Christian Right Split Over GOP

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
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http://abcnews.go.com/Politics...tory?id=3831651&page=1

Religious conservative leaders are in disarray over the 2008 Republican field as deep divisions contribute to an unusually wide-open GOP race for the presidential nomination.

Faced with a Mormon from Massachusetts, a twice-divorced former New York mayor who backs abortion and gay rights, a senator who once called Robertson and the late Rev. Jerry Falwell the "forces of evil" and a Hollywood actor who rarely goes to church, the once powerful coalition of Christian conservative leaders appears to be splintering.

Just this week, three prominent Christian conservatives announced their support for different candidates.

Paul Weyrich, builder of the Moral Majority group, said he would back former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, while Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., a former presidential candidate, endorsed Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., today.

Perhaps most striking, however, is Robertson's decision to support former Mayor New York Rudolph Giuliani, a moderate on social issues who supports abortion rights.

In endorsing Giuliani, Robertson appears to be making a political calculation that Republicans need to emphasize national security and combating terrorism if they're going to keep the White House in 2008.

"To me the overriding issue before the American people is the defense of our population from the blood lust of Islamic terrorists," said Robertson, the founder of the Christian Coalition and Regent University who ran for president in 1988.

"It is my pleasure to announce my support for 'America's Mayor,' Rudy Giuliani, a proven leader who is not afraid of what lies ahead and who will cast a hopeful vision for all Americans," Robertson said.

Evangelical Leaders Split Decision

The Robertson endorsement came as a shock to one of Giuliani's presidential rivals.

"I am surprised," said former Tennessee senator and nomination hopeful Fred Thompson. "But I guess it's because I am easily surprised," he added.

Romney said the endorsement wouldn't help Giuliani win the backing of social conservatives.

"I don't think the Republican Party will choose a pro-choice, pro-gay civil union candidate to lead our party," he said.

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, a former Baptist minister, said the endorsements are further evidence that some of these conservative evangelical leaders "are more intoxicated with power than principle," he said.

"Frankly, it's a little disturbing, if not frightening, that some have forgotten the essence of what Jesus taught, and that is if you gain the whole world but lose your soul what does it profit you?" he said.

Scott Reed, a Republican strategist who managed Bob Dole's 1996 campaign, said the endorsement raises questions about Robertson's commitment to the issues he has long talked about ? and about Giuliani's shifting rhetoric on social issues.

"It really looks like pandering on both fronts," Reed said. "Robertson is trying to become relevant again."

But other Republican strategists say the biggest loser out of the Robertson-Giuliani endorsement is Romney.

"It's a big blow to Romney ... Romney has really given a hard push to secure himself at the top of the values voters list," former White House spokesman Trent Duffy said on Politics Live on ABC News' digital channel.

Robertson's backing may give evangelicals the cover they need to vote for Giuliani, who is seen as a viable challenger to Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., Duffy said.

Endorsement Impact

Others suggested the endorsement may not have much influence.

"Robertson's actually not that popular among Christian evangelicals," said political science professor Ted Jelen, who studies and writes about religion and politics.

Jelen said Robertson may be trying to stick it to the movement's strict doctrinarians, like Falwell, who refused to support Robertson's 1988 presidential bid.

"Robertson, when he ran for president himself, was victimized by all of the doctrinal divisions," said Jelen. "He is a Southern Baptist, but he's also a charismatic who believes in speaking in tongues."

Robertson regularly makes controversial remarks on the Christian Broadcasting Network, which he founded.

"We have to recognize that Islam is not a religion. It is a worldwide political movement meant on domination of the world," he said on a June 12 edition of The 700 Club.

Still., Robertson's endorsement amounts to a conservative establishment stamp of approval for Giuliani, whose views and record on abortion and gay rights put him in direct conflict with Republican orthodoxy.

A candidate in favor of abortion rights hasn't received the Republican nomination since Gerald Ford ran in 1976.

Over the last three decades, the conservative movement has increasingly defined itself based on the so-called "culture wars," with the battle over the judiciary, and Roe vs. Wade, the landmark abortion decision by the Supreme Court, taking center stage.

Waning Power of Christian Right?

In the last decade, leaders of the conservative Christian political movement appeared to be masters of one of the most, if not the most, politically influential voting blocs in the nation.

With political mastermind Karl Rove cracking the whip, evangelical Christian voters turned out in droves to support George W. Bush, an avowed born-again Christian, propelling him to the White House and voting to reelect him in 2004, by 4-1.

However Bush's support among evangelicals has declined.

"Presidents Reagan and the Bushes, both father and son, have talked the talk, but really haven't walked the walk," Jelen said, noting evangelicals have yet to reverse the legalization of abortion or legalize school prayer and see a movement toward more rights for gays and lesbians.

While evangelicals are now less likely to identify themselves as members of the Republican Party, opting for the independent moniker instead, according to polls conducted by the Pew Research Center.

New Generation of Christian Leaders

Today, a new, younger generation of evangelical pastors are pushing the movement in a different direction, focusing on social justice, the environment and opposition to the Iraq War.

The old guard of the Christian Right have been unable to unify behind a single GOP presidential candidate.

It's an open question whether Robertson's endorsement will do more to help Giuliani's presidential campaign -- or to call into question Robertson's credibility among a substantial number of evangelical white Protestants, according to ABC Polling Director Gary Langer.

Giuliani runs about evenly with McCain and Thompson among evangelicals in the latest ABC/Post poll, while holding a 20-point lead among all other Republicans and Republican-leaning independents.

Jelen said if the Republican Party nominates someone Christian evangelicals can't get behind, they may stay home.

"Most people don't realize that Rudy Giuliani is or was pro-life and that he dressed up like a Radio City Rockette," said Jelen.

"Once those ads start airing in South Carolina, it's going to start getting pretty ugly ... The really interesting question is whether Christian evangelicals will stay home or not?"

It'll be interesting to see if the GOP really is as split as it seems to be with all the various evangelical leaders divided on their support of candidates. Will they stay home, I think, is the major point here, as they were crucial in the 04 election when they came out in droves.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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It isnt just christians but a split between the neocons and conservatives. The GOP is in for more hurting until one side goes away. Personally I hope we kick the neo cons back to the democratic party where they belong.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Have no fear, Pat Robertson will soon have that heart to heart talk with God, and then tell us more about what he told God to do. Next damn thing, someone like Castro will finally
die, and Robertson will take the credit.

Don't piss off Pat. When God is your gunsling personal goon who can strike us dead, people take notice. Now what we all really want to know, is when will Rupert Murdock make up his mind to seal the deal.

Don't worry about what Jesus would do, worry about what Jerry Falwell would do?
 
Feb 10, 2000
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I must admit I was a little surprised by Robertson's endorsement of Giuiani, but at the end of the day I think he just wanted to endorse a candidate capable of winning. It seems to me Rudy is the only Republican candidate who stands a chance against Hillary.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: Genx87
It isnt just christians but a split between the neocons and conservatives. The GOP is in for more hurting until one side goes away. Personally I hope we kick the neo cons back to the democratic party where they belong.

Back to the Democratic party, huh? Come on, at least have the balls to admit that this particular problem was spawned from your very own party.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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Originally posted by: Genx87
It isnt just christians but a split between the neocons and conservatives. The GOP is in for more hurting until one side goes away. Personally I hope we kick the neo cons back to the democratic party where they belong.

Better yet, out of existence entirely.

For those that don't know, neoconservatives are essentially bastardized, disgruntled ex-liberals. Wikipedia: Neocon
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I must admit I was a little surprised by Robertson's endorsement of Giuiani, but at the end of the day I think he just wanted to endorse a candidate capable of winning. It seems to me Rudy is the only Republican candidate who stands a chance against Hillary.

But that means he is a Republican shill who stands for a party, not a moral position.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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^^He just knows Ghouli is just a suckass who will hire more of Pats rejects from his law school and they will further corrupt our government
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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He is just trying to play kingmaker. Of course why any moderate would want to vote for Pat Robertson's pick for president is beyond me.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,643
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Genx87
It isnt just christians but a split between the neocons and conservatives. The GOP is in for more hurting until one side goes away. Personally I hope we kick the neo cons back to the democratic party where they belong.

Back to the Democratic party, huh? Come on, at least have the balls to admit that this particular problem was spawned from your very own party.

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

For those that don't know, neoconservatives are essentially bastardized, disgruntled ex-liberals. Wikipedia: Neocon
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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The religious right is still a must have group for the Republicans. Thats why the bulk of the republican field is all clustered in one big bunch competing to pander to the radical right with pro life stands. Leaving Ron Paul and Giuliani the lone exceptions.

But its hardly cause for any Democratic joy, no matter who the repubs nominate, they will get the religious right almost by default. And now Robertson has said, even Rudy is may be needed if he will only save our butts.

But the GenX position of---------Personally I hope we kick the neo cons back to the democratic party where they belong.

Which is the sheer genius brilliance of total denial.

Lets see if I can follow this GenX circular reasoning which seems to go as follows:

Republican=good
Democrats=bad
Neocons are now a big loser for the Republicans so now neocons=bad
Therefore since democrats and neocons=bad, neocons=democrats.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the republicans are STILL fighting to keep the REPUBLICAN neocons in power.

GenX revisionist history at its finest. Why wait until after the fact to rewrite history when it can be rewritten even before it happens?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,449
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Christians who love God will vote Democratic. Christians who fear God will vote Republican.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Genx87
It isnt just christians but a split between the neocons and conservatives. The GOP is in for more hurting until one side goes away. Personally I hope we kick the neo cons back to the democratic party where they belong.

Back to the Democratic party, huh? Come on, at least have the balls to admit that this particular problem was spawned from your very own party.

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

For those that don't know, neoconservatives are essentially bastardized, disgruntled ex-liberals. Wikipedia: Neocon

So your trying to say that Cheney is really a disgruntled ex-liberal?? :laugh:
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
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Today, a new, younger generation of evangelical pastors are pushing the movement in a different direction, focusing on social justice, the environment and opposition to the Iraq War.

This article is pure bs. The left always tries to say this every election cycle that evangelicals are more interested in liberal talking points. Its just not true.

I know hundreds of college aged evengelical Christians. I even help run a Church service catered stricly towards 19 to 29 years olds and have YET to come across a single one who cares more about the environment than they do abortion or gay marriage.

Its just not true.

As far as presidential candidates go. Most I talk to would prefer Huckabee or Romney, myself included.

As far s global warming goes. Most I talk to dont believe we are the main cause of it. And its definitely not a priority above abortion and gay marriage.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
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I don't care much for Ron Paul, but I recall when he proposed at a Republican debate that we examine our foreign policy and see how the decisions we were making were having an impact in the ME and subsequent motivation for Al Qaeda, that Rudy and the others reacted quite vehemently that Paul was accusing the US of either causing or deserving 9/11. Now, it's clear to anyone else that Paul, like many of us, was merely looking at all the factors that might have contributed to 9/11 and wasn't blaming the US and most certainly not saying the US deserved 9/11. Paul may be a bit of a nut, but the guy clearly loves this country.

However, after 9/11 Robertson was in full agreement with Falwell (B.I.H.) that the "gays, abortionists, feminists and the lesbians and the ACLU" caused 9/11 by rejecting god. Now Rudy is fine with accpeting Robertson's endorsement? The endorsement of someone who actively believes the US deserved 9/11 as punishment from god for its heathen ways? Hm...
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: senseamp
He is just trying to play kingmaker. Of course why any moderate would want to vote for Pat Robertson's pick for president is beyond me.

Yup, my first thought as well. Who cares man? [/Dennis Hopper voice]


Otherwise, Evan is on a roll today with his "demise/disaray of the Repub party' thingy (see other thread).

How do you get away with NO personal comment in your OP, contrary to the rules? ;)

Otherwise, just another overblown media assertion in the neverending hunt for a real story. If a real third party effort is made I'll believe it. But time is running out for that.

Whatever there is of the CC, it is just playing the regular political game trying to get influence with candidates etc. For another, I strongly suspect that HRC will be sufficient to unite them if she is the Dem nominee.

Fern
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
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Hey now, neo-conservatives aren't limited to the Republican party. Just look at Hillary.

Honestly, if I believed in a higher power, I'd be praying for Obama as president.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Christians who love God will vote Democratic. Christians who fear God will vote Republican.

What about people who don't believe in a god?
 

daveshel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,452
1
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Christians who love God will vote Democratic. Christians who fear God will vote Republican.

"And the Lord uses the good ones
The bad ones use the Lord..."
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,609
29,257
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Originally posted by: Corbett
Today, a new, younger generation of evangelical pastors are pushing the movement in a different direction, focusing on social justice, the environment and opposition to the Iraq War.

This article is pure bs. The left always tries to say this every election cycle that evangelicals are more interested in liberal talking points. Its just not true.

I know hundreds of college aged evengelical Christians. I even help run a Church service catered stricly towards 19 to 29 years olds and have YET to come across a single one who cares more about the environment than they do abortion or gay marriage.

Its just not true.

As far as presidential candidates go. Most I talk to would prefer Huckabee or Romney, myself included.

As far s global warming goes. Most I talk to dont believe we are the main cause of it. And its definitely not a priority above abortion and gay marriage.


I only hope that you educate these 19 to 29 year olds into realizing that environmental issues are by far more important than abortion or gay marriage--which have always been nothing more than political issues, as the history of most politicians will show you that these only come up for elections.

climate change is an ongoing issue, that we confront in the real world. abortion/gay marriage are simply trotted out for election time for politicians to sway the ignorant masses, and quickly brushed under the rug b/c none of them give a damn.