Chiropractors?

[bobsmith1492]

The quacks are the ones who say an adjustment will cure your cold. There's nothing wrong with a good back massage, though.

 

[olds]

I've been to them for neck pain, headaches and back pain. They helped my back pain for an hour or so but no long term benefit. Mostly just lightened my wallet and wasted my time.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492
The quacks are the ones who say an adjustment will cure your cold.

This. Some chiropractors think that they can cure illnesses with their treatment, and those are the ones that need to be avoided.

I've never been to one. Everyone I know who's been to one has really enjoyed the relief it's given them, but that relief seems to be short-lived, and they have to go back regularly for years. I don't want to have to do that, so I'll never go to one.

 

[eits]

Had a friend ask me about chiropractors the other day. He wanted to know what I thought of them. I told him I had no real opinion because I have neve been one. I have heard great things and I have heard bad things.

One friend injured his back moving furniture and went to a chiropractor. Six weeks later he like a new man.

Had another guy who drove a semi delivering and setting up Coke. He woke up one morning and his lower back was hurting him. So he went to a chiropractor and after 7 weeks of not getting better he asked the chiropractor if he should see a regular MD. Chiropractor told him no it would take time for his back to heal. Well four weeks with no real relief he went to an MD. To make a long story short, he was diagnosed with colon cancer. They did chemo/radition (cannot remember) but to no avail he died 2 months later.

Thoughts?

thoughts:
- after 6 weeks of care, if there's absolutely no change, you need to re-eval to see if you misdiagnosed
- history is key... especially family history and medical history of regular endoscopic exams
- waking up due to deep pain in low back on a regular basis = big red flag for cancer... send out for labs
- if the patient lies or omits information, no matter how trivial it may seem, in their new patient paperwork, the doctor can't be held entirely accountable
- it's usually pretty hard to spot colon cancer on an x-ray. chances are that this chiropractor took x-rays and didn't see anything unusual to point to colon cancer or obstruction which would warrant further studies... but it also could be very likely that he didn't see it because he fails at reading x-rays for anything other that spinal alignments. most chiropractors out there are garbage at reading x-rays. i'll be honest, when it comes to bone tumors, i'm not the most reliable. it's hard for me to differentiate between a ubc and an abc sometimes... or an osteoid osteoma from an osteosblastoma. that's why a) chiropractors need to be far better trained at reading x-rays, or b) they should refer out if they're not good at reading them. it takes the liability off of them.
- pain in the low back could be a bunch of things... but, like i said, the chiropractor should have listened more carefully to the patient and picked up on red flags.
- hind-sight is 20/20
- medical doctors miss stuff all the time too

 

[Mike Gayner]

eits - the patients chances of survival would have been immeasurably higher if quack chiropractors didn't exist in the first place to fleece stupid people of all their money.

 

[eits]

I've been to them for neck pain, headaches and back pain. They helped my back pain for an hour or so but no long term benefit. Mostly just lightened my wallet and wasted my time.

did you do any core-strengthening exercises to go along with it? 9/10 times the reason your pain comes back so quickly is because your bones can't be held back in their proper position after the adjustment because your muscles are too weak to hold them in place.

chiropractic adjustments alone are not the answer. it takes the patient to help make themselves get better, too.

my theory of why therapy and training is more necessary nowadays than it used to be 40 or so years ago is because, back then, we were more active in our daily lives and we had stronger cores to help keep our bones in place after adjustments. nowadays, everyone's core is garbage.

it's like trying to sculpt something out of really wet clay versus hard wet clay... if you sculpt something out of mush, it will go right back to a pile of mush. if you sculpt something out of the hard wet clay, it will hold it's shape. that's why i tell my patients that if they don't do their exercises, then all they'd be doing is coming in and throwing money at me for temporary relief and they'll be coming in every week... i tell them that i'd be glad to take their money if they want to throw it at me willingly, but i want them to GET better, not just feel better for a little bit.

i feel more chiropractors need to follow this model... and as morbid as it may sound, it'll take the older generation of chiropractors to die off before this trend can shift into common practice.

 

[eits]

eits - the patients chances of survival would have been immeasurably higher if quack chiropractors didn't exist in the first place to fleece stupid people of all their money.

that's ridiculous. first of all, you're talking about this particular patient with this particular chiropractor, but you're also trying to make a HUGE generalization, considering how medical mistakes are the #3 leading cause of death in america.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

did you do any core-strengthening exercises to go along with it? 9/10 times the reason your pain comes back so quickly is because your bones can't be held back in their proper position after the adjustment because your muscles are too weak to hold them in place.

chiropractic adjustments alone are not the answer. it takes the patient to help make themselves get better, too.

So if the patient is better after treatment then chiropractic works, but if the patient fails to improve then it's the patient's fault and chiropractic still works? That's pretty convenient for you.

 

[eits]

This. Some chiropractors think that they can cure illnesses with their treatment, and those are the ones that need to be avoided.

I've never been to one. Everyone I know who's been to one has really enjoyed the relief it's given them, but that relief seems to be short-lived, and they have to go back regularly for years. I don't want to have to do that, so I'll never go to one.

i definitely don't believe you can cure anything with adjustments or improve someone's heath by removing interference on the nervous system in order to make their body's immune system function higher than normal. i DO, however, believe that you can indirectly improve health by adjusting people by removing stress. there are four main causes of stress, which decrease the body's immune response. musculoskeletal imbalances falls under one of those kinds of stressors. if you remove that stressor, you no longer decrease the immune system's potential.

it's still not fully understood why stresses decrease immune function. there are studies being done at university of michigan, harvard, and ucla right now trying to find out the exact biochemical mechanisms behind it. all that's known is that stress causes a decrease in immunity, which is why you're much more likely to get sick if you're stressed out or out in cold weather or have a nagging pain or work out too much... the germs that are already in your body, being fought off by your immune system, take over because your immune system's response ends up becoming diminished.

 

[eits]

So if the patient is better after treatment then chiropractic works, but if the patient fails to improve then it's the patient's fault and chiropractic still works? That's pretty convenient for you.

absolutely.

it's like the person who sees a doctor for drinking tea with the spoon still in the cup. a chiropractor can try to take out the spoon, but it's up to you to keep it out.

some people have better cores naturally than others. some people actually do core exercises, like pilates. those people will respond much better to chiropractic care. the ones who typically don't are the couch potatoes, people who sit around all day at a desk, or people who INSIST on wearing their wallet in their back pocket... or the people who consistently sleep on their stomachs...

there are lots of actions that people do to contribute to their problems... some people need to alter those actions in order to notice results. some don't.

there are a ton of drugs out there for a.d.d... if i go and take adderall and it doesn't work for me, does that mean that it psychiatry doesn't work at all? what if i took the proper doses, but didn't take them when they were prescribed by the doctor? would you, then, be snarky and say "how convenient for you, mr. psychiatrist"?

how about orthopedic surgeons who perform carpal tunnel syndrome, and it ends up failing on you and 65% of his other patients, but it didn't fail on 35% of his other patients? then what?

everyone's different. fortunately for chiropractors, a lot of the patient's own care relies on the patient doing what is prescribed as far as what exercises to do and what daily habits to try and not do.

 

[eits]

I never really had an opinion either way but after seeing some of the crazy shit that eits has posted I'm gonna have to go with quack.

orly? what kind of crazy shit would that have been?

 

[eits]

Nah, Colon Cancer is always a differential with chronic lower back pain. It is one of those cancers you don't catch until it is too late. Not many early symptoms and it doesn't hit the fan until too late.

It is one of the big reasons you should get a prostate exam regularly because you also do a quick scan for colon cancer with a hemo card. Micro amounts of blood in the stool might be the only sign you get.

this

 

[Ruptga]

My Dad's been a chiropractor since a year or two after I was born, and I think they have their place like any other sort of specialist. Despite what a few will claim a chiropractor isn't a replacement for a regular MD, but if you're having back or some kinds of limb problems (sciatica, for example) they're great.

 

[eits]

The difference between PTs and chiropractic is that we actually have research evidence to help us determine when joint manipulation is appropriate and when it isn't.

you can thank us for the idea and thank the medical doctors for the funding lol

 

[Mike Gayner]

My Dad's been a chiropractor since a year or two after I was born, and I think they have their place like any other sort of specialist. Despite what a few will claim a chiropractor isn't a replacement for a regular MD, but if you're having back or some kinds of limb problems (sciatica, for example) they're great.

TBH your dad is a moron and has indoctrinated you with his bullshit. Chiros are NOT medical specialists.

 

[Ruptga]

They're the real thing, but unfortunately, many of them also subscribe to crazy stuff, ala homeopathy.

Or fear of vaccines... I've got a flier from my chiropractor that I've been tempted to post here, but I'm too lazy. But anyway he's a good chiropractor so I'll forgive his stupidity on that subject.

 

[Ruptga]

TBH your dad is a moron and has indoctrinated you with his bullshit. Chiros are NOT medical specialists.

k.

 

[Capt Caveman]

When I was in college and injured my back, the orthopedic specialist I went to, did nothing for me. I decided to go see a chiropractor. He treated my injury, showed me stretches and strengthening exercises that helped me get back to normal.

You'll find good and bad chiropractors and doctors. It's pretty stupid to generalize one way or the other.

 

[eits]

Or fear of vaccines... I've got a flier from my chiropractor that I've been tempted to post here, but I'm too lazy. But anyway he's a good chiropractor so I'll forgive his stupidity on that subject.

some vaccines are worthy of being cautious about. not all of them. the cdc knows it, too, which is why they've removed the ethyl mercury from all childhood vaccinations.

be aware that there are lots of medications out on the market that aren't actually safe to use, exactly. they get put on the market even though the fda still wants to do tests on them. there are drugs out there that only got on the market because the research was bullshit, paid for by pharmaceutical companies. not only that, just look at all the ghostwriting out there for crying out loud...

anyways, i digress. i'm not anti-medication or anti-vaccination. i'm pro-knowledge. do i use medications? yes. would i vaccinate my child? yes. do i get the flu shot? no. would i get the swine flu shot? no. would i ever tell a patient not to get a shot or take meds? absolutely not.

 

[Mike Gayner]

some vaccines are worthy of being cautious about. not all of them. the cdc knows it, too, which is why they've removed the ethyl mercury from all childhood vaccinations.

/facepalm

I knew you were a quack.

 

[eits]

/facepalm

I knew you were a quack.

/facepalm

... sigh... you poor, poor moron.

http://health.state.ga.us/pdfs/prev...37;20Controversy - CDC Responds (Website).pdf

i'm done with you.

 

[Ruptga]

and the poo flinging begins...

 

[TheVrolok]

you can thank us for the idea and thank the medical doctors for the funding lol

And you can thank Still, well, depending on who's telling the story.

 

[eits]

And you can thank Still, well, depending on who's telling the story.

still and palmer both had similar methods, but different philosophies. still thought that setting bones in proper alignment allowed for good blood to flow, thereby ridding the body of illness. palmer thought that setting bones in proper allignment allowed for good nerve flow, thereby restoring proper function to ailing tissues and body parts. i think palmer was more right than still, but not 100% on the money. i don't believe adjusting t5-t8 will get rid of a gastric ulcer or gastric cancer.

 

[TheVrolok]

still and palmer both had similar methods, but different philosophies. still thought that setting bones in proper alignment allowed for good blood to flow, thereby ridding the body of illness. palmer thought that setting bones in proper allignment allowed for good nerve flow, thereby restoring proper function to ailing tissues and body parts. i think palmer was more right than still, but not 100% on the money. i don't believe adjusting t5-t8 will get rid of a gastric ulcer or gastric cancer.

I'm well aware of the history, I'm just ballbusting. I'm referring to the rumors that Palmer visited Still a handful of times while Still was in Kirksville. I don't particularly buy either method. Tell you what, though, I'm about due for another adjustment.. T8-T9 are killing me.