IAteYourMother
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2004
- 10,491
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even then... I think agnostic/Christian might work. However, an atheist with a Christian is a recipe for disaster.
even then... I think agnostic/Christian might work. However, an atheist with a Christian is a recipe for disaster.
another good post, and i agree....i remember being forced to go places etc, and usually when you get forced to go places ie forced to go shopping (trivial i know) forced to go to kumon maths (some ****** extra maths lessons pimped by carol voderman) they were usually places that were boring, and places i didnt wanna be, and the more i was forced the more i hated it. i eventually told the maths guy to piss off, and i dont particularly like to go shopping now. lol! however i will admit that my mom was right with the maths thing....i did get better at it. but you never see it like that at the time
You have to understand your wife's point of view. For her, as a Christian, she believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. She has, presumably, prayed for salvation. Through that prayer, she will be going to heaven when she dies. She wants the same for her children (and possibly you, too) to join her there.
You really can't make "decisions" of this magnitude before marriage. People will change, and as they become more conscious of their own mortality, their values change.
This will be an endles source of frustration as you, your wife, and your kids get older.
Tell the boy to go to church. There is more going on there than a mere woshipping of "fantasies."
Even if he doesn't buy into it, it can't really do him any harm. Besides, he could stand to learn a little respect for others.
Why is that a great line? Why do you care so much?
Using your children as tools for your passive-aggressive nonsense with your wife is sickening. Your wife is right... you are making trouble and your children see this.
Atheists are full of it. If they really believe God didn't exist they wouldn't care at all... instead they are as adamant as a Muslim Imam in forcing their belief system on others.
Great advice. It may hurt the mom, but she has to hear it from the son if that is his conclusion. Then, she will know and will back off, and just pray. If she is a Christian, she will know prayer works on its own time schedule.
erikistired
Diamond Member
- Sep 27, 2000
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HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
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Originally posted by: DaShen
Great advice. It may hurt the mom, but she has to hear it from the son if that is his conclusion. Then, she will know and will back off, and just pray. If she is a Christian, she will know prayer works on its own time schedule.
Nice !!
:thumbsup:
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
- 33
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I will rephrase. I think politics AND religion (morals) are areas where BF and GF must be agreed upon in many ways before taking the step towards marriage. I mean, these two issues trickle down to such things as spanking your child or not. What would such a couple do in 5 years when little Joey comes along, misbehaves, and the parents can't agree on suitable punishment? Little Joey is going to totally play the parents off of each other. I am sure some of you have seen the show Super Nanny so you know exactly what I am talking about. Parents have to be able to at least agree to approach a child with a UNIFIED voice, whether they actually agree or not.
heroofpellinor should of seen what things my bro came up with when he was 14....theyre a damn sight worse than telling your mum he hates bible bashers
best is to ask her, if god is good he should allow good people who are good to other people into heaven regardless of faith
Listen, in all seriousness, I think respect for your parents should be your sons top priority. That should take precidence over his beliefs. I'm 33 and my parents are Christians, but I don't throw my beliefs in their face. If they want to have a discussion about it, sure. But I don't mock there beliefs in front of them. It is just a matter of respect for my parents. They come before anything else.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
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So true - and it just amazes me people marry without ever discussing these very fundamental issues. No wonder the divorce rate is so high!
From a Christian point of view the world is full of them. Watch discovery channel go to any science class... etc etc.
(just pointing out what a Christian might think in reply to your statement)
erikistired
Diamond Member
- Sep 27, 2000
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GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
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I would also like to add that I was raised in a religious family, definitely through the strong influence of my father. My mother often did not join us at church. Then again, at such a young age, religion meant squat to me. I didn't get it. Religion just meant rules I should follow. It wasn't until later in college, on my own, that I truly got what it means to be a Christian. Religion is certainly something that people have to come to on their own. All parents can truly do is try to lead them down certain paths that they will either later reject or deny.
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
- 33
- 81
Well, people get married for all the WRONG reasons these days: sex, power, money, etc. It's all become an act of selfishness instead of a desire to work as a TEAM to bring good children into the world.
sourceninja
Diamond Member
- Mar 8, 2005
- 8,805
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Let me tell you a story about how I stopped beliving in god.
I grew up in a catholic family. We went to church 2 times a week. I also went to classes 3 times a week to learn how to be catholic. When I was about 11 had questions. I asked my mother, she didn't have suitable answers. My father didn't either. He said I should trust in god or ask the priest. So I asked the priest and he told me asking those questions showed my lack of faith. He said I just had to believe. He also quoted things from the bible that didn't seem to have anything to do with the conversation, but as i was 11 they seemed important and swayed me for awhile. Fast forward 3 more years. I'm 14 years old its summer. My mom lost her job. Times are tough and we are having problems. I get a phone call from the church asking for my mother. She gets of the phone crying. I find out though being nosey that she was crying because they were getting on to her for not giving money the last few months in the offering plate. A few weeks later they sent us offering envalopes for my parents, and some for me (as if a 14 year old kid needs to worry about giving money to a church). I lost my faith right there. I came to the decision that religion is wrong on my own. My parents do not support me, they had no infulence, and I did it myself at 14 years old. My parents struggled for years to pay taxes, pay the church (to an aceptable percentage of their income), and feed us. If there is a god, he doesn't need money. He doesn't need churches. He doesn't need anything from me. I will live my life and be a good person. If thats not enough for god, if he needs my worship and begging for forgivness, then screw god. I'd rather burn in hell.
I grew up in a catholic family. We went to church 2 times a week. I also went to classes 3 times a week to learn how to be catholic. When I was about 11 had questions. I asked my mother, she didn't have suitable answers. My father didn't either. He said I should trust in god or ask the priest. So I asked the priest and he told me asking those questions showed my lack of faith. He said I just had to believe. He also quoted things from the bible that didn't seem to have anything to do with the conversation, but as i was 11 they seemed important and swayed me for awhile. Fast forward 3 more years. I'm 14 years old its summer. My mom lost her job. Times are tough and we are having problems. I get a phone call from the church asking for my mother. She gets of the phone crying. I find out though being nosey that she was crying because they were getting on to her for not giving money the last few months in the offering plate. A few weeks later they sent us offering envalopes for my parents, and some for me (as if a 14 year old kid needs to worry about giving money to a church). I lost my faith right there. I came to the decision that religion is wrong on my own. My parents do not support me, they had no infulence, and I did it myself at 14 years old. My parents struggled for years to pay taxes, pay the church (to an aceptable percentage of their income), and feed us. If there is a god, he doesn't need money. He doesn't need churches. He doesn't need anything from me. I will live my life and be a good person. If thats not enough for god, if he needs my worship and begging for forgivness, then screw god. I'd rather burn in hell.
I could say that about half of the "Christians" I know. That they are believers because their parent indoctrinated them into the belief. I am not saying this out of malice (I am just speaking the truth). Oh, and I come from a long line of Christians. My great-great grandfather started a church in Taiwan (his life story is fascinating).
He was part of a royal family that was overseeing part of Taiwan, but his family was slaughtered in the middle of the night and he was the only one to escape. Fast forward to adulthood, and he is now a witch doctor in a village nearby. His wife is constantly "attacked" in the middle of the night by unseen things. He tries all of his magic. and holistic, he goes to a Buddhist temple, he prays to his ancestors... nothing works. Finally, out of desperation he goes to a mission worker, they pray for his wife. The next day his wife stops having these "night terrors" at night. He immediately converts. His whole family converts and he starts a church in Taiwan.
I don't know my mom's side of the story, but I believe they came from China much later than my dad's side.
My point is, that you can be indoctrinated with any belief. It is when you research it and really make it your own, which can happen anytime, that it become your solid belief. I became a believer when I was 5 and my sister witnessed to me (I still remember it one of my ealriest childhood memories). I went to a Christian private school on the East Coast where as part of our curriculum we memorized chapters and verses in the Bible. It is not until late High School that I started to really read a lot about other religions and philosophy and theology, and later in college doing the same, that I can fully say that I know what I believe without it being because of my parent influence.
Originally posted by: DaShen
Good luck with that
I don't know what to say because I am Christian, but I wouldn't want to marry someone non-Christian for that very reason.
I find it annoying when my parents try to push religion and Christianity on me, even though I am Christian, it is a choice that I reaffirmed and made on my own while growing up, so I don't enjoy my mom trying to push her idealogues on me either (even though for the most part we agree). Lately she has been playing "Christian" hymns at home and in the car and everywhere, and singing with them whenever I am around. It is very frustrating because she doesn't realize that that just hurts my own relationship by her trying to manipulate things.
The best thing you can do is to realize that in her mind, you and your son are in desperate need of G-d. In your mind, it doesn't matter either way so it doesn't hurt you to see your wife or daughter worshipping, but it hurts her to see you and your son not. So in essense she is doing it out of love, no matter how annoying it is. I know my mother is doing it for the same reason, but I protest it and tell her, or I just listen to something else on my headphones until she quits, because she needs to stop trying to manipulate situations her way, like every other female I know out there, and let me live my life. :roll:
The best advice I have to give you is just let it pass. She won't change her mind on the situation, but explain to her in a calm way that you understand she is doing it out of her belief that you and your son are "lost", but you don't agree. Tell her that maybe the best thing she can do is just pray for you and your son, and try not to preach, because especially with guys, that will more than likely have the reverse affect.
That's pretty darn good advice.
I think communication is going to be the obvious key. Not only between you and your wife, but as a family. I understand the idea of not wanting to push anything on anyone, but there's a difference between that and general education. It sounds like the pressures of 'not pushing' have created a vacuum in knowledge and communication. It may be time to reach an agreement with your wife of some basic information on philosophy and religion that your son will need to eventually make up his own mind. 14 is the beginning of the questing phase for a lot of people. If your son feels that he can come to his parents for part of his information you'll develop a better relationship overall. I'm not suggesting taking part in religious services, more along the lines of some basic info on the history and differences of beliefs. Open family communication.
Once some basic info is exchanged, everyone has to back off and let him grow on his own. If either of you can't do that, then your relationship with your child (and probably each other) is pretty much over.
If you honestly feel that you haven't overtly manipulated him, then hold to that with pride. In my own experiences I'd say most often it's the religious types that have the control issues. If everything explodes and goes to crap, you'll always know that you acted correctly and in the best interests of the child. Shallow comfort (speaking from experience here), but at least it's something.
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