Chiropractic - the good, the bad and the ugly

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SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
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Originally posted by: RichardE
I think the placebo affect is what you see in homeopathy. People want to believe that magic water cures X, so it can happen.

JAMA. 1994 May 25;271(20):1609-14. Is an interesting study on it if you have access to a catalogue. There is another one that directly measures the brain in regards to placebo and pain meds, showing the brain creating its own pain suppression chemicals when it thought it was receiving pain medications. Also the reason why you give some people Tylenol and there headches are gone a few minutes later even though its impossible the drug hit there brain yet.

Self-hypnosis is some awesome stuff. :)

There are some great natural remedies - some of our current medicines are synthetics of real stuff, i.e. Aspirin. But what happened is you get your snake oil salesmen seeing a huge commercial opportunity and pushing whatever the next fad is. Homeopathy has its goods and its evils, and ignorant people will fall for scams. The only thing that comes close is the pharmaceutical companies pushing products by giving doctors incentives to prescribe the latest drug.

I have chronic neck pain and fatigue problems, and I've done it all - doctors, chiropractors, and homeopathy. You know what worked? A massage therapist. A masseuse has helped me the most and is slowly reversing the problem. Nobody better tell me that a deep tissue massage is quack science. ;)
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Faith healing Voodoo . It been said to work . Dam why is my faith so week.

Perhaps because you add an extra space before your periods and you're holding back water from hitting your faith of 7 days. :confused:
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: AreaCode707
I went to a chiro for neck pain. They told me to come off all my arthritis meds or I would die of liver failure, and that I had forward head posture syndrome, curable by daily applications of weights to my head and neck to strengthen the muscles and improve my posture.

The meds part alone was all I needed to hear.

Its a good thing you walked away. I'm a strong advocate of good chiropractic therapy, but if you go to a bad chiropractor, they could screw you up permanently. :( But keep in mind, if a bad doctor prescribes for you the wrong mix of meds, same effect.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: RichardE
I think the placebo affect is what you see in homeopathy. People want to believe that magic water cures X, so it can happen.

JAMA. 1994 May 25;271(20):1609-14. Is an interesting study on it if you have access to a catalogue. There is another one that directly measures the brain in regards to placebo and pain meds, showing the brain creating its own pain suppression chemicals when it thought it was receiving pain medications. Also the reason why you give some people Tylenol and there headches are gone a few minutes later even though its impossible the drug hit there brain yet.

Self-hypnosis is some awesome stuff. :)

There are some great natural remedies - some of our current medicines are synthetics of real stuff, i.e. Aspirin. But what happened is you get your snake oil salesmen seeing a huge commercial opportunity and pushing whatever the next fad is. Homeopathy has its goods and its evils, and ignorant people will fall for scams. The only thing that comes close is the pharmaceutical companies pushing products by giving doctors incentives to prescribe the latest drug.

I have chronic neck pain and fatigue problems, and I've done it all - doctors, chiropractors, and homeopathy. You know what worked? A massage therapist. A masseuse has helped me the most and is slowly reversing the problem. Nobody better tell me that a deep tissue massage is quack science. ;)

I actually saw a study of deep tissue massage a few months ago regarding it showing a significant decrease in muscle pain. I'll see if I can find it, I doubt people think deep massage therapy is a quack science though :p


 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: AreaCode707
I went to a chiro for neck pain. They told me to come off all my arthritis meds or I would die of liver failure, and that I had forward head posture syndrome, curable by daily applications of weights to my head and neck to strengthen the muscles and improve my posture.

The meds part alone was all I needed to hear. There's this whole thing about not being able to walk or use my hands that I kinda dislike. I told them to get lost and went to a real doctor.

I had a severely damaged C1/C2 (upper neck). If I'd used the weights prescribed to me, they could have damaged my spinal cord and caused very serious issues. I wound up getting a spinal fusion to fix the problem.

Holistic medicine isn't any good if it conflicts with regular medicine.

ugh... i didn't wanna get dragged in, so this is the only one i'm gonna reply to...

there are so many things wrong with this post...

1. do you actually have arthritis? if so, what kind? are they just pain pills or anti-inflammatories or what? the kind of arthritis matters. regardless, he had no business telling you that your meds would cause liver failure and you'd die... either that or you just misunderstood what he said. a lot of times, patients kinda take things the complete wrong way... for example: "we're just going to run some tests on the biopsy to make sure it's not cancerous" = "OMG YOU HAVE CANCER!"

2. forward head posture syndrome? that's just ridiculous. he made that up.

3. adding weights to your head for an anterior head carriage = headaches, sprain/strain of the neck, and just overall wrongness

4. if you have rheumatoid arthritis, you have weak ligaments between c1 and c2, so any high-velocity low amplitude adjusting at that area is contraindicated. in fact, adding weights to your head IF you had rheumatoid arthritis and he never checked for atlanto-axial instability with a routine 3-view cervical series on x-ray would be HIGHLY negligent. it could have potentially ended up killing you.

5. the guy you saw was definitely a quack and it pisses me off that you had to suffer through that. this is just another example of why people need to research chiropractors before they go to them. some, like this one, are quacks. however, most are good.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
People actually buy into that back-cracking BS?

Worked for me, no idea what the guy did but I have yet to have headaches in months after it being a daily occurrence. The specialist I had seen wanted to do surgery so I went to a chiropractor and boom, good as new :p
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Faith healing Voodoo . It been said to work . Dam why is my faith so week.

Perhaps because you add an extra space before your periods and you're holding back water from hitting your faith of 7 days. :confused:


Ok . I understand the . space . Maybe you should speak more of it and we get . Ya understand?

I have zero 7 day faith . Anyone who implies that everthing was done in six days. Was a lier. Its just a tool used by the week of heart against the strong. Bible doesn't even say it if you read the Bible. As a Whole.

. Lets get back to topic.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
68
91
Originally posted by: Alone
All I know is that one day I went in feeling like shit, then came out feeling wonderful.

Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. Nor will your incessant trolling.

I fucked up my back playing basketball. I couldn't sleep type of pain. And it all went away in about 1 hour.

OP is the crackpot. Vampires are not real, but I can prove vampirism. OP is dumb/


The bottom line is that I could barely walk and barely sleep. The follwoing describes the procedure that fixed my back:
Spinal manipulation, which chiropractors call "spinal adjustment" or "chiropractic adjustment", is the most common treatment used in chiropractic care; in the U.S., chiropractors perform over 90% of all manipulative treatments. Spinal manipulation is a passive manual maneuver during which a three-joint complex is taken past the normal range of movement, but not so far as to dislocate or damage the joint; its defining factor is a dynamic thrust, which is a sudden force that causes an audible release and attempts to increase a joint's range of motion. More generally, spinal manipulative therapy (SMT) describes techniques where the hands are used to manipulate, massage, mobilize, adjust, stimulate, apply traction to, or otherwise influence the spine and related tissues; in chiropractic care SMT most commonly takes the form of spinal manipulation.
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic

I don't care what anyone thinks, but if this is what is done 90% of the time, then 90% of the time it is no fucking joke.

Need more analogies!
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: eits
5. the guy you saw was definitely a quack and it pisses me off that you had to suffer through that. this is just another example of why people need to research chiropractors before they go to them. some, like this one, are quacks. however, most are good.

I agree, the dude sounds like a quack. I've had a couple chiropractors and 2 of the 4 have been quacks looking to push vitamins or just wanted to address the "atlas" bone. My latest one is good and the very first one I had was good. All took xrays and have shown me what was "wrong" (neck is too straight and a kink in my spine between my shoulder blades). The first one got me back into shape and I didn't have a problem until I hurt myself lifting something I shouldn't have. I waited too long because I had moved and it took me a while to go in due to the pain. I went through 2 quickly due to quacksville and have been going to the latest for about a year. I've had periodic xrays (0, 6 and 12 months) and can see a bit of curvature coming back to my next. I also don't have the nasty headaches and back pain like I did before(unless I over exert myself). My chiropractor has me do tons of stretching and other exercises to keep things happy.

I guess I believe in a quack....
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,865
18,078
126
As far as I can tell, chiropractic is the western version of Chinese bone setting, except more gentle.

From personal experience I know bone setting works wonders. Never been to a chiropractor so don't know.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Hatred is not the right word. I use strong language to try to warn people against pseudoscience and towards evidence-based medicine. I don't hate chiropractors, but I am dismayed by the public's lack of knowledge and almost total acceptance of something for which there is no evidence.
You claim that there is no evidence, but in your OP you admitted that there was some evidence. I'll also point out that there exists a significant literature on the efficacy of accupuncture. I've never been to a chiropractor or accupuncturist, but I do know a world-renowned heart surgeon who visits both as he deems necessary. He told me that chiropractors are great at fixing back problems - you just have to ignore all of the other crap that they might try to push on you. He also tries "herbal" medicines when traditional pharmacy fails and one of his daughters is a pharmacist.

I've noticed that you think you know everything, have read all of the literature, and have all of the answers on every subject. Anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a zealot, quack, idiot, or some other arbitrary label. Bottom line: there are at least a few people that know a lot more about certain subjects than yourself. You try to preemptively downplay their knowledge or input by throwing out your labels and trying to paint them as ignorant before they've even said anything. Ironically, I've most commonly found this same behavior among evangelical Christians who can't defend anything they believe, so they disparage anyone who tries to make a counter-claim, throw out false information, or some other similar tactic. For example, the current book I'm reading ("Human Accomplishment" by Charles Murray) indicates that Andrew Still is the father of osteopathy, which is the real foundation of chiropracty. He was an MD like his father and "founded" osteopathy in 1874. Its founding is considered one of the ~100 most important events in the history of medicine according to the pretty rigorous methods applied by Murray.

Like I said, I've never been to a chiropractor and probably won't ever go to one, but pretending to "inform" people by giving them information that is biased and based in ignorance is hardly helping anyone.
 

AreaCode7O7

Senior member
Mar 6, 2005
931
1
0
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: AreaCode707
I went to a chiro for neck pain. They told me to come off all my arthritis meds or I would die of liver failure, and that I had forward head posture syndrome, curable by daily applications of weights to my head and neck to strengthen the muscles and improve my posture.

The meds part alone was all I needed to hear. There's this whole thing about not being able to walk or use my hands that I kinda dislike. I told them to get lost and went to a real doctor.

I had a severely damaged C1/C2 (upper neck). If I'd used the weights prescribed to me, they could have damaged my spinal cord and caused very serious issues. I wound up getting a spinal fusion to fix the problem.

Holistic medicine isn't any good if it conflicts with regular medicine.

ugh... i didn't wanna get dragged in, so this is the only one i'm gonna reply to...

there are so many things wrong with this post...

1. do you actually have arthritis? if so, what kind? are they just pain pills or anti-inflammatories or what? the kind of arthritis matters. regardless, he had no business telling you that your meds would cause liver failure and you'd die... either that or you just misunderstood what he said. a lot of times, patients kinda take things the complete wrong way... for example: "we're just going to run some tests on the biopsy to make sure it's not cancerous" = "OMG YOU HAVE CANCER!"

Rheumatoid arthritis. I'm on Enbrel currently, was on methotrexate and plaquenil at the time. Yes, MTX is hell on the liver. He did straight up tell me I'd die of liver failure. He had a daughter with cancer (might have been leukemia, not sure) who was on mtx, and "the meds were worse than the disease". I definitely didn't misunderstand what he said; he spent ten or fifteen minutes emphasizing that I should go off the meds right away despite my responses describing the impact of RA without meds.

2. forward head posture syndrome? that's just ridiculous. he made that up.

No idea about that. For all I know it's common chiro, but it could be just as well made up by him individually.

3. adding weights to your head for an anterior head carriage = headaches, sprain/strain of the neck, and just overall wrongness

Sounds pretty right.

4. if you have rheumatoid arthritis, you have weak ligaments between c1 and c2, so any high-velocity low amplitude adjusting at that area is contraindicated. in fact, adding weights to your head IF you had rheumatoid arthritis and he never checked for atlanto-axial instability with a routine 3-view cervical series on x-ray would be HIGHLY negligent. it could have potentially ended up killing you.

EXACTLY. My big problem with chiros now is that the regulations and training are significantly unequal between practitioners. If it's a medical science it should be held to the same standards. Anyone practicing without the same basic medical training of any other doctor should be prosecuted. [edit] He did do an x-ray, just for the record.

5. the guy you saw was definitely a quack and it pisses me off that you had to suffer through that. this is just another example of why people need to research chiropractors before they go to them. some, like this one, are quacks. however, most are good.

Regulation of the medical practice came about for good reason. I think chiros should be subject to the same regulations, be a trained doctor the same as any other. Especially when some people are now choosing them as the primary resource for treating certain pains and illnesses.
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,559
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Hatred is not the right word. I use strong language to try to warn people against pseudoscience and towards evidence-based medicine. I don't hate chiropractors, but I am dismayed by the public's lack of knowledge and almost total acceptance of something for which there is no evidence.
You claim that there is no evidence, but in your OP you admitted that there was some evidence. I'll also point out that there exists a significant literature on the efficacy of accupuncture. I've never been to a chiropractor or accupuncturist, but I do know a world-renowned heart surgeon who visits both as he deems necessary. He told me that chiropractors are great at fixing back problems - you just have to ignore all of the other crap that they might try to push on you. He also tries "herbal" medicines when traditional pharmacy fails and one of his daughters is a pharmacist.

I've noticed that you think you know everything, have read all of the literature, and have all of the answers on every subject. Anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a zealot, quack, idiot, or some other arbitrary label. Bottom line: there are at least a few people that know a lot more about certain subjects than yourself. You try to preemptively downplay their knowledge or input by throwing out your labels and trying to paint them as ignorant before they've even said anything. Ironically, I've most commonly found this same behavior among evangelical Christians who can't defend anything they believe, so they disparage anyone who tries to make a counter-claim, throw out false information, or some other similar tactic. For example, the current book I'm reading ("Human Accomplishment" by Charles Murray) indicates that Andrew Still is the father of osteopathy, which is the real foundation of chiropracty. He was an MD like his father and "founded" osteopathy in 1874. Its founding is considered one of the ~100 most important events in the history of medicine according to the pretty rigorous methods applied by Murray.

Like I said, I've never been to a chiropractor and probably won't ever go to one, but pretending to "inform" people by giving them information that is biased and based in ignorance is hardly helping anyone.

You're right. Facts have a profound bias toward reality. What, specifically, do you take issue with in the OP? Or is this just a general whinge?

As for osteopathy, let's start with this: "[I can] shake a child and stop scarlet fever, croup, diphtheria, and cure whooping cough in three days by a wring of its neck". Guess who said that? Andrew Taylor St- waaaait a minute... that's the guy you're reading about!

I should also note that Osteopaths (D.O.) generally have the same training as medical doctors, in addition to OMT.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
You're right. Facts have a profound bias toward reality. What, specifically, do you take issue with in the OP? Or is this just a general whinge?
What "facts" have you or the OP presented? None. There are abundant references in the literature, many of them recent, discussing the efficacy of accupuncture in particular. Anyone who knows how to do a simple literature search can easily identify them and read the free abstracts online. As someone who does medical research, I take issue with the propagation of ignorance, the derision cast upon those who might be as or more knowledgeable simply for disagreeing, and the spread of misinformation.
As for osteopathy, let's start with this: "[I can] shake a child and stop scarlet fever, croup, diphtheria, and cure whooping cough in three days by a wring of its neck". Guess who said that? Andrew Taylor St- waaaait a minute... that's the guy you're reading about!
Obviously you're unaware of the state of medicine back in 1874. The other major events listed in my book surrounding the founding of osteopathy are:
1865: Claude Bernard's Introduction a l'Etude de la Medicine Experimental is instrumental in establishing medicine as a cience with observation, hypothesis, and experimentation.

1874: Andrew Still discovers that dislocations of the vertebrae are a source of disease, founding osteopathy.

1876: Robert Koch demonstrates that bacilli are the cause of anthrax, the first linkage of a disease with a specific microorganism.
It's a joke to say that Still was behind the times or some quack because he thought he could treat people by fixing perceived problems with their spinal columns in an era where scientific medicine was in its infancy. Indeed, it appears that he was rather forward thinking for his time, even if he was woefully wrong in the scope of efficacy of his proposed treatments. That one line is the only mention of him in this book, yet by its inclusion, it means the founding of osteopathy was one of about 100 events in the history of medicine that warranted inclusion in every reference used by Murray in preparing his list. Thus, while you might not feel that it's important, people who spend their lives studying this sort of thing obviously do.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,976
141
106
..I recall reading there is a high incidence of stroke and heartattack associated with "back cracker" procedures.
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,914
0
0
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Hatred is not the right word. I use strong language to try to warn people against pseudoscience and towards evidence-based medicine. I don't hate chiropractors, but I am dismayed by the public's lack of knowledge and almost total acceptance of something for which there is no evidence.
You claim that there is no evidence, but in your OP you admitted that there was some evidence. I'll also point out that there exists a significant literature on the efficacy of accupuncture. I've never been to a chiropractor or accupuncturist, but I do know a world-renowned heart surgeon who visits both as he deems necessary. He told me that chiropractors are great at fixing back problems - you just have to ignore all of the other crap that they might try to push on you. He also tries "herbal" medicines when traditional pharmacy fails and one of his daughters is a pharmacist.

I've noticed that you think you know everything, have read all of the literature, and have all of the answers on every subject. Anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a zealot, quack, idiot, or some other arbitrary label. Bottom line: there are at least a few people that know a lot more about certain subjects than yourself. You try to preemptively downplay their knowledge or input by throwing out your labels and trying to paint them as ignorant before they've even said anything. Ironically, I've most commonly found this same behavior among evangelical Christians who can't defend anything they believe, so they disparage anyone who tries to make a counter-claim, throw out false information, or some other similar tactic. For example, the current book I'm reading ("Human Accomplishment" by Charles Murray) indicates that Andrew Still is the father of osteopathy, which is the real foundation of chiropracty. He was an MD like his father and "founded" osteopathy in 1874. Its founding is considered one of the ~100 most important events in the history of medicine according to the pretty rigorous methods applied by Murray.

Like I said, I've never been to a chiropractor and probably won't ever go to one, but pretending to "inform" people by giving them information that is biased and based in ignorance is hardly helping anyone.

You're right. Facts have a profound bias toward reality. What, specifically, do you take issue with in the OP? Or is this just a general whinge?

As for osteopathy, let's start with this: "[I can] shake a child and stop scarlet fever, croup, diphtheria, and cure whooping cough in three days by a wring of its neck". Guess who said that? Andrew Taylor St- waaaait a minute... that's the guy you're reading about!

I should also note that Osteopaths (D.O.) generally have the same training as medical doctors, in addition to OMT.

To be a DO you need all the training of an MD PLUS tons of extra hours of hands on training and you need to be board certified in the skeletal system (I think, at least, for that last part)
 

TreyRandom

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
3,346
0
76
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: BoomerD
your blind hatred of ALL chiropractors makes about as much sense as hating all dentists based on their treatments from the 1800's...come to think about it...dentistry hasn't changed all that much since then either! :D

Hatred is not the right word. I use strong language to try to warn people against pseudoscience and towards evidence-based medicine. I don't hate chiropractors, but I am dismayed by the public's lack of knowledge and almost total acceptance of something for which there is no evidence.

Then if there's "no evidence", I guess my IBS went away all on its own.

I once thought chiropractic services were a bunch of crap. When I was young, my mom came out of the chiropractor's office complaining just as loudly as when she went in. Plus, I was a degreed chemist - reproducible lab results were a necessity in my world.

But when my neck started to get stiff and hurt (with only temporary relief coming when I'd "pop" my neck), who was I gonna see? A medical doc?

Reluctantly, I went in to a chiropractor my sister recommended. I told him I had neck problems, so he checked my spine. When he got to my lower back, he asked me if I had had any intestinal problems, and I said that I had been diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome for the last few years (which basically means, "We've checked your pipes, and we don't know why you're in pain, dude"). He adjusted me - didn't say he had fixed anything related to my IBS - and not only did the neck pain go away, the IBS went away as if he had flipped a light switch. The next time I visited the chiropractor, he confirmed that he had adjusted an area of my lower back that handles nerve impulses to my intestines.

I continued to get adjustments when either my neck or my intestines would flare up, and the treatments became less and less frequent as my back and neck muscles "learned" where my spine was supposed to be. Nowadays, I hardly need to go at all - I think I've gone once in the last year, year-and-a-half. And I feel great.

Dude, there's no way it was coincidence that it went away like that on its own the very day I got adjusted. It wasn't merely the power of "positive suggestion", because I didn't know he had "fixed" my IBS.

Sure, there are bad chiropractors out there... but there are bad people in every profession. Those who want to give it a shot should do their research and find a good one before proceeding.

Meh. I don't need someone else's evidence to know the difference it's made in my life. That's all the proof I need. But it's unfortunate that you feel the need to "warn" people about something that might truly make a positive difference in someone's life. No longer do I have to worry about trying to force gritty fiber drinks into my body that really didn't do much good, or doubling over in pain in the movie theater because my intestines won't digest popcorn properly, or having to hurriedly excuse myself because I feel an urgent rush coming. If I had listened to your advice back then, I'd have had to have suffered that exact fate for the past ten years like I did for the prior three years. No thanks.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,605
6,093
136
OP, if you want to find someone to rag on go after homeopathic "medicine"
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Despite GodlessAstronomer's sometimes abrasive nature, I'm with GA on this one. Not having seen the so called "attack" thread, he has a valid point in the op, which can be summarized as such:

1. The "theory" behind chiropractic medicine is total BS, with a steaming S.
2. The "practice" of most chiropractors is a mix of unlicensed physical therapy (a good thing) and pseudo-scientific medicine (pretend, just like a toddler would practice).
3. For muscular / back ailments, chiropractors can produce results for the same reasons that physical therapists can, but by going to what is effectively unlicensed PT, you are putting yourself at increased risk of debilitating injury. This is what GA is concerned about people doing without realizing it.
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
I can't believe there are people defending chiropractors. I do agree that it's bad to categorize ALL of them as being quacks but cmon now. I think a vast majority of them are. It's particularly suspect when they all try to get you hooked, saying you have to come back every few weeks (forever) or the trouble will start right up again ...
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
Many mixers supplement their subluxation therapies with homeopathy, acupuncture and other well known fraud-based medicine modalities.
well i go to a chiropractor for my back muscle tingling. my chiropractor employs acupuncture in many of his remedies, and it works very well. he cites a lot of scientific research that has done on it that actually proves it. it's interesting how the chinese figured it out through a method other than the scientific approach.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
126
i've been going to diff chiros for 10yrs for upper back pain. (yeah insurance)

none has helped. :(

cracking the upper back feels great. i cant do that myself.

but the pain is still there, even immediately after it's cracked :(

what i hate is the electro-stims. just a waste of my time, and a way for chiros to pad the insurance bill.

i've taken xrays and mri's with diff back specials, and orthos. they said everything looks normal.
i've had no trauma. i just woke up w/slight pain and it's been there ever since. :(

anyone know why my upper back hurts (t4/t5 area)?
and how to relieve/cure?
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: ja1484
I could say a lot of things from a weighty standpoint. Being in physical therapy, I've got plenty of educated, informed perspective on chiropractic.

That being said, you folks aren't worth the trouble. So there.

and really unbiased too. you don't have any financial stake at all in saying that chiros are quacks do you.
 
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