christopher hitchens

[buckshot24]

No, the definition of reason is coming to an answer that is based on facts, not opinions or beliefs.

How do you think life got started on this planet? Is it rational to believe that unguided chemistry did it, somehow, while every experiment done to try and prove that has failed?

 

[jackstar7]

How do you think life got started on this planet? Is it rational to believe that unguided chemistry did it, somehow, while every experiment done to try and prove that has failed?

That idea doesn't exist in a vacuum. And compared to other ideas on the subject, it presents as vastly more rational.

Particularly in comparison to ideas that are not testable at all.

 

[TheSlamma]

How do you think life got started on this planet? Is it rational to believe that unguided chemistry did it, somehow, while every experiment done to try and prove that has failed?

1: I don't need the data on how the planet was created to use sense and reason.

2: That is really just a religious burden so you guys can feel better about yourselves.

3: Personally I have never really put much thought into it, would it change my views on how healthcare should be handled in this country? NO

4: Have we lost all respect for mother nature that we really think we can just replicate it in a lab and that it would be "just that easy"? Monsanto gave it their best try with Round-up ready seed that you just spray the whole area with roundup and everything but the roundup ready plant dies... well except for the .1% that has adapted an immunity, now we have superweeds that drink roundup and grow up big and strong and nothing phases them. Guess what, I respect nature and what it is capable of, still doesn't mean an intelligent being made it.

 

[buckshot24]

That idea doesn't exist in a vacuum. And compared to other ideas on the subject, it presents as vastly more rational.

Particularly in comparison to ideas that are not testable at all.

How many failures will it take to realize it didn't happen by unguided processes?

But thank you for admitting that science doesn't inform your opinion on this subject.

 

[fskimospy]

How many failures will it take to realize it didn't happen by unguided processes?

But thank you for admitting that science doesn't inform your opinion on this subject.

Why would any number of failures in the lab lead us to conclude that it was a guided process?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[buckshot24]

1: I don't need the data on how the planet was created to use sense and reason.

I asked a very direct and basic question. Is it rational to believe that some mysterious unguided process started life or not?

2: That is really just a religious burden so you guys can feel better about yourselves.

Thank you for your opinion but is it rational to believe in natural unguided abiogenesis?

3: Personally I have never really put much thought into it, would it change my views on how healthcare should be handled in this country? NO

Good, but is it rational to believe it?

 

[TheSlamma]

How many failures will it take to realize it didn't happen by unguided processes?

Until guided or unguided is proven.

On one side we have faith on the other side we have theory, neither being a synonym of FACT.

Theory thankfully when proven wrong you move on to the next one, faith once it gets questioned.. well things get messy.

 

[buckshot24]

Until guided or unguided is proven.

On one side we have faith on the other side we have theory, neither being a synonym of FACT.

Faith is on both sides. There isn't a shred of evidence to support the "theory" and you do that term injustice by using it for the origin of life.

 

[jackstar7]

How many failures will it take to realize it didn't happen by unguided processes?

But thank you for admitting that science doesn't inform your opinion on this subject.

Oh. So you don't use logic to reach conclusions. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[TheSlamma]

I asked a very direct and basic question. Is it rational to believe that some mysterious unguided process started life or not?
Thank you for your opinion but is it rational to believe in natural unguided abiogenesis?
Good, but is it rational to believe it?

If it gets proven as fact eventually then yes. Until then it is a....

Theory
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

This is where we will not get any further in this conversation because again, you NEED the answer to be that an invisible man made it.. I don't need it to be anything. You pine for an answer.. you can't live without it, you can't understand why anyone else can blow it off and not care.. well guess what, and please note that I use the term correctly..

I COULDN'T (meaning no room left) care less. Again we face no issues today that are dependent on a rational answer to that question.

 

[buckshot24]

Oh. So you don't use logic to reach conclusions. Thanks for clarifying.

There is no logic in that statement and you've admitted science isn't the reason you accept a natural unguided origin of life.

 

[buckshot24]

If it gets proven as fact eventually then yes. Until then it is a....

Not sure how we'd determine it was a fact but ok.

Theory
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

This isn't falsifiable so this doesn't apply. This is axiomatic.

This is where we will not get any further in this conversation because again, you NEED the answer to be that an invisible man made it.. I don't need it to be anything.

So you're fine with it being my version? If not then you do need it to be something.

You pine for an answer.. you can't live without it, you can't understand why anyone else can blow it off and not care.. well guess what, and please note that I use the term correctly..

I disagree but I won't belabor the point. I can totally understand why you'd blow this off, you don't have a leg to stand on. I'd blow it off too if I were you.

I COULDN'T (meaning no room left) care less. Again we face no issues today that are dependent on a rational answer to that question.

So are you saying it isn't rational to believe unguided chemistry started life off?

 

[Moonbeam]

No, the definition of reason is coming to an answer that is based on facts, not opinions or beliefs.

If Moonbeam says the earth is flat, then I post this pic

and call him irrational.

Your GOP party you hate so bad keeps being irrational with Climate change.. "Never mind ice caps shrinking, deserts where swamps once were, reefs collapsing, we have no data on this I just don't see it"

The RATIONAL people are looking at that data and saying yes we are seeing change.

The people you call irrational here, are looking at the same data ad saying, no change. How do I know which is irrational?

 

[TheSlamma]

Not sure how we'd determine it was a fact but ok.
This isn't falsifiable so this doesn't apply. This is axiomatic.
So you're fine with it being my version? If not then you do need it to be something.
I disagree but I won't belabor the point. I can totally understand why you'd blow this off, you don't have a leg to stand on. I'd blow it off too if I were you.
So are you saying it isn't rational to believe unguided chemistry started life off?

Thanks for making my point. Exactly as I said, you simply can't accept that some people simply don't care how the earth came about and I don't need it to be a god or not one in order to answer a question I have.

You are inventing an argument that only you are part of.

 

[buckshot24]

Thanks for making my point. Exactly as I said, you simply can't accept that some people simply don't care how the earth came about and I don't need it to be a god or not one in order to answer a question I have.

You are inventing an argument that only you are part of.

I'm sure you don't care and I ACCEPT that. If I was in your shoes I'd put my head in the sand as well.

 

[TheSlamma]

The people you call irrational here, are looking at the same data ad saying, no change. How do I know which is irrational?

how about you answer post 189 in "what would be the best way to eliminate isis/al qued" that way we can make the point you are asking a circular question you will never have the answer you want.

 

[TheSlamma]

I'm sure you don't care and I ACCEPT that. If I was in your shoes I'd put my head in the sand as well.

Why the insult? I just don't understand why you have to insult me like this?

 

[buckshot24]

Why the insult? I just don't understand why you have to insult me like this?

That isn't an insult.

 

[TheSlamma]

That isn't an insult.

Yes it is, you are calling me a liar as you are insinuating that I do actually care about where life comes from but I don't want to participate in your Science vs God creation debate because science hasn't proven it yet.

Sorry, but my head isn't in the sand, I simply don't give a shit.

If science eventually figures it out, it will be great for the people who do care, I'm concerned with a cure for diseases and renewable energy.

Edit: maybe that is where we should go, instead of chemotherapy should we dump all that and just use prayers? does that sound rational?

 

[Moonbeam]

how about you answer post 189 in "what would be the best way to eliminate isis/al qued" that way we can make the point you are asking a circular question you will never have the answer you want.

But I know exactly how to tell if somebody is mentally healthy. They can tell me what rational is.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes it is, you are calling me a liar as you are insinuating that I do actually care about where life comes from but I don't want to participate in your Science vs God creation debate because science hasn't proven it yet.

Sorry, but my head isn't in the sand, I simply don't give a shit.

If science eventually figures it out, it will be great for the people who do care, I'm concerned with a cure for diseases and renewable energy.

Edit: maybe that is where we should go, instead of chemotherapy should we dump all that and just use prayers? does that sound rational?

Good grief, use both, of course. Did you hear about he doctor who cured an incurable genetic disease with hypnosis because he thought it was warts.

 

[TheSlamma]

But I know exactly how to tell if somebody is mentally healthy. They can tell me what rational is.

What if they don't speak English? so now everyone who doesn't' speak English is not mentally healthy?

sorry just gonna try out Moonbeam argument tactics here and see how it goes.

 

[soulcougher73]

Why the insult? I just don't understand why you have to insult me like this?

He's a fucking moron. He can sling insults, but cant take them. When he is befuddled by logic he ignores posters. The guy should be banned for trolling at this point as nobody could be as fucking clueless as this Buttshot24 twat without it being on purpose.

 

[buckshot24]

Yes it is, you are calling me a liar as you are insinuating that I do actually care about where life comes from but I don't want to participate in your Science vs God creation debate because science hasn't proven it yet.

I don't think you are lying. You don't need to get into a debate about that I was asking what you thought and if it is rational to believe unguided chemistry is responsible for the origin of life. I think somebody mentioned rationality and I was seeing where you stood on what I find to be a completely unfounded belief.

Sorry, but my head isn't in the sand, I simply don't give a shit.

Well I'm sure you really believe that. I'd bury this topic as well if I were you.

Some of these issues, I believe, that you care so deeply about are related to how we got here. If we came from some random chemical slurry and we really have no real intrinsic value then wouldn't that mean something?

If science eventually figures it out, it will be great for the people who do care, I'm concerned with a cure for diseases and renewable energy.

But why would you care so much about the persistence of a bunch of bags of chemicals? If that is all we are, then who cares? Origins matter whether you have sand in your ears or not.

Edit: maybe that is where we should go, instead of chemotherapy should we dump all that and just use prayers? does that sound rational?

I'm not going to answer your question because you won't answer mine. Is the belief that unguided chemical processes kicked what we call life off, rational or irrational?

 

[Moonbeam]

What if they don't speak English? so now everyone who doesn't' speak English is not mentally healthy?

sorry just gonna try out Moonbeam argument tactics here and see how it goes.

I think what actually happened was that when I asked you how to tell if somebody is rational or not you became irrational because you had no rational answer.