Chrysler tech center workers may have lost jobs to H-1B contractors

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Union jobs are stupid. I have worked with H1B workers in tech and these days they are making plenty of coin. They are by no means indentured. I've worked next to them in the exact same role making the same money. Now, you can ALWAYS hire American if you want to pay a lot, but given the lack of H1B workers now and the current climate in IT, which is good (unlike 7 years ago), just because a firm is hiring H1B it doesn't mean it's undercutting. It could very possibly hire Americans at a simliar wage (probably not the same because, face it, it is somewhat of a hassle hiring H1B as you deal with immigration issues, for example, so that affects their marketability) but perhaps hasn't. The issue here is not the H1Bs, it's the laid off workers who are now having to compete on the open market and losing their artificial job security.

Face it, H1Bs are a non-issue. They represent a pitiful percentage of workers and most of them are well educated and a net gain for this country, quite unlike the magnitudes more numerous people without highschool degrees who come in illegally. They should be the real target of immigration concern.

They should only be allowed in when there is a shortage of qualified Americans available for those jobs. When there's no shortage they should be sent home as in this case.

You seem to have a clear cut case of "It all depends on whose bull is being gored".

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: neodyn55

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
This is the result of H1-B workers being too cheap, and UAW workers being too expensive. IMO they need to cease all H1-B applications in the tech sector. That need is a long gone relic from the 90's.

Don't tar all H1 holders with the same feather. I know lots that get paid well above market wage for the jobs they do.

Of course, all of them have studies here at either the undergraduate or graduate level.

By means of a blanket ban, you would be ridding these people as well.

They arrived here on a guest visa to fill a temporary shortfall in a targeted industry. Once that shortfall is over, said visa should be cancelled. I know it doesnt sound fair, but America needs to look out for Americans first.

Tell that to the amnesty crowd who is in this thread whining about immigrants.

OK you got your shot at the "Amnesty Crowd". Good for you, now what do you think of the situation where guest workers are taling jobs away from Americans so Corporations can make even more profit?

I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we can allow millions of Mexicans into the US to do construction, then we can allow millions of Indians here to do white collar jobs.

My best friend is a carpenter and has been scrounging for work the last couple years. He repeatedly gets outbid by contractors who have teams of Mexicans working for fast food wages. So a couple of white collar workers get replaced by Indians and I'm supposed to care? Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. Stop voting for politicians who pander to the illegals and the corporations and maybe I'll be sympathetic. America is getting exactly what it votes for.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just an RPB.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Union jobs are stupid. I have worked with H1B workers in tech and these days they are making plenty of coin. They are by no means indentured. I've worked next to them in the exact same role making the same money. Now, you can ALWAYS hire American if you want to pay a lot, but given the lack of H1B workers now and the current climate in IT, which is good (unlike 7 years ago), just because a firm is hiring H1B it doesn't mean it's undercutting. It could very possibly hire Americans at a simliar wage (probably not the same because, face it, it is somewhat of a hassle hiring H1B as you deal with immigration issues, for example, so that affects their marketability) but perhaps hasn't. The issue here is not the H1Bs, it's the laid off workers who are now having to compete on the open market and losing their artificial job security.

Face it, H1Bs are a non-issue. They represent a pitiful percentage of workers and most of them are well educated and a net gain for this country, quite unlike the magnitudes more numerous people without highschool degrees who come in illegally. They should be the real target of immigration concern.

They should only be allowed in when there is a shortage of qualified Americans available for those jobs. When there's no shortage they should be sent home as in this case.

You seem to have a clear cut case of "It all depends on whose bull is being gored".

Explain.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: neodyn55

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
This is the result of H1-B workers being too cheap, and UAW workers being too expensive. IMO they need to cease all H1-B applications in the tech sector. That need is a long gone relic from the 90's.

Don't tar all H1 holders with the same feather. I know lots that get paid well above market wage for the jobs they do.

Of course, all of them have studies here at either the undergraduate or graduate level.

By means of a blanket ban, you would be ridding these people as well.

They arrived here on a guest visa to fill a temporary shortfall in a targeted industry. Once that shortfall is over, said visa should be cancelled. I know it doesnt sound fair, but America needs to look out for Americans first.

Tell that to the amnesty crowd who is in this thread whining about immigrants.

OK you got your shot at the "Amnesty Crowd". Good for you, now what do you think of the situation where guest workers are taling jobs away from Americans so Corporations can make even more profit?

I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we can allow millions of Mexicans into the US to do construction, then we can allow millions of Indians here to do white collar jobs.

My best friend is a carpenter and has been scrounging for work the last couple years. He repeatedly gets outbid by contractors who have teams of Mexicans working for fast food wages. So a couple of white collar workers get replaced by Indians and I'm supposed to care? Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. Stop voting for politicians who pander to the illegals and the corporations and maybe I'll be sympathetic. America is getting exactly what it votes for.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just an RPB.

I don't think we should allow Mexican Guest workers in to do Construction when there are plenty of Americans here that are available to do the work. If they are illegal those who employ them should have the book thrown at them.

 

[1EZduzit]

How can they be sent home, these workers are here legally?

Who is going to decide what a shortage is, when it starts and when it ends?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
How can they be sent home, these workers are here legally?

Who is going to decide what a shortage is, when it starts and when it ends?

If they are laying off Americans that do the same job as they do then it's time for them to go, especially if the only reason they are still employed is if they are making less. They aren't legal immigrants, they are guest workers.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Union jobs are stupid. I have worked with H1B workers in tech and these days they are making plenty of coin. They are by no means indentured. I've worked next to them in the exact same role making the same money. Now, you can ALWAYS hire American if you want to pay a lot, but given the lack of H1B workers now and the current climate in IT, which is good (unlike 7 years ago), just because a firm is hiring H1B it doesn't mean it's undercutting. It could very possibly hire Americans at a simliar wage (probably not the same because, face it, it is somewhat of a hassle hiring H1B as you deal with immigration issues, for example, so that affects their marketability) but perhaps hasn't. The issue here is not the H1Bs, it's the laid off workers who are now having to compete on the open market and losing their artificial job security.

Face it, H1Bs are a non-issue. They represent a pitiful percentage of workers and most of them are well educated and a net gain for this country, quite unlike the magnitudes more numerous people without highschool degrees who come in illegally. They should be the real target of immigration concern.

They should only be allowed in when there is a shortage of qualified Americans available for those jobs. When there's no shortage they should be sent home as in this case.

You seem to have a clear cut case of "It all depends on whose bull is being gored".

Explain.

I don't recall you railing against the uneducated illegal immigrants in those threads, but you seem to be quite passionate about these workers?

I personally would rather have the educated ones here and send the ones who can't speak English home.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Tell that to the amnesty crowd who is in this thread whining about immigrants.

OK you got your shot at the "Amnesty Crowd". Good for you, now what do you think of the situation where guest workers are taling jobs away from Americans so Corporations can make even more profit?

I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we can allow millions of Mexicans into the US to do construction, then we can allow millions of Indians here to do white collar jobs.

My best friend is a carpenter and has been scrounging for work the last couple years. He repeatedly gets outbid by contractors who have teams of Mexicans working for fast food wages. So a couple of white collar workers get replaced by Indians and I'm supposed to care? Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. Stop voting for politicians who pander to the illegals and the corporations and maybe I'll be sympathetic. America is getting exactly what it votes for.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just an RPB.

I don't think we should allow Mexican Guest workers in to do Construction when there are plenty of Americans here that are available to do the work. If they are illegal those who employ them should have the book thrown at them.

You obviously hate Mexicans. What are you, a Republican?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
How can they be sent home, these workers are here legally?

Who is going to decide what a shortage is, when it starts and when it ends?

If they are laying off Americans that do the same job as they do then it's time for them to go, especially if the only reason they are still employed is if they are making less. They aren't legal immigrants, they are guest workers.

Maybe they laid off the American workers because they were "lazy" and didn't want to work?

Do you live in a right-to-work state? If not you should try it for a while, it's quite educating.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Union jobs are stupid. I have worked with H1B workers in tech and these days they are making plenty of coin. They are by no means indentured. I've worked next to them in the exact same role making the same money. Now, you can ALWAYS hire American if you want to pay a lot, but given the lack of H1B workers now and the current climate in IT, which is good (unlike 7 years ago), just because a firm is hiring H1B it doesn't mean it's undercutting. It could very possibly hire Americans at a simliar wage (probably not the same because, face it, it is somewhat of a hassle hiring H1B as you deal with immigration issues, for example, so that affects their marketability) but perhaps hasn't. The issue here is not the H1Bs, it's the laid off workers who are now having to compete on the open market and losing their artificial job security.

Face it, H1Bs are a non-issue. They represent a pitiful percentage of workers and most of them are well educated and a net gain for this country, quite unlike the magnitudes more numerous people without highschool degrees who come in illegally. They should be the real target of immigration concern.

They should only be allowed in when there is a shortage of qualified Americans available for those jobs. When there's no shortage they should be sent home as in this case.

You seem to have a clear cut case of "It all depends on whose bull is being gored".

Explain.

I don't recall you railing against the uneducated illegal immigrants in those threads, but you seem to be quite passionate about these workers?

I personally would rather have the educated ones here and send the ones who can't speak English home.

I'm for shipping out all illegal Aliens no matter what education level they are at. I also don't have a problem with guest workers as long as they aren't taking American jobs. If there is a shortage they import them but if there isn't a shortag , as in this case, then they shouldn't be kept on and American workers let go just because the guest workers are cheaper to employ.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Tell that to the amnesty crowd who is in this thread whining about immigrants.

OK you got your shot at the "Amnesty Crowd". Good for you, now what do you think of the situation where guest workers are taling jobs away from Americans so Corporations can make even more profit?

I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we can allow millions of Mexicans into the US to do construction, then we can allow millions of Indians here to do white collar jobs.

My best friend is a carpenter and has been scrounging for work the last couple years. He repeatedly gets outbid by contractors who have teams of Mexicans working for fast food wages. So a couple of white collar workers get replaced by Indians and I'm supposed to care? Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. Stop voting for politicians who pander to the illegals and the corporations and maybe I'll be sympathetic. America is getting exactly what it votes for.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just an RPB.

I don't think we should allow Mexican Guest workers in to do Construction when there are plenty of Americans here that are available to do the work. If they are illegal those who employ them should have the book thrown at them.

You obviously hate Mexicans. What are you, a Republican?

Yeah right:roll:

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
How can they be sent home, these workers are here legally?

Who is going to decide what a shortage is, when it starts and when it ends?

If they are laying off Americans that do the same job as they do then it's time for them to go, especially if the only reason they are still employed is if they are making less. They aren't legal immigrants, they are guest workers.

Maybe they laid off the American workers because they were "lazy" and didn't want to work?

Do you live in a right-to-work state? If not you should try it for a while, it's quite educating.

What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about guest workers imported here to do the work because of a shortage of Americans qualified to do the work. If there are Americans who are qualified and are willing to do the work there is no need for them and they should return to their country.

 

[Atreus21]

I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products in order to be competitive, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products in order to be competitive, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

Yeah but these are guest workers, not legal immigrants and their purpose for being isn't to make the company money by working for lower wages.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products in order to be competitive, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

Yeah but these are guest workers, not legal immigrants and their purpose for being isn't to make the company money by working for lower wages.

Admittedly, I didn't read the article. Why did the company hire them if not for lower wages?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products in order to be competitive, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

Yeah but these are guest workers, not legal immigrants and their purpose for being isn't to make the company money by working for lower wages.

Admittedly, I didn't read the article. Why did the company hire them if not for lower wages?

Because at the time there was a shortage of Americans qualified to do the job. Now qualified Americans are being laid off and the guest workers are being kept on because they are cheaper.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products in order to be competitive, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

Yeah but these are guest workers, not legal immigrants and their purpose for being isn't to make the company money by working for lower wages.

Admittedly, I didn't read the article. Why did the company hire them if not for lower wages?

Because at the time there was a shortage of Americans qualified to do the job. Now qualified Americans are being laid off and the guest workers are being kept on because they are cheaper.

But they are cheaper. That's my point. Cheaper labor means cheaper product prices, unless the company doesn't want to remain competitive.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
How can they be sent home, these workers are here legally?

Who is going to decide what a shortage is, when it starts and when it ends?

If they are laying off Americans that do the same job as they do then it's time for them to go, especially if the only reason they are still employed is if they are making less. They aren't legal immigrants, they are guest workers.

Maybe they laid off the American workers because they were "lazy" and didn't want to work?

Do you live in a right-to-work state? If not you should try it for a while, it's quite educating.

What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about guest workers imported here to do the work because of a shortage of Americans qualified to do the work. If there are Americans who are qualified and are willing to do the work there is no need for them and they should return to their country.

It would seem most of America disagrees with you, based on their voting history.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

Fine but you don't use guest workers to force Americans to work for lower wages. The only reason guest workers are imported is to fill the need because there aren't qualifed Amrican Workers to do the job. That not the case in this situation.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

Fine but you don't use guest workers to force Americans to work for lower wages. The only reason guest workers are imported is to fill the need because there aren't qualifed Amrican Workers to do the job. That not the case in this situation.

Sorry that was a double post of mine. The real response is in its place now.

I still stick to the fact that forcing prices down is part of capitalism, simply because that's the nature of competition. Yes, it will force Americans out of business and out of work, but that only means they need to reallocate to another profession.

Sorry, I'm right in the middle of a rudimentary micro-economics class, so all this is fresh on my mind, and I'm thinking in terms of the basics. I think my teacher told me a statistic, interestingly, that people who were forced to reallocate after being laid off by cheaper wage employees were found to have better incomes in their new job. Of course, that's just on the word of my teacher. I don't have a source.

Personally, I've accepted the fact that capitalism is ruthless, and that it has to be. Comparitive advantage means we should do what we do best, and others should do what they do best. Consider how many Chinese or Mexican heart surgeons are either out of work or underpaid because American heart surgeons are among the world's finest. (That's another econ class statistic. Apparently the US is very good at surgery, probably because of a technological advantage.)

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

Fine but you don't use guest workers to force Americans to work for lower wages. The only reason guest workers are imported is to fill the need because there aren't qualifed Amrican Workers to do the job. That not the case in this situation.

Sorry that was a double post of mine. The real response is in its place now.

So you are saying that we should import guest workers because they are willing to work for pennies on the dollar even if that means it will cost Americans jobs?

Keep in mind these aren't legal immigrants.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I sympathize with the workers who were laid off. But like it or not, lower wages to employees means the company can lower prices on products, which means the consumer will save money. I don't say all employees should be paid dirt. I say that companies, just like consumers, will look for the lowest price for a product (in this case labor), and that's a good thing.

Fine but you don't use guest workers to force Americans to work for lower wages. The only reason guest workers are imported is to fill the need because there aren't qualifed Amrican Workers to do the job. That not the case in this situation.

Sorry that was a double post of mine. The real response is in its place now.

So you are saying that we should import guest workers because they are willing to work for pennies on the dollar even if that means it will cost Americans jobs?

Keep in mind these aren't legal immigrants.

I'm not saying what we should or should not do. I'm saying that, within the confines of the law, companies are wise to find the cheapest labor available, because it benefits both the company and the consumer. If the company is employing people illegally, well, that's an external issue economically speaking, and law enforcement has to rectify that.

 

[Genx87]

it's just totally wrong. It seems as if they just want to get rid of union people.

Gee thanks for pointing that out capt obvious.

 

[TheSlamma]

Not like that company would ever get my support anyway. Nothing would make me buy a Junksler product. And fuck that HEMI impostor to boot.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Union jobs are stupid. I have worked with H1B workers in tech and these days they are making plenty of coin. They are by no means indentured. I've worked next to them in the exact same role making the same money. Now, you can ALWAYS hire American if you want to pay a lot, but given the lack of H1B workers now and the current climate in IT, which is good (unlike 7 years ago), just because a firm is hiring H1B it doesn't mean it's undercutting. It could very possibly hire Americans at a simliar wage (probably not the same because, face it, it is somewhat of a hassle hiring H1B as you deal with immigration issues, for example, so that affects their marketability) but perhaps hasn't. The issue here is not the H1Bs, it's the laid off workers who are now having to compete on the open market and losing their artificial job security.

Face it, H1Bs are a non-issue. They represent a pitiful percentage of workers and most of them are well educated and a net gain for this country, quite unlike the magnitudes more numerous people without highschool degrees who come in illegally. They should be the real target of immigration concern.

They should only be allowed in when there is a shortage of qualified Americans available for those jobs. When there's no shortage they should be sent home as in this case.

You seem to have a clear cut case of "It all depends on whose bull is being gored".

Explain.

I don't recall you railing against the uneducated illegal immigrants in those threads, but you seem to be quite passionate about these workers?

I personally would rather have the educated ones here and send the ones who can't speak English home.

I'm for shipping out all illegal Aliens no matter what education level they are at. I also don't have a problem with guest workers as long as they aren't taking American jobs. If there is a shortage they import them but if there isn't a shortag , as in this case, then they shouldn't be kept on and American workers let go just because the guest workers are cheaper to employ.

To start with they only brought in the illegal Mexican workers to pick the fruit and vegtables because they were willing to work so much cheaper (because of the strong dollar and difference in the cost of living between Mexico/US). People turned a blind eye to it because it meant cheaper food.

Then the border states got greedy and started hiring them to mow their lawns, nanny their kids, clean their pools, etc. They got away with that so they started using them to do other undesireable jobs at low wages and the whole thing snowballed into the problem we have now.

Is anybody surprised that now we have educated people wanting to stay here? I know I'm not and if you are you shouldn't be, it was only a matter of time. Until WE are willing to tackle the WHOLE problem all I can say is:

Welcome to my nightmare
I think you're gonna like it
I think you're gonna feel that you belong
We sweat laugh and scream here
'cuz life is just a dream here
You know inside you feel right at home here
Welcome to my nightmare
Welcome to my breakdown
Yeah