cisco's ios...How to get one?

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bigpow

Platinum Member
Dec 10, 2000
2,372
2
81
Wow... this is a though crowd!
Good luck on your exam dude!
Get the certificate and earn some money, then maybe sell more Cisco Routers? LOL
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
Educational use doesn't permit stealing.
It's not stealing if it's for educational use.
If you want to make the argument that using a bootleg copy of an IOS in a home lab is NOT educational use, that's a different issue.


Educational use rights are GRANTED by the owner of the property...
Educational use rights are granted by law, not the owner, which is why it is legal for you to go to the library and photocopy sections of books for research purposes.
Perhaps you want to argue that operating systems aren't covered by fair use laws.
That would be a different argument and since there hasn't been a test case that I'm aware of it might be a valid argument. But you can't dismiss the entire concept of educational use out of hand.


...fair use doesn't even come into play if you haven't bought it.
Sure it does. That's the whole BASIS of fair use and the litmus test is whether or not a person claiming fair use is gaining economic advantage above and beyond merely using the copyrighted material for free.


Post your friend's name, and we'll find out how Cisco feels about "small fish" stealing their software.
Don't be silly.
a) I said that it's UNofficially ignored.
b) Fair Use isn't stealing.


I have no doubts in my mind (S)he'd be out the door in a heartbeat. Cisco doesn't like losing ANY money.
Nobody likes losing money, but I think you're misunderstanding the whole rational behind Fair Use.
I'll give you an example to think about.
I'm very much into cars and I often "steal" pictures posted on corporate websites for the purpose of posting them on BBS's in threads that are discussing those vehicles.
Each of those websites has a statement on it that all material is copyrighted.
But if I hotlinked to a picture of a new car on a thread that's discussing that new car it could arguably be defined as reporting. Furthermore, it amounts to free advertising. But MOST importantly, I am not making any financial gain from the posting of those pictures.


One company stealing hundereds of copies is the same as hundreds of people stealing one copy each.
But is it? I'm not being facetious, I am drawing a distinction between a business using 100 stolen copies of some software in a production environment versus 100 Networking Academy students using copied versions of the IOS to study for the CCNA.
Whether or not you agree with the LEGAL distinction I am making, you must agree that there is a FACTUAL and SITUATIONAL difference.


With Enterprise versions of the IOS costing over a thousand dollars in many cases, it's stealing a fair amount of profit.
Again, you're making the leap to Fair Use being stealing. You might disagree with what I am saying regarding the limits of fair use, but you certainly can't argue that THE SPECIFIC SITUATION we are discussing is clearly not a use that is intended for commercial gain on the part of the user.


Connecting one router to one switch doesn't do much of anything. A two routers is a good start, at least then you can play "routing protocol" and trunking, and QOS, and traffic shaping, and frame relay PP & MP...In that regard, a Router Lab SIM is MUCH better than one router and one switch ...
I agree, which is why simulator software is so cost effective as compared to buying used routers & switches on eBay. But that's not really relevant to the legal distinction we are discussing.


Save your lame excuses for people that don't know any better.
Now that isn't fair. Did I get insulting toward YOU? Then please do me the courtesy of not getting insulting toward ME.
Furthermore, Fair Use isn't a "lame excuse". it's a well established concept in Statutory and Case Law.
You may not agree with my statements regarding the application of Fair Use laws to this particular situation, but you can't simply dismiss those laws out of hand, as if they don't exist at all.
Finally, regardless of whether a Federal Court would agree with me on this issue, I have to tell you, with all due respect, that I don't think you know as much about copyright law as you think you do.
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
In the interest of taking a look at just what it is we are discussing, and demonstrating that I am NOT simply pulling this stuff out of my ass, I give you USC Title 17, Chapter 1, section 107.


Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include ?

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
Fatt
THanks for a defense.
Unfortunately as you can see, on these forums, some people like to bash, thread crapping other people just for a heck of it...
I am positive that CISCO is loosing a lot of money on my ancient 2500 series router and an ancient 2820 Catalyst switch in my home lab.
In fact they are not.
I know what I am doing. Cisco will actually gain a very professional service person, who can configure/service/sell their equipment.
I am not sure, but I have a feeling that some people replying to my thread have taken personally the fact that "another mortal" is entering a Cisco training, which is reserved for these "special uber humans" who have the access to the Cisco's mount Olympus.

Nobody's holding a gun to your head to get this cert.
Thanks buddy, I will remember that....
Jeez, these are the words comming from and Ellite Member?
Rhats a pure Shame.
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
Adlep -

I believe that the others are arguing from a position of good faith and are not simply "bashing" you gratuitously.


I think most people have never bothered to actually READ the law.

I'm also sort of cheating...
I have a legal background that I'm drawing upon and I've never mentioned that to anyone around here before.
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
It's not stealing if it's covered under the Fair Use law.


Spidey...
You or anyone else may disagree with me on the application of the Fair Use law to this situation, but you cannot simply wish away the statutory law that I posted.

If you want to argue the point from a factual perspective, if you have case law that does NOT support the argument I'm making, please bring it forward. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm wrong, providing that you can SHOW me that I'm wrong.
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
Adlep -

A little dignity please?

This is an honest disagreement, not a boxing match.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Fatt
It's not stealing if it's covered under the Fair Use law.


Spidey...
You or anyone else may disagree with me on the application of the Fair Use law to this situation, but you cannot simply wish away the statutory law that I posted.

If you want to argue the point from a factual perspective, if you have case law that does NOT support the argument I'm making, please bring it forward. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm wrong, providing that you can SHOW me that I'm wrong.

So somehow using and installing software that one did not purchase is legal? I'm still scratching my head on that one.

So using and installing windows XP without purchasing it is legal as well? Because I don't see the difference. I really am confused because you're the one with legal experience.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
the gobltigook of Ciscos EULA..

SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT


PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY BEFORE DOWNLOADING, INSTALLING OR USING CISCO OR CISCO-SUPPLIED SOFTWARE.


BY DOWNLOADING OR INSTALLING THE SOFTWARE YOU ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY THIS LICENSE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE, THEN DO NOT DOWNLOAD, INSTALL OR USE THE SOFTWARE.


The following terms govern your use of the Software except to the extent a particular program (a) is the subject of a separate written agreement with Cisco or (b) includes a separate "click-on" license agreement as part of the installation and/or download process. To the extent of a conflict between the provisions of the foregoing documents, the order of precedence shall be (1) the written agreement, (2) the click-on agreement, and (3) this Software License.


License. License. Subject to the terms and conditions of and except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, Cisco Systems, Inc. or the Cisco Systems, Inc. subsidiary licensing the Software, if sale is not directly by Cisco Systems, Inc. ("Cisco"), and its suppliers grant to Customer ("Customer") a nonexclusive and nontransferable license to use the specific Cisco program modules, feature set(s) or feature(s) for which Customer has paid the required license fees (the "Software"), in object code form only. In addition, the foregoing license shall also be subject to the following limitations, as applicable:


Unless otherwise expressly provided in the documentation, Customer shall use the Software solely as embedded in, for execution on, or (where the applicable documentation permits installation on non-Cisco equipment) for communication with Cisco equipment owned or leased by Customer;


Customer's use of the Software shall be limited to use on a single hardware chassis, on a single central processing unit, as applicable, or use on such greater number of chassises or central processing units as Customer may have paid Cisco the required license fee; and


Customer's use of the Software shall also be limited, as applicable and set forth in Customer's purchase order or in Cisco's product catalog, user documentation, or web site, to a maximum number of (a) seats (i.e. users with access to the installed Software), (b) concurrent users, sessions, ports, and/or issued and outstanding IP addresses, and/or (c) central processing unit cycles or instructions per second. Customer's use of the Software shall also be limited by any other restrictions set forth in Customer's purchase order or in Cisco's product catalog, user documentation or web site for the Software.

NOTE: For evaluation or beta copies for which Cisco does not charge a license fee, the above requirement to pay a license fee does not apply.


General Limitations. Except as otherwise expressly provided under this Agreement, Customer shall have no right, and Customer specifically agrees not to:


(i) transfer, assign or sublicense its license rights to any other person, or use the Software on unauthorized or secondhand Cisco equipment, and any such attempted transfer, assignment or sublicense shall be void;


(ii) make error corrections to or otherwise modify or adapt the Software or create derivative works based upon the Software, or to permit third parties to do the same; or.


(iii) decompile, decrypt, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reduce the Software to human-readable form to gain access to trade secrets or confidential information in the Software.


To the extent required by law, at Customer's request, Cisco shall provide Customer with the interface information needed to achieve interoperability between the Software and another independently created program, on payment of Cisco's applicable fee. Customer shall observe strict obligations of confidentiality with respect to such information.


Upgrades and Additional Copies. For purposes of this Agreement, "Software" shall include (and the terms and conditions of this Agreement shall apply to) any upgrades, updates, bug fixes or modified versions (collectively, "Upgrades") or backup copies of the Software licensed or provided to Customer by Cisco or an authorized distributor for which Customer has paid the applicable license fees. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT: (1) CUSTOMER HAS NO LICENSE OR RIGHT TO USE ANY SUCH ADDITIONAL COPIES OR UPGRADES UNLESS CUSTOMER, AT THE TIME OF ACQUIRING SUCH COPY OR UPGRADE, ALREADY HOLDS A VALID LICENSE TO THE ORIGINAL SOFTWARE AND HAS PAID THE APPLICABLE FEE FOR THE UPGRADE; (2) USE OF UPGRADES IS LIMITED TO CISCO EQUIPMENT FOR WHICH CUSTOMER IS THE ORIGINAL END USER PURCHASER OR LESSEE OR WHO OTHERWISE HOLDS A VALID LICENSE TO USE THE SOFTWARE WHICH IS BEING UPGRADED; AND (3) USE OF ADDITIONAL COPIES IS LIMITED TO BACKUP PURPOSES ONLY.


Proprietary Notices. Customer agrees to maintain and reproduce all copyright and other proprietary notices on all copies, in any form, of the Software in the same form and manner that such copyright and other proprietary notices are included on the Software. Except as expressly authorized in this Agreement, Customer shall not make any copies or duplicates or any Software without the prior written permission of Cisco. Customer may make such backup copies of the Software as may be necessary for Customer's lawful use, provided Customer affixes to such copies all copyright, confidentiality, and proprietary notices that appear on the original.


Protection of Information. Customer agrees that aspects of the Software and associated documentation, including the specific design and structure of individual programs, constitute trade secrets and/or copyrighted material of Cisco. Customer shall not disclose, provide, or otherwise make available such trade secrets or copyrighted material in any form to any third party without the prior written consent of Cisco. Customer shall implement reasonable security measures to protect such trade secrets and copyrighted material. Title to Software and documentation shall remain solely with Cisco.


Term and Termination. This License is effective until terminated. Customer may terminate this License at any time by destroying all copies of Software including any documentation. Customer's rights under this License will terminate immediately without notice from Cisco if Customer fails to comply with any provision of this License. Upon termination, Customer must destroy all copies of Software in its possession or control.

Customer Records. Customer grants to Cisco and its independent accountants the right to examine Customer's books, records and accounts during Customer's normal business hours to verify compliance with this Agreement. In the event such audit discloses non-compliance with this Agreement, Customer shall promptly pay to Cisco the appropriate licensee fees.

Export. Software, including technical data, may be subject to U.S. export control laws, including the U.S. Export Administration Act and its associated regulations, and may be subject to export or import regulations in other countries. Customer agrees to comply strictly with all such regulations and acknowledges that it has the responsibility to obtain licenses to export, re-export, or import Software.

U.S. Government End Users. The Software and associated software documentation qualify as "commercial items," as that term is defined at 48 C.F.R. 2.101, consisting of "commercial computer software" and "commercial computer software documentation" as such terms are used in 48 C.F.R. 12.212. Consistent with 48 C.F.R.12.212 and 48 C.F.R. 227.7202-1 through 227.7202-4, Licensee will provide to Government end user, or, if this Agreement is direct Government end user will acquire, the Software and software documentation with only those rights set forth herein that apply to non-governmental customers. Use of this Software and software documentation constitutes agreement by the government entity that the computer software and computer software documentation is commercial, and constitutes acceptance of the rights and restrictions herein.


Limited Warranty.
Cisco Systems, Inc. or the Cisco Systems, Inc. subsidiary licensing the Software, if sale is not directly by Cisco Systems, Inc. ("Cisco") warrants that commencing from the date of delivery to Customer (but in case of resale by a Cisco reseller, commencing not more than ninety (90) days after original shipment by Cisco), and continuing for a period of the longer of (a) ninety (90) days or (b) the period set forth in the Warranty Card accompanying the Product (if any): (a) the media on which the Software is furnished will be free of defects in materials and workmanship under normal use; and (b) the Software substantially conforms to its published specifications. The date of shipment of a Product by Cisco is set forth on the packaging material in which the Product is shipped. Except for the foregoing, the Software is provided AS IS. This limited warranty extends only to the Customer who is the original licensee. Customer's sole and exclusive remedy and the entire liability of Cisco and its suppliers under this limited warranty will be, at Cisco or its service center's option, repair, replacement, or refund of the Software if reported (or, upon request, returned) to the party supplying the Software to Customer, if different than Cisco. In no event does Cisco warrant that the Software is error free or that Customer will be able to operate the Software without problems or interruptions. In addition, due to the continual development of new techniques for intruding upon and attacking networks, Cisco does not warrant that the Software or any equipment, system or network on which the Software is used will be free of vulnerability to intrusion or attack.


Restrictions. This warranty does not apply if the Product (a) has been altered, except by Cisco, (b) has not been installed, operated, repaired, or maintained in accordance with instructions supplied by Cisco, (c) has been subjected to abnormal physical or electrical stress, misuse, negligence, or accident; or (d) is licensed, for beta, evaluation, testing or demonstration purposes for which Cisco does not receive a payment of purchase price or license fee.


DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. EXCEPT AS SPECIFIED IN THIS WARRANTY, ALL EXPRESS OR IMPLIED CONDITIONS, REPRESENTATIONS, AND WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT, SATISFACTORY QUALITY OR ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, LAW, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE, ARE HEREBY EXCLUDED TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY APPLICABLE LAW. TO THE EXTENT AN IMPLIED WARRANTY CANNOT BE EXCLUDED, SUCH WARRANTY IS LIMITED IN DURATION TO THE WARRANTY PERIOD. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG AN IMPLIED WARRANTY LASTS, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS, AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS WHICH VARY FROM JURISDICTION TO JURISDICTION. This disclaimer and exclusion shall apply even if the express warranty set forth above fails of its essential purpose




General Terms Applicable to the Limited Warranty Statement and Software License
Disclaimer of Liabilities. IN NO EVENT WILL CISCO OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOST REVENUE, PROFIT, OR DATA, OR FOR SPECIAL, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES HOWEVER CAUSED AND REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LIABILITY ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE SOFTWARE EVEN IF CISCO OR ITS SUPPLIERS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. In no event shall Cisco's or its suppliers' liability to Customer, whether in contract, tort (including negligence), or otherwise, exceed the price paid by Customer. The foregoing limitations shall apply even if the above-stated warranty fails of its essential purpose. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATION OR EXCLUSION OF CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.


The Warranty and the Software License shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California, without reference to principles of conflict of laws, provided that for Customers located in a member state of the European Union, Norway or Switzerland, English law shall apply. The United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods shall not apply. If any portion hereof is found to be void or unenforceable, the remaining provisions of the Warranty and the Software License shall remain in full force and effect. Except as expressly provided herein, the Software License constitutes the entire agreement between the parties with respect to the license of the Software and supersedes any conflicting or additional terms contained in the purchase order


If Customer has entered into a contract directly with Cisco for supply of the Products subject to this warranty, the terms of that contract shall supersede any terms of this Warranty or the Warranty Card, or the Software License, which are inconsistent with that contract. Customer acknowledges that: the Internet URL address and the web pages referred to in this document may be updated by Cisco from time to time; the version in effect at the date of delivery of the Products to the Customer shall apply.




Accept Decline
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
This seems pretty cut and dry to me...

NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT: (1) CUSTOMER HAS NO LICENSE OR RIGHT TO USE ANY SUCH ADDITIONAL COPIES OR UPGRADES UNLESS CUSTOMER, AT THE TIME OF ACQUIRING SUCH COPY OR UPGRADE, ALREADY HOLDS A VALID LICENSE TO THE ORIGINAL SOFTWARE AND HAS PAID THE APPLICABLE FEE FOR THE UPGRADE; (2) USE OF UPGRADES IS LIMITED TO CISCO EQUIPMENT FOR WHICH CUSTOMER IS THE ORIGINAL END USER PURCHASER OR LESSEE OR WHO OTHERWISE HOLDS A VALID LICENSE TO USE THE SOFTWARE WHICH IS BEING UPGRADED; AND (3) USE OF ADDITIONAL COPIES IS LIMITED TO BACKUP PURPOSES ONLY.
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
Spidey -

Where people often get confused on this issue as it pertains to ALL copyrighted material of ANY type, is what constitutes "Fair Use"

As a matter of Public Policy, US copyright law recognizes that it is in the public interest to make allowances for non-commercial use of copyrighted material in certain limited circumstances.

I'll give you an example of where the fine line is, which may help to convey the concept.

If you take a book into Kinko's (Kinko's is a store that provides copying services to the general public.) and ask them to photocopy a chapter for you so that you may study that chapter, they will refuse.
The reason they refuse is because they are charging for the copying service so they ARE making a financial gain from the copying of material, so thay CANNOT claim shelter under the exemption granted in United States Code, Title 17.
However, they will show you how to use one of the public use machines in the store and YOU can make those copies because YOU are the one protected under that statute.

The basic litmus test for whether or not Fair Use applies in any situation is whether or not the person claiming Fair Use protection is making any money on the use of the material.
EDIT: Not making money on the copying of said material is NOT the final test when making a determination. If I were to make pirate copies of the IOS and give them to end users for free I could not claim protection under fair use because the intention of the Fair Use law in terms of educational use is intended for the benefit of the STUDENT, not end users. The money test is simply the FIRST question that must be asked, and the totality of the circumstance must be considered.


It becomes a little fuzzier when you are talking about software because you get into the question of whether you are an END USER or a student.

The way the law is written, which is how the courts MUST deal with it, the use of a "bootleg" copy of an IOS on equipment that Cisco considers to be obsolete, in an environment that is demonstrably a LAB, intended for STUDY and not "end" or commercial use, is arguably exactly the sort of situation intended to be covered under the Fair Use provisions of copyright law.

In the interests of intellectual honesty, I can offer NO guarantees that an actual federal Court would agree with my interpretation of the law in this situation, but as there is no specific case law on this issue that I am aware of the Court would have no choice but to look at the plain text of the statute.

And the plain text DOES define protection for Fair Use. There is no getting around that.

The only REAL question is whether this specific situation would be found to be fair use.


READ THIS PART:
The reality of this argument is that what Adlep is doing is NOT clear-cut stealing in the way that taking someone's car is.
There absolutely IS such a thing as Fair Use, and it DOES protect educational use of copyrighted material.
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
By the way...

Maybe it's time to move this thread to another forum?

I only suggest that because I feel a little guilty discussing LEGAL issues in a TECHNICAL forum.
 

Oaf357

Senior member
Sep 2, 2001
956
0
0
Ahh... but it's a technical legal issue. Which are becoming a more common occurrence these days.

Actually, I'm curious as to what can solve this problem. What I would like to do is get all the facts together and get Cisco's opinion (no names of course), but if Adlep wouldn't mind e-mailing/IMing/PMing me with all the information I will gladly contact Cisco through my CCO account and get their answer.
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
Actually, a more practical REAL WORLD solution would be to see if an evaluation copy is available.

Most software vendors provide eval copies specifically to address this issue, as well as to avoid getting a definitive answer in court. (Because definitive answers are a two edged sword.)
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
Most software vendors provide eval copies specifically to address this issue, as well as to avoid getting a definitive answer in court. (Because definitive answers are a two edged sword.)
I think that if you are enrolled in some sort of training program. for example
Cisco's networking academy, they are providing all of the software.
I am a freelance guy. I am not taking any class, course, just a book...
 

bigpow

Platinum Member
Dec 10, 2000
2,372
2
81
Originally posted by: reicherb
How do you post the same thing 9 times? I can understand twice, but 9???

Dunno dudes... Sorry I guess
I swear, I only clicked send once!

 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
0
0
Originally posted by: Fatt
In the interest of taking a look at just what it is we are discussing, and demonstrating that I am NOT simply pulling this stuff out of my ass, I give you USC Title 17, Chapter 1, section 107.


Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include ?

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

I tend to follow the "who gives a fvck" school of thought on piracy, because I vehemently disagree with the idea that you should blindly follow/promote/ad hoc enforce every law that exists, and I am also realistic about the situation -- piracy will NEVER EVER go away, so it is futile and a complete waste of time and energy to whine about it, unless you have a vested interest in some "intellectual property", in which case it's still usually futile. That said -- I am not arguing with you, Fatt, but I noticed you did not make mention of (2) or (3). "The nature of the copyrighted work" is pretty damn vague, in fact that's completely open-ended. Is there some definition or categorization of the "natures" of "works" elsewhere? Also, it mentions the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the whole -- in this scenario, adlep is using the ENTIRE copyrighted work, so based on those two things, I don't think he is covered under fair use. But then again, I don't really know anything about this stuff compared to you, so feel free to point out where I'm wrong here.
 

Fatt

Senior member
Dec 6, 2001
339
0
0
As I mentioned, the use of an entire copyrighted work does not automatically invalidate protection under the Fair Use law.

That's already supported in a variety of case law.

Don't bother looking it up, it's boring.

Nature of the work would go, in this situation, to the fact that the IOS version and the router it's on are both obsolete.

(Since Cisco uses a different version of it's IOS for every piece of equipment it sells, even a current version can be obsolete if it's meant for a piece of obsolete equipment.)

So the court would look at it and see the following:

1) It's clearly for educational, not production or end use.
2) The nature of the work is that it's obsolete software running on obsolete hardware..
3) It is appropriate for the work to be used as a whole, since it wouldn't work any other way.
4) The use of the material would in the worst case be zero, since Cisco has moved onto other products and in the best case positive, since Cisco techs like to buy and install cisco equipment.

It's hard to know what a court will do in advance, but it is something you can predict with a fair degree of accuracy, if you know how the system works.