Choose 7 people to survive.

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nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
5,949
2
76
Er, first come first serve? I don't think it should be up to healthcare providers to set the moral compass for the nation.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: nonameo
Er, first come first serve? I don't think it should be up to healthcare providers to set the moral compass for the nation.
That's one way to do it.

or randomization.
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
Originally posted by: Lothar
Here's my list with Brenda Kim being my top choice.

Originally posted by: Lothar
1. Thomas Lopez: Puerto Rican, 23 years old, on death row in Louisiana State Prison, convicted of the kidnap/rape/murder of two little girls ages 8 and 11.
Die.

2. Keisha Cunningham: 12 years old, sickle cell patient, African American, IQ 85, only child of father who is in prison and mother who is crack cocaine addicted.
Live.

3. Baby Boy Doe: 5 months old, African American, abandoned by mother in hospital at birth, Down Syndrome, no other known relatives.
Die.

4. Dr. Sylvester Washington: 45 years old, white, HIV+, Ph.D. in Romance languages, closet homosexual, married with two teenaged sons.
Die.

5. Martin Running Water: 89 years old, Native American, perfect health, runs 3 miles every day, married, 6 children, 20 grandchildren, 11 great-grandchildren.
Live.

6. Sheryl Lu: Asian American, 19 years old, asthma, heroin addict, three children ages 4 years, 2 years, and 11 months, never married.
Die.

7. Beauregard Fairfax Montgomery, IV: 29 years old, white, arrested for embezzling funds from family owned business, Grand Dragon in the Ku Klux Klan, pregnant wife, twin daughters age 3.
Live.

8. Gladys Spaulding Spencer Wentworth: 69 years old, very rich white lady, divorced three times, no children, no health problems.
Live.

9. Jean Louis Rennard: Haitian, 41 years old, arrived in U.S. as a boat person, in this country illegally, married, 4 children, diabetic, obese, alcoholic.
Die.

10. Boo Phelps: African American, 16 years old, high school drip-out, indicted for murder in drive-by shooting of two other teenagers, sings in teen choir at Second Baptist Church, father of three daughters (ages 3 years, 2 years, and 20 months), never married.
Die.

11. Dr. Benjamin Kim: Korean American, 49 years old, pharmacist, arrested for Medicaid-Medicare fraud, on dialysis, needs kidney transplant.
Die.

12. Mrs. Louise Kim: Korean American, 35 years old, pharmacy clerk, mother of Brenda (#13), and wife of Dr. (#11).
Live.

13. Brenda Kim: Korean American, 10 years old, straight-A student, violin prodigy, has leukemia.
Live.

14. George Webster: white, 25 years old, schizophrenic.
Live.
I was accused of not having feelings because I was the only one who didn't pick the baby.
Too many resources.
I would have chosen the same except to let #2 die and #11 live. That way you can keep the family together. He might have been hit with Medicaid fraud for trying to get his daughter help? Dunno, but White collar crime isn't something people normally go about making a career of once they get caught, unlike some violent crimes.

Interesting how the IQ for #2 is listed as 85. The average IQ for a black person is 85. So it isn't really a factor that should be listed. http://library.flawlesslogic.com/iq.htm
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
6
76
6. Sheryl Lu: Asian American, 19 years old, asthma, heroin addict, three children ages 4 years, 2 years, and 11 months, never married.


Reasoning is that she is young, asthma is easily treated, and heroin user is something she can stop if she wants to and she remains healthy.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: nonameo
Er, first come first serve? I don't think it should be up to healthcare providers to set the moral compass for the nation.
What if the person at the back of the ER line was complaining of chest pain, shortness of breath; while the person who's turn it next came for pain from a broken ligament?

Granted he may be lying to seek medical care first, or he may actually be telling the truth and have a heart attack or a myocardial infraction on the spot.

As a healthcare provider, you can't tell unless you evaluate and diagnose the patient yourself.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: gotsmack
Originally posted by: Lothar
Here's my list with Brenda Kim being my top choice.

Originally posted by: Lothar
1. Thomas Lopez: Puerto Rican, 23 years old, on death row in Louisiana State Prison, convicted of the kidnap/rape/murder of two little girls ages 8 and 11.
Die.

2. Keisha Cunningham: 12 years old, sickle cell patient, African American, IQ 85, only child of father who is in prison and mother who is crack cocaine addicted.
Live.

3. Baby Boy Doe: 5 months old, African American, abandoned by mother in hospital at birth, Down Syndrome, no other known relatives.
Die.

4. Dr. Sylvester Washington: 45 years old, white, HIV+, Ph.D. in Romance languages, closet homosexual, married with two teenaged sons.
Die.

5. Martin Running Water: 89 years old, Native American, perfect health, runs 3 miles every day, married, 6 children, 20 grandchildren, 11 great-grandchildren.
Live.

6. Sheryl Lu: Asian American, 19 years old, asthma, heroin addict, three children ages 4 years, 2 years, and 11 months, never married.
Die.

7. Beauregard Fairfax Montgomery, IV: 29 years old, white, arrested for embezzling funds from family owned business, Grand Dragon in the Ku Klux Klan, pregnant wife, twin daughters age 3.
Live.

8. Gladys Spaulding Spencer Wentworth: 69 years old, very rich white lady, divorced three times, no children, no health problems.
Live.

9. Jean Louis Rennard: Haitian, 41 years old, arrived in U.S. as a boat person, in this country illegally, married, 4 children, diabetic, obese, alcoholic.
Die.

10. Boo Phelps: African American, 16 years old, high school drip-out, indicted for murder in drive-by shooting of two other teenagers, sings in teen choir at Second Baptist Church, father of three daughters (ages 3 years, 2 years, and 20 months), never married.
Die.

11. Dr. Benjamin Kim: Korean American, 49 years old, pharmacist, arrested for Medicaid-Medicare fraud, on dialysis, needs kidney transplant.
Die.

12. Mrs. Louise Kim: Korean American, 35 years old, pharmacy clerk, mother of Brenda (#13), and wife of Dr. (#11).
Live.

13. Brenda Kim: Korean American, 10 years old, straight-A student, violin prodigy, has leukemia.
Live.

14. George Webster: white, 25 years old, schizophrenic.
Live.
I was accused of not having feelings because I was the only one who didn't pick the baby.
Too many resources.
I would have chosen the same except to let #2 die and #11 live. That way you can keep the family together. He might have been hit with Medicaid fraud for trying to get his daughter help? Dunno, but White collar crime isn't something people normally go about making a career of once they get caught, unlike some violent crimes.

Interesting how the IQ for #2 is listed as 85. The average IQ for a black person is 85. So it isn't really a factor that should be listed. http://library.flawlesslogic.com/iq.htm
Regarding #11...
Who knows why/who he was commiting fraud for? He makes enough money to be commiting fraud.

I thought about keeping the family together.
He got the ax (maybe unfairly) because he's a disgrace to my profession.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: Modelworks
6. Sheryl Lu: Asian American, 19 years old, asthma, heroin addict, three children ages 4 years, 2 years, and 11 months, never married.


Reasoning is that she is young, asthma is easily treated, and heroin user is something she can stop if she wants to and she remains healthy.
What about your remaining six?
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
I voted before I read the description and chose randomly. I guess maybe there's some merit to that?
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
Originally posted by: lozina
Screw those people.

I choose

1. Me
2. My dad
3. My mom
4. My brother
5. Jessica Alba
6. Scarlette Johanson
7. Angelina Jolie

that was easy
Man, if there were only two people left on earth it'd be interesting in your scenario...
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
1. Thomas Lopez: Puerto Rican, 23 years old, on death row in Louisiana State Prison, convicted of the kidnap/rape/murder of two little girls ages 8 and 11.

2. Keisha Cunningham: 12 years old, sickle cell patient, African American, IQ 85, only child of father who is in prison and mother who is crack cocaine addicted.

3. Baby Boy Doe: 5 months old, African American, abandoned by mother in hospital at birth, Down Syndrome, no other known relatives.

4. Dr. Sylvester Washington: 45 years old, white, HIV+, Ph.D. in Romance languages, closet homosexual, married with two teenaged sons.

5. Martin Running Water: 89 years old, Native American, perfect health, runs 3 miles every day, married, 6 children, 20 grandchildren, 11 great-grandchildren.

6. Sheryl Lu: Asian American, 19 years old, asthma, heroin addict, three children ages 4 years, 2 years, and 11 months, never married.

7. Beauregard Fairfax Montgomery, IV: 29 years old, white, arrested for embezzling funds from family owned business, Grand Dragon in the Ku Klux Klan, pregnant wife, twin daughters age 3.

8. Gladys Spaulding Spencer Wentworth: 69 years old, very rich white lady, divorced three times, no children, no health problems.

9. Jean Louis Rennard: Haitian, 41 years old, arrived in U.S. as a boat person, in this country illegally, married, 4 children, diabetic, obese, alcoholic.

10. Boo Phelps: African American, 16 years old, high school drip-out, indicted for murder in drive-by shooting of two other teenagers, sings in teen choir at Second Baptist Church, father of three daughters (ages 3 years, 2 years, and 20 months), never married.

11. Dr. Benjamin Kim: Korean American, 49 years old, pharmacist, arrested for Medicaid-Medicare fraud, on dialysis, needs kidney transplant.

12. Mrs. Louise Kim: Korean American, 35 years old, pharmacy clerk, mother of Brenda (#13), and wife of Dr. (#11).

13. Brenda Kim: Korean American, 10 years old, straight-A student, violin prodigy, has leukemia.

14. George Webster: white, 25 years old, schizophrenic.

Survive:
12-raised a good child
13
8
4-HIV does not kill nearly as many anymore if you treat it correctly.
2
14
5-feel bad doing it, but just had to

Can't save:
3-absolutely the hardest choice
11-medicare fraud is just a fancy way of stealing
9-obese, alcoholic, diabetic...doesn't care about life anyway
7-KKK believes in the killing of innocent people, and committed crimes
10-murderer
6-drug user, doesn't care about their own life or her childrens lives anyway
1-murderer

I tried to leave out family and just took the person at face value. Having kids does not make you any more entitled to life. People who commit murder don't get a lighter sentance becuase they happen to have kids. Just the way it happened was to pick between the old guy in perfect health or the baby with down syndrome. I feel bad writing it out, but that is how I think I would choose.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Suprised no one voted "Baby Boy Doe" as their 1st survive choice.

Perhaps the females of ATOT haven't logged on or seen this thread yet.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
I think this is just a troll bait thread to find out who hates gays, who likes the KKK, and who thinks rapists are pretty cool guys.

All in all, I lol'd.

Here is my list.

1. Thomas Lopez: Slaughter him like the pig he is. DIE

2. Keisha Cunningham: She has a chance and hasn't done anything wrong. Live!

3. Baby Boy Doe: Hasn't done anything wrong, DS people can work, even if it's just as a cashier or drive through. Live!

4. Dr. Sylvester Washington: Only thing he did wrong was failing to figure out if he's gay before having children. He's not a bad man, and can love his children and even his wife regardless of his sexual preference. Live!

5. Martin Running Water: An upstanding citizen. Live!

6. Sheryl Lu: Not impressive at all, children could go for adoption. Die.

7. Beauregard Fairfax Montgomery, IV: Slaughter him like the dog he is. DIE

8. Gladys Spaulding Spencer Wentworth: Useless. Die

9. Jean Louis Rennard: Not impressive, and there were better choices. Die

10. Boo Phelps: Screwed up, could fix his life, but other people were more impressive. Die

11. Dr. Benjamin Kim: Perhaps he commited medicare-fraud to get a kidney, he is a father and a doctor. Live!

12. Mrs. Louise Kim: Working, healthy, mother of Brenda. Live!

13. Brenda Kim: Innocient girl, has potential. Live!

14. George Webster: Not impressive, mentally unstable. Die
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,581
0
0
How is it ethical at all to make value judgments like this? I say pick one objective criteria like age, and just do them all like that.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,244
498
126
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: nonameo
Er, first come first serve? I don't think it should be up to healthcare providers to set the moral compass for the nation.
What if the person at the back of the ER line was complaining of chest pain, shortness of breath; while the person who's turn it next came for pain from a broken ligament?
which is nothing like the 'pick who dies' hypothetical

in fact, there is no real world situation where that hypothetical will be relevant

you will always try to save everyone
 

mrSHEiK124

Lifer
Mar 6, 2004
11,491
2
0
Originally posted by: Josh
Originally posted by: lozina
Screw those people.

I choose

1. Me
2. My dad
3. My mom
4. My brother
5. Jessica Alba
6. Scarlette Johanson
7. Angelina Jolie

that was easy
1. Me
2. My dad
3. My mom
4. My brother
5. Scarlett Johanson
6. Jessica Biel
7. Kim Kardashian
Fail. Jolie > Queen Badonkadonk. Alba > Biel.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: tynopik
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: nonameo
Er, first come first serve? I don't think it should be up to healthcare providers to set the moral compass for the nation.
What if the person at the back of the ER line was complaining of chest pain, shortness of breath; while the person who's turn it next came for pain from a broken ligament?
which is nothing like the 'pick who dies' hypothetical

in fact, there is no real world situation where that hypothetical will be relevant

you will always try to save everyone
Agreed.

The choice for me was to either pick 7, argue with her, or not do the assignment and get an "F".
I chose the first.
 

Chronoshock

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
4,860
1
81
Pick 7 randomly (or as someone stated, the first 7 to show up to the hospital) because any metric you use to judge patients will inevitably fail. It is impossible to know everything about a patient, let alone judge their future impact based on their current condition. While certain factors (such as socio-economic class) are good heuristics, for a sample size of 7, the variance is far to high to make a sound choice. Time spent deciding on who to treat is time wasted on treating others. The Hippocratic oath dictates to do no harm, and harm can be brought about by inaction or denial of treatment.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
How is it ethical at all to make value judgments like this? I say pick one objective criteria like age, and just do them all like that.
So...is your choice to kill all the older people or the younger people?
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
18
81
Originally posted by: Lothar

Agreed.

The choice for me was to either pick 7, argue with her, or not do the assignment and get an "F".
I chose the first.
This is one of the licks I would have taken.

because:
1. Thomas Lopez: Puerto Rican, 23 years old, on death row in Louisiana State Prison, convicted of the kidnap/rape/murder of two little girls ages 8 and 11.
court later found out witnesses conspired against him, at 55 he was acquitted; serving almost his entire life in jail...two weeks after he was released he was found dead of suicide.

2. Keisha Cunningham: 12 years old, sickle cell patient, African American, IQ 85, only child of father who is in prison and mother who is crack cocaine addicted.
Keisha although to most would have been non-existant and a possible 'problem', however; she got sponsered at a local retirement village. EVERYONE wants her to bring them their breakfast, she is so enlightening.

3. Baby Boy Doe: 5 months old, African American, abandoned by mother in hospital at birth, Down Syndrome, no other known relatives.
He grows, most of those who witness his life feel sorry for him but comment: he always seems happy.

4. Dr. Sylvester Washington: 45 years old, white, HIV+, Ph.D. in Romance languages, closet homosexual, married with two teenaged sons.
Born before homosexuality was accepted and suffered the 'gay plague'. Two of those that labeled him acquired HIV from heterosexual relationships. Although his wife felt a victim at first, she is still HIV free and they vacation together with their adult sons and their SO's

5. Martin Running Water: 89 years old, Native American, perfect health, runs 3 miles every day, married, 6 children, 20 grandchildren, 11 great-grandchildren.
Unfortunately Martin was saved but the next day on his morning run a motorist had a blow out on a brand new tire and could not avoid him. He died on the scene doing what he loved.

6. Sheryl Lu: Asian American, 19 years old, asthma, heroin addict, three children ages 4 years, 2 years, and 11 months, never married.
Sheryl Lu had all the makings of the next great pediatrician. Unfortunately in med school as an exchange student not knowing the culture she met an abuser who tricked her into a life of slavery...she facilitated his graduation at the expense of her life. His wealthy family guaranteed her demise.

7. Beauregard Fairfax Montgomery, IV: 29 years old, white, arrested for embezzling funds from family owned business, Grand Dragon in the Ku Klux Klan, pregnant wife, twin daughters age 3.
'Beau' as he is known by his circle, preaches hate and self promotion at the expense of anyone in your way. At 18, he was given the free reign of his family's multi-million dollar business. Beau used this to further his life into hate and self-promotion...the day after he is saved one of his daughters is abduced and found 2 days later dismembered.

8. Gladys Spaulding Spencer Wentworth: 69 years old, very rich white lady, divorced three times, no children, no health problems.
Gladys grew up doing what she thought was the best things to do. She learned what she could, exercised when she could, helped when she could, etc...She was easy prey to others misleading her. Fortunately she always kept good notes and the courts rewarded her.

9. Jean Louis Rennard: Haitian, 41 years old, arrived in U.S. as a boat person, in this country illegally, married, 4 children, diabetic, obese, alcoholic.
Jean was exposed to the worst crimes known to man...he left Haiti long ago as a still healty man. Once he arrived on the US soil he met another Haitian, a woman; who suffered a similar fate. Their relation quickly blossomed but both could not forget what they experienced, Jean drank and ate; two things he never could do back at home. His diabeties was inherited, but magnified by his other behaviors. However, during his stay here he invented 3 major advances to construction of boat hulls. 10 years post-humously he'd be rewarded a Nobel Prize.

10. Boo Phelps: African American, 16 years old, high school drip-out, indicted for murder in drive-by shooting of two other teenagers, sings in teen choir at Second Baptist Church, father of three daughters (ages 3 years, 2 years, and 20 months), never married.
Boo was a misprint. Boo never existed, the reporter has been sacked.

11. Dr. Benjamin Kim: Korean American, 49 years old, pharmacist, arrested for Medicaid-Medicare fraud, on dialysis, needs kidney transplant.
Dr. Kim being foreign here and wanting to fit in as well coming from a more honest culture, signed evey paper presented to him by his superiors. He drank a lot at night confused by what he saw vs what he thought was right.

12. Mrs. Louise Kim: Korean American, 35 years old, pharmacy clerk, mother of Brenda (#13), and wife of Dr. (#11).
Not much to say about Louise, while bringing her husband in to the hospital [while her daughter was also hospitalized] she was stuck in the parking lot by another visitor. Most of the people that are regulars in the pharmacy hope she is working that day they need to pick up.

13. Brenda Kim: Korean American, 10 years old, straight-A student, violin prodigy, has leukemia.
Brenda was given a violin by her parents at 3 hoping that she could develop discipline in something that was very rewarding...she quickly mastered the instrument and by 7, she was on the front pages of almost every related magazine...over the next three years she honed her skills until one day at 10 she announced her battle with cancer and had to withdraw from the music world.

14. George Webster: white, 25 years old, schizophrenic.
George sufferd schizophrenizm since 9. Later they would find he was a victim of medicine not understanding his condition fully. 5 years later a student gets his 'file' to review. Soon after research, this student identifies a key error. Within weeks George returns to normal, later marries and has three children....during this same time George becomes a firefigher and in his career saves more lives than any other prior to him. He suffers various scars and some disability, but stays with it until his retirement. Even after against everyone elses advice he still shows up. On his 73rd birthday at the station a call comes in. George like always rides the truck and helps at the scene. This time he hears something no one else does and insists there is something wrong. The younger guys don't listen. Within minutes George breaks through a window and forces through the flames...moments later just the remnants of who George was flies through a window...in his arm once they put out the flames is a baby. They later find the mother a victim of a robbery, and the criminals set the place ablaze to hid their tracks. 5 months later the criminal is found.
This would be something along my answer.

In reality you really don't get a chance to know your patient's life in trauma situations.
 

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