christopher hitchens

[TheSlamma]

I think what actually happened was that when I asked you how to tell if somebody is rational or not you became irrational because you had no rational answer.

Actually I already did answer it earlier, you just didn't like that you were proven wrong in that post so you did the classic 8 year old argument tactic of ignoring it.

This reaffirms my conviction that people imagine that if they have opinions, they are ipso facto rational. - Moonbeam

Reason: coming to an answer that is based on facts, not opinions or beliefs. - The dictionary

You called your conviction on what "rational" means is peoples OPINION, You were wrong, the dictionary is right. So on top of that you have an irrational conviction because you didn't base it on facts.

Triple answered, and proven that you are writing your own definition of words.

 

[TheSlamma]

He's a fucking moron. He can sling insults, but cant take them. When he is befuddled by logic he ignores posters. The guy should be banned for trolling at this point as nobody could be as fucking clueless as this Buttshot24 twat without it being on purpose.

Yep, I agree. It was irrational of me to even get into it with him, and actually the same goes for Moonbeam, I should know I'll never get anywhere with someone who just starts making things up and redefining words in their own way.

 

[buckshot24]

This Soulcougher tells me I ignore people because their logic is too strong but his post of insults really shows why he in particular is on ignore. These insults should tell you he knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on so he name calls. Thanks for confirming for me.

 

[buckshot24]

Yep, I agree. It was irrational of me to even get into it with him, and actually the same goes for Moonbeam, I should know I'll never get anywhere with someone who just starts making things up and redefining words in their own way.

So you won't answer the simple question? Is the belief that unguided chemistry kicked off life some time in the past a rational belief?

 

[MongGrel]

So you won't answer the simple question? Is the belief that unguided chemistry kicked off life some time in the past a rational belief?

Rational.

Yes.

 

[norseamd]

Rational.

Yes.

This.

What makes us seem any different to other nonlife replicating molecules other than the fact of advanced neurological systems, which only occur in animals, and thus have nothing to do with being alive at all.

 

[fskimospy]

This.

What makes us seem any different to other nonlife replicating molecules other than the fact of advanced neurological systems, which only occur in animals, and thus have nothing to do with being alive at all.

I'm pretty sure his tactic is 'but we haven't seen that happen in a lab yet so believing it isn't rational!'. This is of course a transparently stupid thing to say.

To believe something happened a certain way doesn't require certainty, it just requires meaningful evidence that points more towards that than anything else. He appears to think there is approximately equal evidence that self-replicating molecules could arise through natural processes and that a magical man in the sky who is omnipotent, omniscient, and personally interested in your sex life poofed them into existence.

It's ironic that someone this irrational is trying to ask other people about their own rationality.

 

[buckshot24]

This.

What makes us seem any different to other nonlife replicating molecules other than the fact of advanced neurological systems, which only occur in animals, and thus have nothing to do with being alive at all.

What self replicating molecules are you comparing us to?

 

[buckshot24]

Rational.

Yes.

How so?

 

[norseamd]

What self replicating molecules are you comparing us to?

?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20906-life-like-cells-are-made-of-metal/

 

[buckshot24]

This goes back to asking for a single lab result where a self replicating molecule formed without undue intelligent interference in semi realistic conditions.

 

[norseamd]

This goes back to asking for a single lab result where a self replicating molecule formed without undue intelligent interference in semi realistic conditions.

And you think creating life out of nonlife material with or without human interference is not something that is noteworthy?

 

[buckshot24]

?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20906-life-like-cells-are-made-of-metal/

I don't see the replicating part.

 

[buckshot24]

And you think creating life out of nonlife material with or without human interference is not something that is noteworthy?

It would be completely noteworthy. But if you need to input intelligent agency into the process I don't know how that helps with the natural unguided formation of life.

 

[buckshot24]

?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20906-life-like-cells-are-made-of-metal/

Funny but this kind of "cell" is what Darwin thought made up living cells. If he knew what was really in those cells I doubt he'd come up with his theory.

 

[norseamd]

I don't see the replicating part.

Regardless the original question was not based on whether or not nonlife replicating molecules exist at all. It was a question of logic and philosophy.

 

[norseamd]

Funny but this kind of "cell" is what Darwin thought made up living cells. If he knew what was really in those cells I doubt he'd come up with his theory.

Not entirely on the same page here, did not read most of the article myself, but just know looking at the life page on Wikipedia, I am wondering why so many do not consider viruses and viroids to be life.

I was looking at giving prions as a possible example of nonlife replicating molecules, but it seems they are not replicating, but instead just interfere with other proteins, RNA, DNA, cells, or whatever particular lifeforms, and cause them to malfunction.

 

[jackstar7]

But why would you care so much about the persistence of a bunch of bags of chemicals? If that is all we are, then who cares? Origins matter whether you have sand in your ears or not.

Why?

This is the same thinking that leads to pride of birth, as if you had a hand in where/how you were born.

You are implying that to not understand our origin is to invalidate our present reality. Whether you intend that or not, it is what you are implying. If it's not, then reconfigure your statements to say what you mean.

 

[buckshot24]

Regardless the original question was not based on whether or not nonlife replicating molecules exist at all. It was a question of logic and philosophy.

You were the one comparing us to replicating molecules I thought you would have something in mind. It's ok to make mistakes, they happen.

Not entirely on the same page here, did not read most of the article myself, but just know looking at the life page on Wikipedia, I am wondering why so many do not consider viruses and viroids to be life.

They aren't self sustaining and require inserting themselves into genomes of other organisms.

 

[soulcougher73]

This Soulcougher tells me I ignore people because their logic is too strong but his post of insults really shows why he in particular is on ignore. These insults should tell you he knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on so he name calls. Thanks for confirming for me.

Trust me. You're worthy of insults. You sling them yourself but cry foul when one is flung back at you. That's called a "Hypochristian" ™.

 

[buckshot24]

Why?

This is the same thinking that leads to pride of birth, as if you had a hand in where/how you were born.

You are implying that to not understand our origin is to invalidate our present reality. Whether you intend that or not, it is what you are implying. If it's not, then reconfigure your statements to say what you mean.

I was implying that if WE DID understand our origins AND they are completely unguided and just lucky; people have no real intrinsic value. We're just "meat machines" dancing to our genetic codes. We aren't any better and worth protecting more than pigs and goats. Any meaning we put on ourselves is an illusion.

 

[norseamd]

They aren't self sustaining and require inserting themselves into genomes of other organisms.

The same can be said of many parasite organisms.

 

[Retro Rob]

that a magical man in the sky who is omnipotent, omniscient, and personally interested in your sex life poofed them into existence.

Actually, this isn't at all true. NO Christian believes God "poofed" anything into existence.

In fact, the Bible repeatedly says as regards the creation narrative as it relates to biological organisms: "God created", or "let the earth bring forth". and "God began to make"...these are terms humans use to describe the process of making things...not "poofing" them into existence.

I just figured that I'd point this out to you because you're simply misrepresenting the narrative, and then criticizing your misrepresentation.

 

[soulcougher73]

I was implying that if WE DID understand our origins AND they are completely unguided and just lucky people have no real intrinsic value. We're just a "meat machines" dancing to our genetic codes. We aren't any better and worth protecting more than pigs and goats. Any meaning we put on ourselves is an illusion.

That's your brainwashing talking. Utter nonsense

 

[soulcougher73]

Actually, this isn't at all true. NO Christian believes God "poofed" anything into existence.

In fact, the Bible repeatedly says as regards the creation narrative as it relates to biological organisms: "God created", or "let the earth bring forth". and "God began to make"...these are terms humans use to describe the process of making things...not "poofing" them into existence.

I just figured that I'd point this out to you because you're simply misrepresenting the narrative, and then criticizing your misrepresentation.

Did he poof the things to make the universe into existence? You know..the parts to put together the earth etc.