Christian and Athiest in the same house!

[erikistired]

...

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: hans030390
I'm thinking your son could have been a bit more respectful. I'm christian, and I respect other's beliefs, and I dont think she should be pushing the kids to believe anything. I dont think you should try putting anything on them either, which it sounds like you haven't.

The problem is that most Christian's can not see the perspective of the non-believer. As a Christian, you can not judge a non-believer by the same code of ethics that you have. And it is a fine line between telling someone who is willing to listen and proselytizing. I have a close friend that is stubborn and gets irritated whenever anyone talks about religion, so I choose not to talk about those things unless he brings them up. I pray for him, and try to treat him with as much respect as I can give, but that is it.

We don't have enough information to see if the wife was actually encouraging the son to go, or heavy handedly pushing the son to go (which it sounds like she was doing the latter).

One of my coworkers, she "preaches to everyone, and when she found out a coworker was lesbian, she judged her and said she was sinning (who isn't, and the person isn't even Christian <so no need to rebuke just point out that all people sin and are not able to be sinless> ). She is one of the people that people don't talk to, and gives Christians a bad name, but I am sure she is a "model" Christian in her own life. My coworkers know I am a believer, but they also know that I won't preach to them. Rather I will show them by action, and if they approach me about the subject I am more than able to talk about it.

The problem is that his son has clearly been indoctrinated the other way. Referring to religeon as "believing in fantasies" evinces a closed mind towards beliefs other than his and obviously indicates his father isn't "fairly" answering his sons questions. Point of fact, there are no questions about atheism.....people are atheist based on having nothing else worthy, to them, to believe in, so they're probably spending the majority of their time discussuing religeon and not atheism so the kid is getting the skewed opinion of his father.

edited out.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Just f'ing die Hero...seriously man, I can't stand you any longer.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Czar
you are looking at this the wrong way

the boy is 14 year old
his mother is trying to make him do something he doesnt want to do

yeah he's 14. he's still a minor. life is all about doing things you don't want to do. DEAL WITH IT. when he's 18 and moves out of mommy and daddy's house then he can do whatever he wants.

wtf is wrong with people these days that they think 14 year olds get to make decisions?

I don't think you can talk about religions in those terms, especially when one parent is an atheist.
Religion is one thing people of whatever age SHOULD be able to decide for themselves. If you think otherwise I hope you never have children.

i have two children. my wife wants to take them to church and that's fine with me. i've personally been struggling with religion lately, but i'm certainly not going to push my children in that direction. until they are on their own they are living in our house and i have no problem with my wife taking them to church and exposing them to it. my parents made me go to church until i moved out of their house, and i'm certainly not brainwashed.

kids are brats these days and this is part of it. i'm sorry, but i'm not going to let my kids run my house and i certainly wouldn't tolerate either of them treating their mother like the OP let his kid treat his wife. the fact that he had to leave the room so he didn't laugh at her is so beyond pathetic.

The being rude part isn't acceptable, and he should be punished for it, but he should be allowed to express and hold his own views, in a reasonable fashion.

he isn't holding his own views. for the third time, most likely he's seen dad saying the same thing to mom and saw her get upset and thought "wow i can get out of getting up sunday morning and sitting through church if i say the same thing." i was 14 once, and i know what it's like to want to sleep in on sunday. i also work around kids that age (paintball field) and i see them constantly saying things to their parents just to get a rise out of them. it's part of being an a'hole teenager and too many parents let it slide these days.

that's simplistic to the extreme, not to mention you're assuming you know what goes on and what the kid has seen.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: kogase
So basically we've got fisher (kids are your slaves), purbeast (atheists are trying to take over the world and are all in my face yo), HeroOfPellinor (all of the above times 50). People are jumping to some pretty ridiculous conclusions based on the information found in this thread. Seeing as how nobody knows the entire situation I don't think anybody is justified in doing that. However, if you were going to jump to any conclusions based on the information we have been given it's that the kid was disrespectful, but the mom sounds like a hardcore bitch anyway.

kids aren't your slaves. i said that nowhere. but kids aren't supposed to be running the house either. i had to do things that sucked when i was a kid, and when i moved out i decided what i wanted to do. but that's LIFE. kids are so out of control these days it's saddening. these days kids feel like they are entitled to start running their lives at 14? wtf? then get a job and move out. oh wait you can't? you rely on me to support you? then stfu.

of course there are limits to this, but the change from when i was 14 to 14 year olds now is HUGE.

Very true. The kid needs to learn respect, but chances are he was exasperrated from the constant nagging from his mother.

He should probably think it over, and realize that if he is truly an Atheist, that going to church probably won't hurt his belief, and he might evn find out some things and meet some people he likes.

But the mother should also be less "naggy".

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Personally I wish it was a class A felony for anyone under 18 to attend religious services. People have to wait till 16 to drive, 18 to vote, and 21 to drink. I have no clue why they're not required to put off religious decisions until they're able to properly process the entire body of available information.

Imagine how angry you'd be if some religious people tried to make it a felony not to bring your minor child to religious services, and yet you propose essentially the same thing, only reversed? :roll:

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Sorry to say, but decisions about religion should be made BEFORE marriage. Otherwise, I think you're setting yourself up for disaster.

QFT! How did you two even end up together? It defies logic. An atheist and a Christian are inherently incompatible, unless the Christian is merely a nominal Christian (as are many these days).

Not true. The factor that matters is respect. If they can respect each others beliefs, it can work. Same as any two different belief systems I imagine.

 

[amicold]

Originally posted by: DurocShark
As some of you may know, I'm an athiest and my wife is Christian. We've always respected each others beliefs, and agreed to let the kids decide for themselves their own beliefs.

The past few years my 14 year old son has been leaning towards athiesm. I don't encourage it, but will answer questions as fairly as possible.

My 2.5 year old daughter has been going to church with my wife nearly every day (my wife does child care at her church for 2-3 hours per day). So my daughter's being thoroughly indoctrinated. I don't complain. She'll find her own way when she's old enough.

Well, lately my wife has been trying to get our son to go to church and participate in the teen ministry's events. Yesterday he finally said, "Why would I want to go listen to a bunch of people worshipping their fantasies?" I had to leave the room. That was a great line! But I didn't want to make my wife look like a fool by laughing.

So last night my wife started yelling at me about his athiesm and how it's my fault. WTF? I asked, "How is that different than our daughter coming home singing Christian songs and you hanging Christian propaganda all over the house? Do you see any Darwin posters anywhere? Do you hear me quoting from athiest writings? YOU'RE the one pushing your beliefs on the kids."

It quickly became one of those times where she starts yelling and screaming and I sit there letting her vent before replying, then listening to more.

Anybody dealt with this before? Any suggestions?

CLIFFS:
I'm athiest, wife's Christian.
One child is becoming athiest and expressing it.
Wife blames me.

PIIHB, and stat. She'll shut up.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: hans030390
I'm thinking your son could have been a bit more respectful. I'm christian, and I respect other's beliefs, and I dont think she should be pushing the kids to believe anything. I dont think you should try putting anything on them either, which it sounds like you haven't.

The problem is that most Christian's can not see the perspective of the non-believer. As a Christian, you can not judge a non-believer by the same code of ethics that you have. And it is a fine line between telling someone who is willing to listen and proselytizing. I have a close friend that is stubborn and gets irritated whenever anyone talks about religion, so I choose not to talk about those things unless he brings them up. I pray for him, and try to treat him with as much respect as I can give, but that is it.

We don't have enough information to see if the wife was actually encouraging the son to go, or heavy handedly pushing the son to go (which it sounds like she was doing the latter).

One of my coworkers, she "preaches to everyone, and when she found out a coworker was lesbian, she judged her and said she was sinning (who isn't, and the person isn't even Christian <so no need to rebuke just point out that all people sin and are not able to be sinless> ). She is one of the people that people don't talk to, and gives Christians a bad name, but I am sure she is a "model" Christian in her own life. My coworkers know I am a believer, but they also know that I won't preach to them. Rather I will show them by action, and if they approach me about the subject I am more than able to talk about it.

The problem is that his son has clearly been indoctrinated the other way. Referring to religeon as "believing in fantasies" evinces a closed mind towards beliefs other than his and obviously indicates his father isn't "fairly" answering his sons questions. Point of fact, there are no questions about atheism.....people are atheist based on having nothing else worthy, to them, to believe in, so they're probably spending the majority of their time discussuing religeon and not atheism so the kid is getting the skewed opinion of his father.

edited out.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Just f'ing die Hero...seriously man, I can't stand you any longer.

LOL! I read that before you edited it. Be happy I didn't quote you.

Temper, temper Mo Capitain.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Well, lately my wife has been trying to get our son to go to church and participate in the teen ministry's events. Yesterday he finally said, "Why would I want to go listen to a bunch of people worshipping their fantasies?" I had to leave the room. That was a great line! But I didn't want to make my wife look like a fool by laughing.

All the proof one needs that atheism is a competing faith can be seen in the instinctual need of its followers to attack other faiths.
Were it a logical, scientific belief (like agnosticism for example), it would be tolerant.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: kogase
So basically we've got fisher (kids are your slaves), purbeast (atheists are trying to take over the world and are all in my face yo), HeroOfPellinor (all of the above times 50). People are jumping to some pretty ridiculous conclusions based on the information found in this thread. Seeing as how nobody knows the entire situation I don't think anybody is justified in doing that. However, if you were going to jump to any conclusions based on the information we have been given it's that the kid was disrespectful, but the mom sounds like a hardcore bitch anyway.

QFT, except the b!@#!# part. She does sound really controlling though.

We are only getting one side though, in all fairness.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Sorry to say, but decisions about religion should be made BEFORE marriage. Otherwise, I think you're setting yourself up for disaster.

You have to understand your wife's point of view. For her, as a Christian, she believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. She has, presumably, prayed for salvation. Through that prayer, she will be going to heaven when she dies. She wants the same for her children (and possibly you, too) to join her there.

You really can't make "decisions" of this magnitude before marriage. People will change, and as they become more conscious of their own mortality, their values change.

This will be an endles source of frustration as you, your wife, and your kids get older.

Tell the boy to go to church. There is more going on there than a mere woshipping of "fantasies."

Even if he doesn't buy into it, it can't really do him any harm. Besides, he could stand to learn a little respect for others.

Couldn't disagree more. That sends the message that doing what you don't believe in is ok, and that manipulation and guilt are valid tactics...even when used against loved ones.

Yes, he needs help with respect and debate skills. Yes, he should be provided information on all forms of religious and philosophical thought. No, that doesn't need to come from a church.

If you force kids into stuff they're that opposed to, you will not only lose their respect, you may lose the kids. They will rebel even harder, and could get into serious trouble from it. Respect is a mutual game.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: fisher
kids aren't your slaves. i said that nowhere. but kids aren't supposed to be running the house either. i had to do things that sucked when i was a kid, and when i moved out i decided what i wanted to do. but that's LIFE. kids are so out of control these days it's saddening. these days kids feel like they are entitled to start running their lives at 14? wtf? then get a job and move out. oh wait you can't? you rely on me to support you? then stfu.

of course there are limits to this, but the change from when i was 14 to 14 year olds now is HUGE.

Fair enough, I jumped to my conclusion because you sounded pretty fanatical to me.

 

[notfred]

I haven't read the thread, just the first post.

That said, this is both you and yor wife's fault. You got married without really considering the problems of trying to raise kids with two different value sets. When you've got one partner who thinks her husband is going to burn in hell, and another who thinks his wife is "worshipping her fantasies", it's bound to cause a bit of friction.

OF COURSE your wife is going to want your kids to be Christian. She doesn't want them to go to hell, like she thinks you're going to. She's going to have a hard time convincing them that it's true though, when dad thinks it's a load of crap.

This is why you marry people with similar values to yourself. One of the main purposes of getting married is to raise a family, and it's helpful if you both are trying to do it the same way.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
We are only getting one side though, in all fairness.

I guess that was the point I was trying to make. I didn't want to come right out and say it though because of how biased I am against Christianity.

 

[Zeeky Boogy Doog]

The kid is obviously lashing out, sounds like the mother has been pushing him to go to church for some time and the kid didn't want to. I don't know about you, but I remember what I thought when I was 14 (only 17 now though...) and quite honestly I knew I didn't want to be there. I didn't like the people the, I didn't like them constantly telling me I was going to hell if I didn't listen to them. Then I started listening to their sermons (sp?) and I found their "kind and merciful" god to be a joke, then I had to go for about two more years and started disliking hte people even more. After I moved to the church I went to here for a year the kids would come in Sunday morning with a hangover, wtf? Sounds like people I want to party with, not go to church with...
There was a time in there I started reconsidering my views, I had a christian gf, and after several discussions with her I started reading through the bible a little bit again, reevaluating. I ended up on the same conclusion, but I did relook it over.
The boy needs to be presented with the information from a nonfamily viewpoint so he can evaluate the information and come to his own conclusion, in the meantime, the mother needs to back off and the dad shouldn't let the kid talk to his mother like that.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Personally I wish it was a class A felony for anyone under 18 to attend religious services. People have to wait till 16 to drive, 18 to vote, and 21 to drink. I have no clue why they're not required to put off religious decisions until they're able to properly process the entire body of available information.

Imagine how angry you'd be if some religious people tried to make it a felony not to bring your minor child to religious services, and yet you propose essentially the same thing, only reversed? :roll:

Atheists need to realize that there beliefs are just as "without" proof or fact as a believer in G-d, and they just believe the polar opposite.

Agnostics at least acknowledge that there is no way to prove either way (which is the most logical), but there belief requires no faith or belief, and can somehow seem without purpose. Purpose and drive is what makes humans great, but again they are the most logical. But a "free" choice presented by G-d cannot have proof or bias, otherwise it isn't a choice now is it. (Platinga Defense)

Science was spurred and financed by religion for millenia. They aren't polar opposites. Belief in G-d and nonbelief in G-d are polar opposites.

 

[swimscubasteve]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: kogase
So basically we've got fisher (kids are your slaves), purbeast (atheists are trying to take over the world and are all in my face yo), HeroOfPellinor (all of the above times 50). People are jumping to some pretty ridiculous conclusions based on the information found in this thread. Seeing as how nobody knows the entire situation I don't think anybody is justified in doing that. However, if you were going to jump to any conclusions based on the information we have been given it's that the kid was disrespectful, but the mom sounds like a hardcore bitch anyway.

kids aren't your slaves. i said that nowhere. but kids aren't supposed to be running the house either. i had to do things that sucked when i was a kid, and when i moved out i decided what i wanted to do. but that's LIFE. kids are so out of control these days it's saddening. these days kids feel like they are entitled to start running their lives at 14? wtf? then get a job and move out. oh wait you can't? you rely on me to support you? then stfu.

of course there are limits to this, but the change from when i was 14 to 14 year olds now is HUGE.

werd! I have been a boy's camp counselor for a number of years and I soooo don't put up with kids being little sh*ts.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Personally I wish it was a class A felony for anyone under 18 to attend religious services. People have to wait till 16 to drive, 18 to vote, and 21 to drink. I have no clue why they're not required to put off religious decisions until they're able to properly process the entire body of available information.

Imagine how angry you'd be if some religious people tried to make it a felony not to bring your minor child to religious services, and yet you propose essentially the same thing, only reversed? :roll:

Yep. Every "there oughta be a law!" proposal like this needs to be looked at reversed. You think it should be illegal for kids to attend religious services? What if is was illegal for them NOT to? You think it should be illegal to allow smoking in bars? What if it was illegal NOT to? And on and on. Everytime you seek to create a law specifically for the purpose of your prejudice, you damn well better think about what your prejudice would look like reversed.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Yesterday he finally said, "Why would I want to go listen to a bunch of people worshipping their fantasies?" I had to leave the room. That was a great line! But I didn't want to make my wife look like a fool by laughing.

You sound like a real jerk. Kids don't come up with stuff like that on their own and certainly wouldn't be so disrespectful to his mother unless he was following your example. Congrats.

You nailed this one. :thumbsup:

The only thing he 'nailed' is another nail into the coffin of his bigotry and stupidity. Please don't encourage the worthless wastes of human flesh.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Sorry to say, but decisions about religion should be made BEFORE marriage. Otherwise, I think you're setting yourself up for disaster.

QFT! How did you two even end up together? It defies logic. An atheist and a Christian are inherently incompatible, unless the Christian is merely a nominal Christian (as are many these days).

Not true. The factor that matters is respect. If they can respect each others beliefs, it can work. Same as any two different belief systems I imagine.

The same kind of respect you've shown me? Oh ya.....give me some more of that please. :roll:

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: sourceninja
Let me tell you a story about how I stopped beliving in god.

I grew up in a catholic family. We went to church 2 times a week. I also went to classes 3 times a week to learn how to be catholic. When I was about 11 had questions. I asked my mother, she didn't have suitable answers. My father didn't either. He said I should trust in god or ask the priest. So I asked the priest and he told me asking those questions showed my lack of faith. He said I just had to believe. He also quoted things from the bible that didn't seem to have anything to do with the conversation, but as i was 11 they seemed important and swayed me for awhile. Fast forward 3 more years. I'm 14 years old its summer. My mom lost her job. Times are tough and we are having problems. I get a phone call from the church asking for my mother. She gets of the phone crying. I find out though being nosey that she was crying because they were getting on to her for not giving money the last few months in the offering plate. A few weeks later they sent us offering envalopes for my parents, and some for me (as if a 14 year old kid needs to worry about giving money to a church). I lost my faith right there. I came to the decision that religion is wrong on my own. My parents do not support me, they had no infulence, and I did it myself at 14 years old. My parents struggled for years to pay taxes, pay the church (to an aceptable percentage of their income), and feed us. If there is a god, he doesn't need money. He doesn't need churches. He doesn't need anything from me. I will live my life and be a good person. If thats not enough for god, if he needs my worship and begging for forgivness, the screw god. I'd rather burn in hell.

:thumbsup:

religion should be about being a good person

Of course, 'good' is an ambiguous word today. But my problem with sourceninja's conclusion is that it's a logical fallacy; poor behavior by some "Christians" doesn't really go to the central question of theism any more than poor behavior by atheists (think Stalin's mass murder, for example) proves there is a God.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Vic
Yep. Every "there oughta be a law!" proposal like this needs to be looked at reversed. You think it should be illegal for kids to attend religious services? What if is was illegal for them NOT to? You think it should be illegal to allow smoking in bars? What if it was illegal NOT to? And on and on. Everytime you seek to create a law specifically for the purpose of your prejudice, you damn well better think about what your prejudice would look like reversed.

Exactly. It is saying to take an objective look at things and look at it from the other person's POV.

 

[swimscubasteve]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Personally I wish it was a class A felony for anyone under 18 to attend religious services. People have to wait till 16 to drive, 18 to vote, and 21 to drink. I have no clue why they're not required to put off religious decisions until they're able to properly process the entire body of available information.

Imagine how angry you'd be if some religious people tried to make it a felony not to bring your minor child to religious services, and yet you propose essentially the same thing, only reversed? :roll:

Atheists need to realize that there beliefs are just as "without" proof or fact as a believer in G-d, and they just believe the polar opposite.

Agnostics at least acknowledge that there is no way to prove either way (which is the most logical), but there belief requires no faith or belief, and can somehow seem without purpose. Purpose and drive is what makes humans great, but again they are the most logical. But a "free" choice presented by G-d cannot have proof or bias, otherwise it isn't a choice now is it. (Platinga Defense)

Science was spurred and financed by religion for millenia. They aren't polar opposites. Belief in G-d and nonbelief in G-d are polar opposites.

English motherfvcker, do you speak it!?

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Mursilis
Of course, 'good' is an ambiguous word today. But my problem with sourceninja's conclusion is that it's a logical fallacy; poor behavior by some "Christians" doesn't really go to the central question of theism any more than poor behavior by atheists (think Stalin's mass murder, for example) proves there is a God.

Logical posts and objective views need a QFT, and also bolsters my viewpoint on the people of ATOT.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: swimscubasteve

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Personally I wish it was a class A felony for anyone under 18 to attend religious services. People have to wait till 16 to drive, 18 to vote, and 21 to drink. I have no clue why they're not required to put off religious decisions until they're able to properly process the entire body of available information.

Imagine how angry you'd be if some religious people tried to make it a felony not to bring your minor child to religious services, and yet you propose essentially the same thing, only reversed? :roll:

Atheists need to realize that there beliefs are just as "without" proof or fact as a believer in G-d, and they just believe the polar opposite.

Agnostics at least acknowledge that there is no way to prove either way (which is the most logical), but there belief requires no faith or belief, and can somehow seem without purpose. Purpose and drive is what makes humans great, but again they are the most logical. But a "free" choice presented by G-d cannot have proof or bias, otherwise it isn't a choice now is it. (Platinga Defense)

Science was spurred and financed by religion for millenia. They aren't polar opposites. Belief in G-d and nonbelief in G-d are polar opposites.

English motherfvcker, do you speak it!?

People in here need to cool it! Christians and non-Christians.

Do we really have to sink so low as to resort to name calling?