Christian and Athiest in the same house!

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

Kudos to the boy! That was fantastic.

Regarding your situation though, you're wrong simply because you're up against a woman. You can't use logic on them. You will lose no matter what because it's too hard for us guys to fight against irrationality. I'd let your wife think she's right; then when she's not around, high-five your son and buy him a beer! (Or equivalent for whatever 14 yr olds like)

 

[Mr N8]

That's a tough situation. She will, at this point, always belief firmly in Christianity and part of that is the desire to spread the belief to other people. Seeing her kids choose anything else will probably crush her and seeing you stand firm in Atheism is probably very hard on her as well. I have nothing to offer in terms of advice other than to say, good luck. I hope you guys can figure out a way through this.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
Kudos to the boy! That was fantastic.

Regarding your situation though, you're wrong simply because you're up against a woman. You can't use logic on them. You will lose no matter what because it's too hard for us guys to fight against irrationality. I'd let your wife think she's right; then when she's not around, high-five your son and buy him a beer! (Or equivalent for whatever 14 yr olds like)

yep dont try to use logic on a woman in a fit....doesnt work, only makes things worse.

tell him to do what his mom tells him, and give him a talking too. no one should talk to their elders like that, even if your moms 80 and your 40.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: hans030390
I'm thinking your son could have been a bit more respectful. I'm christian, and I respect other's beliefs, and I dont think she should be pushing the kids to believe anything. I dont think you should try putting anything on them either, which it sounds like you haven't.

The problem is that most Christian's can not see the perspective of the non-believer. As a Christian, you can not judge a non-believer by the same code of ethics that you have. And it is a fine line between telling someone who is willing to listen and proselytizing. I have a close friend that is stubborn and gets irritated whenever anyone talks about religion, so I choose not to talk about those things unless he brings them up. I pray for him, and try to treat him with as much respect as I can give, but that is it.

We don't have enough information to see if the wife was actually encouraging the son to go, or heavy handedly pushing the son to go (which it sounds like she was doing the latter).

One of my coworkers, she "preaches to everyone, and when she found out a coworker was lesbian, she judged her and said she was sinning (who isn't, and the person isn't even Christian <so no need to rebuke just point out that all people sin and are not able to be sinless> ). She is one of the people that people don't talk to, and gives Christians a bad name, but I am sure she is a "model" Christian in her own life. My coworkers know I am a believer, but they also know that I won't preach to them. Rather I will show them by action, and if they approach me about the subject I am more than able to talk about it.

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: DurocShark

Originally posted by: purbeast0
also i agree with hans. it does sound pretty disrespectful. i personally am christian too and like hans, i don't push my beliefs on anyone.

from my experience, its typically people who do not really believe in any type of god who are the ones strongly forcing their opinions and beliefs on people, not the other way around. except in college, my freshman year, i had this roomate who was super christian and tried to get me to go to bible meetings and stuff. it really pissed me off how strong he pushed it.

Where are the atheists pushing pamphlets in your hands at the mall? Where are the atheist televangelists?

when did i say that "from my experience" included atheists pushing pamphlets in my hands at the mall?

i love how everyone on ATOT jumps to conclusions and makes all these assumptions.

he is just making the point that you were wrong. how many missionaries do you know of that are not religious? reality is that it is those who are part of organized religion who tend to 'push' their belief off on others.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Czar
you are looking at this the wrong way

the boy is 14 year old
his mother is trying to make him do something he doesnt want to do

Idiot. What if the kid doesn't want to go to school? Don't make him do something he doesn't want to? :roll:

because school and church are comparable? :roll:

 

[GeneValgene]

Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
Kudos to the boy! That was fantastic.

Regarding your situation though, you're wrong simply because you're up against a woman. You can't use logic on them. You will lose no matter what because it's too hard for us guys to fight against irrationality. I'd let your wife think she's right; then when she's not around, high-five your son and buy him a beer! (Or equivalent for whatever 14 yr olds like)

how old are you?

do you think that was fantastic? do you think the boy really changed any of his mom's views by talking back like that? if anything, it just made her more angry, and more set in her views. he needs to learn to express himself respectfully.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Czar
you are looking at this the wrong way

the boy is 14 year old
his mother is trying to make him do something he doesnt want to do

yeah he's 14. he's still a minor. life is all about doing things you don't want to do. DEAL WITH IT. when he's 18 and moves out of mommy and daddy's house then he can do whatever he wants.

wtf is wrong with people these days that they think 14 year olds get to make decisions?

I don't think you can talk about religions in those terms, especially when one parent is an atheist.
Religion is one thing people of whatever age SHOULD be able to decide for themselves. If you think otherwise I hope you never have children.

 

[KB]

Unfortunately your wife won't listen to reason. You have to agree with her even if you don't.

Has your son ever gone to church? If he hasn't then you might encourage him to go. Atheists shouldn't be atheists because others are. Most atheists I know are scientists and are willing to experience the opposite of their opinion in order to validate/invalidate their opinions. They experiment and are willing to try different things and don't just take others word for it. Your son should experience other religions to prove to himself that it isn't for him.

If he isn't willing to go to church, have him read the bible and come to a conclusion on his own and not just from your ideas. Maybe he really wants to be agnostic, not atheist.

If he has gone to church and still wishes to be atheist he has to tell his mom why in his own words, not in yours.

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: DurocShark

Originally posted by: purbeast0
also i agree with hans. it does sound pretty disrespectful. i personally am christian too and like hans, i don't push my beliefs on anyone.

from my experience, its typically people who do not really believe in any type of god who are the ones strongly forcing their opinions and beliefs on people, not the other way around. except in college, my freshman year, i had this roomate who was super christian and tried to get me to go to bible meetings and stuff. it really pissed me off how strong he pushed it.

Where are the atheists pushing pamphlets in your hands at the mall? Where are the atheist televangelists?

when did i say that "from my experience" included atheists pushing pamphlets in my hands at the mall?

i love how everyone on ATOT jumps to conclusions and makes all these assumptions.

he is just making the point that you were wrong. how many missionaries do you know of that are not religious? reality is that it is those who are part of organized religion who tend to 'push' their belief off on others.

so basically, my experiences are wrong?

i would like to know where i said christians never push pamphlets to people. please show me. i am having trouble finding it. and when i see that, yes it pisses me off as well, and like i said, i'm christian (catholic).

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Czar
you are looking at this the wrong way

the boy is 14 year old
his mother is trying to make him do something he doesnt want to do

Idiot. What if the kid doesn't want to go to school? Don't make him do something he doesn't want to? :roll:

and religion and school amounts to the same thing in life?

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Czar
you are looking at this the wrong way

the boy is 14 year old
his mother is trying to make him do something he doesnt want to do

Idiot. What if the kid doesn't want to go to school? Don't make him do something he doesn't want to? :roll:

It isn't exactly the same thing in the boy's mind. School is important for being materially successful in life. For an atheist religion has no meaning toward doing anything good for their life. And to some of them, the ones who are ignorant and choose not to understand another POV (which goes both ways BTW), they think religion is actually detrimental, sighting anecdoctal evidence. :roll: It is a bad example to say religion and education is the same.

The truth of the matter is her pushing her son "too hard" will only make him reject it fully. Chances are if she talked about it and didn't push or manipulate (because she wants to control his choices), he would be more receptive. If she persists in not letting him choose, by just presenting the facts openly and actually "leave it up to G-d" instead of trying to control it, he will more than likely think more about religion than completely rejecting it.

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: hans030390
I'm thinking your son could have been a bit more respectful. I'm christian, and I respect other's beliefs, and I dont think she should be pushing the kids to believe anything. I dont think you should try putting anything on them either, which it sounds like you haven't.

The problem is that most Christian's can not see the perspective of the non-believer. As a Christian, you can not judge a non-believer by the same code of ethics that you have. And it is a fine line between telling someone who is willing to listen and proselytizing. I have a close friend that is stubborn and gets irritated whenever anyone talks about religion, so I choose not to talk about those things unless he brings them up. I pray for him, and try to treat him with as much respect as I can give, but that is it.

We don't have enough information to see if the wife was actually encouraging the son to go, or heavy handedly pushing the son to go (which it sounds like she was doing the latter).

One of my coworkers, she "preaches to everyone, and when she found out a coworker was lesbian, she judged her and said she was sinning (who isn't, and the person isn't even Christian <so no need to rebuke just point out that all people sin and are not able to be sinless> ). She is one of the people that people don't talk to, and gives Christians a bad name, but I am sure she is a "model" Christian in her own life. My coworkers know I am a believer, but they also know that I won't preach to them. Rather I will show them by action, and if they approach me about the subject I am more than able to talk about it.

The problem is that his son has clearly been indoctrinated the other way. Referring to religeon as "believing in fantasies" evinces a closed mind towards beliefs other than his and obviously indicates his father isn't "fairly" answering his sons questions. Point of fact, there are no questions about atheism.....people are atheist based on having nothing else worthy, to them, to believe in, so they're probably spending the majority of their time discussuing religeon and not atheism so the kid is getting the skewed opinion of his father.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
also i agree with hans. it does sound pretty disrespectful. i personally am christian too and like hans, i don't push my beliefs on anyone.

from my experience, its typically people who do not really believe in any type of god who are the ones strongly forcing their opinions and beliefs on people, not the other way around. except in college, my freshman year, i had this roomate who was super christian and tried to get me to go to bible meetings and stuff. it really pissed me off how strong he pushed it.

That's great for you, but I've found in 99.9% of cases the exact opposite.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: KB
Unfortunately your wife won't listen to reason. You have to agree with her even if you don't.

Has your son ever gone to church? If he hasn't then you might encourage him to go. Atheists shouldn't be atheists because others are. Most atheists I know are scientists and are willing to experience the opposite of their opinion in order to validate/invalidate their opinions. They experiment and are willing to try different things and don't just take others word for it. Your son should experience other religions to prove to himself that it isn't for him.

If he isn't willing to go to church, have him read the bible and come to a conclusion on his own and not just from your ideas. Maybe he really wants to be agnostic, not atheist.

If he has gone to church and still wishes to be atheist he has to tell his mom why in his own words, not in yours.

good post

i totally dont believe in any type of religion, science is my bible, but i have to admit the bible, as a book, is a very entertaining read and it can teach you some valuable life lessons wether your christian or not

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Czar
you are looking at this the wrong way

the boy is 14 year old
his mother is trying to make him do something he doesnt want to do

yeah he's 14. he's still a minor. life is all about doing things you don't want to do. DEAL WITH IT. when he's 18 and moves out of mommy and daddy's house then he can do whatever he wants.

wtf is wrong with people these days that they think 14 year olds get to make decisions?

I don't think you can talk about religions in those terms, especially when one parent is an atheist.
Religion is one thing people of whatever age SHOULD be able to decide for themselves. If you think otherwise I hope you never have children.

i have two children. my wife wants to take them to church and that's fine with me. i've personally been struggling with religion lately, but i'm certainly not going to push my children in that direction. until they are on their own they are living in our house and i have no problem with my wife taking them to church and exposing them to it. my parents made me go to church until i moved out of their house, and i'm certainly not brainwashed.

kids are brats these days and this is part of it. i'm sorry, but i'm not going to let my kids run my house and i certainly wouldn't tolerate either of them treating their mother like the OP let his kid treat his wife. the fact that he had to leave the room so he didn't laugh at her is so beyond pathetic.

The being rude part isn't acceptable, and he should be punished for it, but he should be allowed to express and hold his own views, in a reasonable fashion.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Sorry to say, but decisions about religion should be made BEFORE marriage. Otherwise, I think you're setting yourself up for disaster.

QFT! How did you two even end up together? It defies logic. An atheist and a Christian are inherently incompatible, unless the Christian is merely a nominal Christian (as are many these days).

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

Originally posted by: GeneValgene

Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
Kudos to the boy! That was fantastic.

Regarding your situation though, you're wrong simply because you're up against a woman. You can't use logic on them. You will lose no matter what because it's too hard for us guys to fight against irrationality. I'd let your wife think she's right; then when she's not around, high-five your son and buy him a beer! (Or equivalent for whatever 14 yr olds like)

how old are you?

do you think that was fantastic? do you think the boy really changed any of his mom's views by talking back like that? if anything, it just made her more angry, and more set in her views. he needs to learn to express himself respectfully.

I'm 28. And yes, I think that was fantastic. I hate religion and seeing a 14 yr old say what this one did to a religion pusher, is priceless. I also think that a kid doesn't need to wait until he's 18 before he is allowed to stand up for himself. I don't think the kid was trying to change his mom's views either. I think he just wanted her to stop trying to change his. Neither of us really know the full situation so I'm going on solely what the OP stated here. If they really had an impartiality agreement on religion, then his wife clearly broke it and his son called her on it. I think he COULD have been more tactful, but aside from that, he said what he said and it made me laugh.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Yesterday he finally said, "Why would I want to go listen to a bunch of people worshipping their fantasies?" I had to leave the room. That was a great line! But I didn't want to make my wife look like a fool by laughing.

You sound like a real jerk. Kids don't come up with stuff like that on their own and certainly wouldn't be so disrespectful to his mother unless he was following your example. Congrats.

Everyone already knows you're a complete idiot and fool, why do you find it necessary to constantly remind us of this fact?

BULLSHIT kids don't come up with stuff on their own. Many don't, many do. It's tremendously influenced by personality and intellect, not just environment. Furthermore with an involved Christian in the house there was obviously an equal chance to swing either way.

You're just biased, and a bigot, and an asshole, and an idiot. How you find room to be so many things is beyond me, but oh well.

You want disrespectful? Hounding someone to be a part of something they don't believe in out of your own insecurities. Using guilt, especially as a mother, to brainwash your own children. There's plenty of disrespect going on in that house all right, and like usualy it's mostly on the part of the religious.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: hans030390
I'm thinking your son could have been a bit more respectful. I'm christian, and I respect other's beliefs, and I dont think she should be pushing the kids to believe anything. I dont think you should try putting anything on them either, which it sounds like you haven't.

The problem is that most Christian's can not see the perspective of the non-believer. As a Christian, you can not judge a non-believer by the same code of ethics that you have. And it is a fine line between telling someone who is willing to listen and proselytizing. I have a close friend that is stubborn and gets irritated whenever anyone talks about religion, so I choose not to talk about those things unless he brings them up. I pray for him, and try to treat him with as much respect as I can give, but that is it.

We don't have enough information to see if the wife was actually encouraging the son to go, or heavy handedly pushing the son to go (which it sounds like she was doing the latter).

One of my coworkers, she "preaches to everyone, and when she found out a coworker was lesbian, she judged her and said she was sinning (who isn't, and the person isn't even Christian <so no need to rebuke just point out that all people sin and are not able to be sinless> ). She is one of the people that people don't talk to, and gives Christians a bad name, but I am sure she is a "model" Christian in her own life. My coworkers know I am a believer, but they also know that I won't preach to them. Rather I will show them by action, and if they approach me about the subject I am more than able to talk about it.

a 14 year old isn't finding atheism on his own. it's something he probably doesn't really believe anyhow. as i said above, it's more like he saw mom and dad fighting about it, saw mom get upset and decided to use it to get out of doing something he didn't want to do.

Ummmm, that is a lot of conjecture. If you read the OPs posts, the argument happened after the situation happened. It seems to me that the mother is pushing the kid to go to church, which happens a lot. But the kid has come to an age where he has some set ideas (even if faulty) about religion, and her pushing "hard" for the kid to do something he sees as incorrect will only bolster his beliefs. Chances are the only way he will want to learn more is if someone impartial (a Christian that isn't a relative), presents the Gospel in a way that doesn't seem heavy-handed.

My advice to the father, is be more understanding of the mom's POV. And for the mom to be more understanding of the father's POV. The mother must also try to talk to the kid about Christianity without being controlling, and if she cannot, pray for him and "leave it up to G-d".