Christians and atheists overlap in values

[justoh]

pepsi and coke drinkers share common values as well. What's the point?

 

[Kadarin]

I would go so far as to say that most westernized people have more or less the same basic values ...... freedom of religion.....freedom of speech (more or less....obviously there are always assholes who want something banned but they are usually the minority).....don't murder, rape, steal, etc.....these are not christian or atheist values, I think, so much as this:

http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/be-cool-dont-be-an-asshole.jpg

 

[OverVolt]

I would go so far as to say that most westernized people have more or less the same basic values ...... freedom of religion.....freedom of speech (more or less....obviously there are always assholes who want something banned but they are usually the minority).....don't murder, rape, steal, etc.....these are not christian or atheist values, I think, so much as this:

http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/be-cool-dont-be-an-asshole.jpg

Our work ethic probably has its roots in puritanism. I guess 100 years from now they can say banging as many people as you can by 18 had its roots in atheism :awe:.

 

[Moonbeam]

You need to understand where Moonie is coming from. This should help you. Less than 1% of adults are self-actualized and Moonie happens to be one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-actualization

I see this man on a bridge with an enormous wheelbarrow full of pain and sadness and suffering who has just walked out of hell and sees heaven before him. He can't go back because he can see heaven, and he can't go forward because of his wheelbarrow full of suffering. And an demon hands him a card on which is written, You are the 1%, the 99% go in the barrow.

I see another man sitting before a computer, having received a gift from an angel and he sits there picking it apart, denying the words are real and really apply to him. If only, in only he were anything like that.

Thank you for your post. For good or ill, if either exist, it has cause me a great deal of internal agitation, actually, like no other post I've ever seen that I remember.

Ah, God damn. The sun is shining in my back yard and it's a beautiful day, and I got 99% of the world to get to see it that way. Son of a bitch.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I see this man on a bridge with an enormous wheelbarrow full of pain and sadness and suffering who has just walked out of hell and sees heaven before him. He can't go back because he can see heaven, and he can't go forward because of his wheelbarrow full of suffering. And an demon hands him a card on which is written, You are the 1%, the 99% go in the barrow.

I see another man sitting before a computer, having received a gift from an angel and he sits there picking it apart, denying the words are real and really apply to him. If only, in only he were anything like that.

Thank you for your post. For good or ill, if either exist, it has cause me a great deal of internal agitation, actually, like no other post I've ever seen that I remember.

Ah, God damn. The sun is shining in my back yard and it's a beautiful day, and I got 99% of the world to get to see it that way. Son of a bitch.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I see this man on a bridge with an enormous wheelbarrow full of pain and sadness and suffering who has just walked out of hell and sees heaven before him. He can't go back because he can see heaven, and he can't go forward because of his wheelbarrow full of suffering. And an demon hands him a card on which is written, You are the 1%, the 99% go in the barrow.

I see another man sitting before a computer, having received a gift from an angel and he sits there picking it apart, denying the words are real and really apply to him. If only, in only he were anything like that.

Thank you for your post. For good or ill, if either exist, it has cause me a great deal of internal agitation, actually, like no other post I've ever seen that I remember.

Ah, God damn. The sun is shining in my back yard and it's a beautiful day, and I got 99% of the world to get to see it that way. Son of a bitch.

My post was meant for good. We may disagree at times...as if that matters...but please know that I always wish the best for you.

 

[ThinClient]

How did that make you feel?

It made me feel sad that you are so poorly representing your religion, and then I was over it because I know so many of you do so poorly every day anyway.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It made me feel sad that you are so poorly representing your religion, and then I was over it because I know so many of you do so poorly every day anyway.

if the best you can do to represent your position is calling everybody wrong; yet you cannot back that up.....then I would suppose that you are not representing your position very well.....hmmm....door swings both ways.....

 

[Moonbeam]

My post was meant for good. We may disagree at times...as if that matters...but please know that I always wish the best for you.

By for good or ill I did not mean your intention. I had no doubt about that. I just wanted to tell you how discouraging the notion of 1% is if it is some cosmic fact that fixed the stars and cast in iron, in only small numbers can ever be like that. That would be very depressing, like thinking the 99% are stuck with their fate. What good would love be then? All there would be is ones own echo.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Hmm interesting. Based on these parameters, I'm self-actualized. I'm literally learning the best way to balance my sensitivity to fake/wrong/dishonest with comfortable acceptance.

Maslow's self-actualizing characteristics

• Efficient perceptions of reality. Self-actualizers are able to judge situations correctly and honestly. They are very sensitive to the fake and dishonest, and are free to see reality 'as it is'.
• Comfortable acceptance of self, others, nature. Self-actualizers accept their own human nature with all its flaws. The shortcomings of others and the contradictions of the human condition are accepted with humor and tolerance.
• Reliant on own experiences and judgement. Independent, not reliant on culture and environment to form opinions and views
• Spontaneous and natural. True to oneself, rather than being how others want
• Task centering. Most of Maslow's subjects had a mission to fulfill in life or some task or problem ‘beyond’ themselves (instead of outside of themselves) to pursue. Humanitarians such as Albert Schweitzer and Mother Teresa are considered to have possessed this quality.
• Autonomy. Self-actualizers are free from reliance on external authorities or other people. They tend to be resourceful and independent.
• Continued freshness of appreciation. The self-actualizer seems to constantly renew appreciation of life's basic goods. A sunset or a flower will be experienced as intensely time after time as it was at first. There is an "innocence of vision", like that of an artist or child.
• Profound interpersonal relationships. The interpersonal relationships of self-actualizers are marked by deep loving bonds.
• Comfort with solitude. Despite their satisfying relationships with others, self-actualizing persons value solitude and are comfortable being alone.[18]
• Non-hostile sense of humor. This refers to the ability to laugh at oneself.
• Peak experiences. All of Maslow's subjects reported the frequent occurrence of peak experiences (temporary moments of self-actualization). These occasions were marked by feelings of ecstasy, harmony, and deep meaning. Self-actualizers reported feeling at one with the universe, stronger and calmer than ever before, filled with light, beautiful and good, and so forth.
• Socially compassionate. Possessing humanity
• Few friends. Few close intimate friends rather than many surface relationships

 

[Moonbeam]

if the best you can do to represent your position is calling everybody wrong; yet you cannot back that up.....then I would suppose that you are not representing your position very well.....hmmm....door swings both ways.....

I do not know how God can be found anywhere but in ones own heart. I don't know any way to say he exists but by manifesting that love as best you can. I do not know how you can persist in faith unless you forgive yourself for you failures. The only proof of the existence of God that I see is in the joy I feel when I see God in others. Even the viciousness and cruelty of the world is proof of what folk do who feel forsaken that the love of God is something we feel we do not deserve. The door to God opens, I think, when the damage to our hearts is mended. But however that can happen it happens by placing oneself where we can be hit by the train of grace. It doesn't happen, I think, when we hide behind our egos.

 

[Moonbeam]

Man has sought since the beginning of language, I think, to return to the garden from which the knowledge of good and evil cast him, when words were used to tell our children they are evil. Heaven and hell are analogies for this duality of separation, in my opinion, psychological tools which for serious seekers provide a template of what happened, a tool from which a revolution in consciousness can take place, a realization that knits unity back together. Along the way we have given God a bad name as a result of the bad behavior of those untransformed by his name. That is why I reject the notion that that God is God and why I don't think in religious terms except to draw parallels and extract what seem to me to be the implications.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

You need to understand where Moonie is coming from. This should help you. Less than 1% of adults are self-actualized and Moonie happens to be one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-actualization

Hmm I don't think he is one. He fails this criteria:


Efficient perceptions of reality. Self-actualizers are able to judge situations correctly and honestly. They are very sensitive to the fake and dishonest, and are free to see reality 'as it is'.

 

[ThinClient]

if the best you can do to represent your position is calling everybody wrong; yet you cannot back that up.....then I would suppose that you are not representing your position very well.....hmmm....door swings both ways.....

Nah, he's being intentionally dishonest with me, so I'm throwing it back in his face. I'm perfectly willing (and would rather) to have an adult conversation.

It doesn't appear that he's capable of doing so. I'm surprised that he hasn't called me Satan yet.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'm perfectly willing (and would rather) to have an adult conversation.

I find that hard to believe!!

I would think that you meant to say that you were perfectly willing to continue to make fun of what he believes and that even if he was to approach you desiring dialogue, that you would most likely make fun of and actually not discuss things in an adult like manner.....

 

[ThinClient]

I find that hard to believe!!

I would think that you meant to say that you were perfectly willing to continue to make fun of what he believes and that even if he was to approach you desiring dialogue, that you would most likely make fun of and actually not discuss things in an adult like manner.....

It really doesn't matter what you want to believe.

The fact remains that I'm patiently waiting for people to stop acting like children and sit down calmly to the table for a civilized adult discussion.

If all they're going to do is act like children, then I AM perfectly willing to continue to make fun of them. If there's an honest approach from them to engage in a dialogue, I have always and will always pay them the same respect in return. If they're just going to call me Satan, like Pray to Jesus does, well then they can go fuck themselves.

 

[justoh]

An adult conversation about something inherently senseless to begin with?

I'm an atheist since I assert that there's no evidence for believing in gods. That's all it means. What does this "atheist" descriptor say about my ethics? Nothing.

Further, why wouldn't the values of any sane person, be they atheists, or pepsi or coke drinkers, not "overlap" with the "values" of christianity? That's right. They would.

It's not even predictable exactly what the values of a "christian" would be, for that matter.

I should have just left it at the coke and pepsi post, since that said it all, but I couldn't resist.

 

[piasabird]

Whether you are Christian or even against organized religion we all have a need for higher learning once our needs are met. Some people call that religion, spirituality, upper reasoning, search for truth, or just enlightenment or some kind of philosophy.

Another way to think of it is why are we here and what is our purpose?

Once you get past eating and breading what is the point in life?

 

[ThinClient]

The point of life is each of our own subjective decision on what that point will be for ourselves.

For me, it's drinking beer. I am in heaven.

 

[moonbogg]

Whether you are Christian or even against organized religion we all have a need for higher learning once our needs are met. Some people call that religion, spirituality, upper reasoning, search for truth, or just enlightenment or some kind of philosophy.

Another way to think of it is why are we here and what is our purpose?

Once you get past eating and breading what is the point in life?

Throw some cheese in the mix and you're all set. Jokes aside, I think there is a higher purpose for life, but its a purpose that I assigned. No one else can assign it, like ThinClient mentioned. Other people think there is no purpose, and their opinion is just as valid as mine with regard to purpose. Therefore, there is no purpose and yet there is magnificent purpose. If I confused you, that was not on purpose.

 

[JEDIYoda]

yet there is magnificent purpose.

that's true!

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

An adult conversation about something inherently senseless to begin with?

I'm an atheist since I assert that there's no evidence for believing in gods. That's all it means. What does this "atheist" descriptor say about my ethics? Nothing.

Further, why wouldn't the values of any sane person, be they atheists, or pepsi or coke drinkers, not "overlap" with the "values" of christianity? That's right. They would.

It's not even predictable exactly what the values of a "christian" would be, for that matter.

I should have just left it at the coke and pepsi post, since that said it all, but I couldn't resist.

I'm glad you left it in as it's an excellent point. Christians are people of every size, shape and color with wide a diversity of thought/belief on many different issues. They are NOT even remotely monolithic as many non-Christians falsely believe.

 

[OverVolt]

I'm glad you left it in as it's an excellent point. Christians are people of every size, shape and color with wide a diversity of thought/belief on many different issues. They are NOT even remotely monolithic as many non-Christians falsely believe.

Thats silly atheists don't have beliefs, beliefs are for idiots. Atheists just know everything.

 

[moonbogg]

that's true!

Is it true for the child who starves to death before reaching age 5? Does such suffering serve a magnificent purpose? I have the answer, but do you?

 

[alzan]

Hmm I don't think he is one. He fails this criteria:


Efficient perceptions of reality. Self-actualizers are able to judge situations correctly and honestly. They are very sensitive to the fake and dishonest, and are free to see reality 'as it is'.

Actually Moonbeam sees reality accurately and is an astute judge of situations.