more often than not, expectations are wrong, the japanese companies entered the market right as it was tanking. when the economy turns around i will again be the cars that will drive the big-jap3 bak to profitability, not its failed suv/truck endeavor.
i think thats the entire concept of the criticism of chrysler. both GM an Ford have good balance in their portfolios, chrysler, not so much.
Chrysler made plenty of profits in 2004-2006. Instead of sticking to what they are good at, liberals want to make them produce a bunch of garbage.
One other point... Toyota is still at a net loss for their much revered Prius. The main reason they can afford to sell it is because of their other profitable cars/trucks.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
The US companies have a hard time making small cars at a profit due to the high factory costs in UAW run plants.
I know Toyota and Honda both make small cars in the US. Perhaps they are losing money on those cars as well? Or perhaps it is the large volume of those cars that allows them to offset the cost of making them etc etc.
Perhaps the solution for Chrysler is to make the big cars in the US and import small cars via Fiat etc.
dphantom
Diamond Member
- Jan 14, 2005
- 4,763
- 327
- 126
Which brings up another point. There are such things as loss leaders. And as a product gains acceptance, it becomes less expensive to produce. Say like LCD tvs. The first one I ever say years ago was $25,000 - I think it was a 40" or something. Now I can get one for $500.
Not the same with cars, I understand but the point I am trying to make is.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
??? Ford makes a profit on the Focus, it's a good car in the segment, and it's selling very well. Ford is bringing the Fiesta out (subcompact 40mpg). They're not just doing this to help their fleet with CAFE bullshit, they're doing it because there's a demand for quality small cars, and it's nice to see a US carmaker with a competitive product finally.
The old Neons, Escorts, and Cadavaliers were no match for Civic and Corolla in comfort, features, safety, reliability, and so on. Now when you compare a Cobalt to a Corolla, or a Focus to a Civic, you find a much more level playing ground, with the cars trading top marks in various categories.
cubeless
Diamond Member
- Sep 17, 2001
- 4,295
- 1
- 81
the concept of 'loss leader' doesn't work as well with cars:
1) unlike the supermarket, you don't buy a bunch of other stuff to help make up for it
2) it leads to the car salesman being reviled for upselling you
3) there's very little brand loyalty any more
4) if you sell a lot of loss leaders you just have loss... (like when gas got expensive)...
the domestics are in trouble... will be interesting to see what happens when gm goes into bankruptcy...
the next thread should be : why do we need 'american' car companies... don't we just want the cars to be made here to provide employment? who cares who's the boss? bo can make it so expensive to import cars that all production (not just the large amount already being done) would have to be done here...
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
Drako
Lifer
- Jun 9, 2007
- 10,697
- 161
- 106
Indeed - do the math and figure out what the gas price threshold would be for you to have it make sense. I did this exercise last year when my wife and I were looking at cars.
It would have taken us more than 7 years to make up just the initial cost of the vehicle at $4.00/gallon. This was not taking into account extra repair/insurance/registration costs of a hybrid vehicle.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
Maybe. Escapes are pretty affordable, as are Mariner and Highlander (for what you get). We dont know his price range though. But to say there arent any available is wrong. Im sure there will be a qualifying follow-up post explaining why these arent viable for him.
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
- 8,595
- 126
4 wagons and 1 proper SUV.
not sure if any of them are 4wd either.
anyway, iirc, chrysler co-developed the 2-mode hybrid with GM. not sure why they've not done anything with it yet in the consumer space.
toyota develops hybrid system which, even at $4 a gallon, likely will never be recouped by the consumer, gets praised.
GM develops hybrid system which at basically any price will be recouped by the consumer (the bus companies which easily rack up 100s of miles per day), gets ignored.
awesome.
focus is hecho in mexico. so was neon, iirc.
dodge caliber is an ugly fwd compact wagon. in no way, shape, or form could anyone call it an SUV. it has a nissan transmission, a hyundai engine, and shares its platform with the mitsubishi lancer (as do the jeep compass and patriot, neither of which are SUVs).
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
- 8,595
- 126
depreciation hasn't necessarily been any better, and is often worse. it can be a crap shoot. you also need to consider that there may be higher finance charges because the factory doesn't need to use finance incentives, on top of the fact that more has to be financed because of the higher price. insurance costs may be higher or lower as well.
Yup the closest to a hybrid making economic sense is when our gas prices skyrocket in the $6-7 range. Then you'll start to recoup the Prius gas mileage advantages. The cheapest hybrid coming out if from Honda with their $20K Insight would recoup it's higher cost much faster than a $25-$30K prius.
This bugs on how there's so much hype on GM's $40K volt, unless they cut that car's price in half it will be stillborn.
BTW the tax credits expired over a year ago lol.
Yeah, and while I don't like them being told what to do, if anything, they need a kick in the butt. Chrysler just doesn't seem to get it. You can say Daimler didn't help them at all at the end, but still. Sure, they have a few vehicles you can expect we'll always see (Cherokee, Wrangler and Ram), but as a whole, Chrysler's line is terrible. They don't have a competitive midsize sedan, which is essential. I hope the Fiat deal goes through though. The Fiat Punto Grande would be a great replacement for the Calibur. A small car that actually looks good.
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