Chiropractic Questions

[eits]

Originally posted by: digiram
Myth: Cracking your back, neck, knuckles, etc. can cause problems in the future.

True or False?

back, neck = true

knuckles = false

basically, if you have a disc in the area, cracking your own could cause more problems in the future.

knuckles have no disc... it's just synovial fluid joint capsules. cracking your knuckles will actually improve dexterity and motion. you've got a better chance of getting osteoarthritis in your hands if you never crack your knuckles, but not by much.

cracking them too much, however, could potentially cause a problem by causing too much joint laxity. too much = more than what a reasonable person would consider a normal amount of knuckle cracking, basically.

 

[LS20]

so how would i stop cracking my back and neck? when i crack my neck, which is a few times a day, you can hear it from across a football stadium (and it feels soooooooo good)

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Ive heard that a good chiropractor can help with frequent migraines. What sort of info do you have about this claim? What is it that they can fix?

there was a cadaver study done at johns hopkins where they ended up finding a connective tissue bridge between a couple muscles in the top of the neck and the dura. the dura = the connective tissue that covers your brain. so, the studies showed that when the muscle gets tight or if the vertebra the muscle inserts into is misalligned, it pulls on that fibrous connective tissue bridge and causes tension on the dura, which causes enough of a pressure differential in the skull which causes the migraine.

also, most "migraines" aren't migraines at all... they're cervicogenic headaches, which means that it's caused by problems in the neck, whether it's bad biomechanics, degeneration, muscles pulling and causing tension, etc.

this I agree with. my wife used to suffer nasty migraines nothing worked, as in shots, pills from our doc. The neck is my favorite part of the body to massage and not to brag im damn good at it. the only thing that gets rid of my wifes headaches is a 20 min neck routine that i put together.

I would love to have a chiro teach me how to adjust a neck and use it on her, i would never use it in my practice because it is outside my scope of official training.

 

[torpid]

I have recurring lower back problems. It happens in two stages... first lower muscular back pain, then sciatic pain in varying strengths caused by misaligned pelvis.

I have been to physical therapy many times, and they keep trying to get me to strengthen the muscles on the other side of my rib cage, by "holding pee in" and "sucking in the stomach" while doing leg movements. That is supposedly to prevent the initial events, but it doesn't work. They also have me do pelvic alignment exercises to push my right hip forward and left hip back. That helps moderately...

But I find it absurd that I should have to do those exercise twice a day for the rest of my life. Are there alternative, temporarytreatments by a chiropractor that would have lasting effects? Or is it a recurring appointment thing in situations like this? I do not want to go twice a week to realign my pelvis for the rest of my life either.

Also, I am somewhat confident that part of the problem is with sleeping. If I sleep in a bed, it is almost guaranteed to exacerbate the problem. If I sleep on my couch, where my back is somewhat supported when I sleep on my side, it is better. Would a "memory foam" mattress thus be advised? What are the spinal implications of such mattresses? Good or bad? What about the "comfort select" number system beds? It seems to relate to my body twisting when I sleep on my side. I sleep on my back with knees elevated when I can, but it gets uncomfortable after a while.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: yowolabi
I went with my girlfriend to a chiropractor, and quite frankly thought that he was full of shit.

He kept quoting some numbers that are supposed to be the optimum angles for the spine. He also told numerous stories/showed x-rays of people who had various sicknesses, and after adjusting their spine to this magical angle they all got better.

Was he representative of the typical chiropractor? If so, where do they get their information?

yeah, it's pretty representative of a typical chiropractor. why did you think it was bullshit?

to my knowledge, there haven't been many studies done on what angle would cause what disease or anything like that. unfortunately, most of the research done is mainly medical research because of the overwhelmingly strong medical lobby vs the chiropractic lobby. also, the fda is in the pocket of big pharma, which means that medical studies are more likely to be funded if there's a chance that a new drug can come out for it. since chiropractic doesn't require medication or drugs, they don't get much funding.

the view that distortions in the spine can cause different diseases comes from a few things: first, physiology... if the nerve is either irritated or impinged, it will not act normally. that's just physiology. however, some studies show that an irritated or inflamed nerve will cause the nerve to have a decreased threshhold (which means that it will fire more), whereas an impinged nerve will cause an increased threshhold (which means that it will fire less). if the nerves going to your bodily organs are either firing more or less, you could manifest a certain disease (for example, irritable bowel syndrome, muscle spasms, high blood pressure or rapid heart rate, chronic hiccups, etc).

these could happen whether or not the spine is distorted. on an x-ray, you can see a perfect spine... that doesn't mean that all the motion segments are moving properly. if you have a fixated segment, it causes irritation at the nerve root, which causes "stuff". typically, a degenerated spine or disc will cause an impinged nerve... another thing that can cause an impinged nerve is a tight muscle somewhere along the path of the nerve. there are various technique a chiropractor can use to ease up that muscle and free that muscle... same with massage therapists (big ups to citrix ).

not sure if i really answered your question well enough... let me know if the answer i gave is what you were looking for.

 

[Miramonti]

Official ATOT Chiropractic Expert (Still in training, however)

Thanks for the chiropractic support, but isn't this a contradiction? ("expert" vs. "in training" )

Perhaps you can answer this tho. If I get my xrays from my chiropracter, how can I get them scanned to a computer image file?

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: LS20
so how would i stop cracking my back and neck? when i crack my neck, which is a few times a day, you can hear it from across a football stadium (and it feels soooooooo good)

My chiropractor cringed when I mentioned cracking my neck..he 'fixed' it and said to leave it alone for a few days. I still crack it a little, every so often..but nowhere near as violently as it was before..

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: chrisg22
Will it really help with my back pain? I sit at a desk 8 hours a day (not always, just when we're not busy) and drive 3+ hours a day and it's killing my back. I almost can't stand to sit at my desk anymore it hurts so bad.

I don't want to go if it's goin to become a regular thing where I have to go all the time. I just want to go in for a fix and then be good for a year maybe. I think my insurance covers like 10 visits a year or somethin like that.

edit: I guess my question is pretty similar to buck and dquan97's questions.

absolutely. sitting for a long time is probably the worst thing you can do for your spine. the most axial load put on your spine is when you're sitting. there are some things you can do to help you not see the chiropractor as often.

first, you need to do some stretches for your iliopsoas muscle. you can google that and do them by yourself. another thing would be to buy an ergonomic chair with lumbar support. it takes some of the load off your back and directs it into the chair. it might be expensive, but you won't have to go see the chiropractor as often.

chances are that you'll probably be a patient who needs to be seen once or twice a month after about two or three weeks of being treated once a week. you'll feel tons better... ESPECIALLY if you do those stretches. if you don't do the stretches, a good chiropractor will tell you to do them and might even stretch it for you or even massage it out for you and bill you for it. you obviously don't want to be billed for something you can do for yourself, so just make sure you do your stretches.

 

[jandrews]

You appear to be someone who works in the field so frankly why would you be a source of information that should be trusted when your welfare is made in the industry? Anyway, I have never been to a chiropractor but my father had been in an accident and had gone to them for a few years. They gave him fleeting relief that usually lasted a few hours after a visit. Chiropractors are great for temporary relief just like massages but they are worthless for ongoing relief or treatment.

 

[OutHouse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...an_Medical_Association

nice link Eits: My family MD has referred many of her patients to me and she tells my wife when my wifes takes the kids in for shots, physicals or sore throat that she hears nothing but good things about me. On the other hand i sublease my room from a group of surgeons and have been subleasing from them for the past 3.5 years and they have never referred any of their patients.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: jandrews
You appear to be someone who works in the field so frankly why would you be a source of information that should be trusted when your welfare is made in the industry? Anyway, I have never been to a chiropractor but my father had been in an accident and had gone to them for a few years. They gave him fleeting relief that usually lasted a few hours after a visit. Chiropractors are great for temporary relief just like massages but they are worthless for ongoing relief or treatment.

my clients would totally disagree with you, it works for them and have a better quality of life because of Chiro and Massage Therapy.

 

[jandrews]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: jandrews
You appear to be someone who works in the field so frankly why would you be a source of information that should be trusted when your welfare is made in the industry? Anyway, I have never been to a chiropractor but my father had been in an accident and had gone to them for a few years. They gave him fleeting relief that usually lasted a few hours after a visit. Chiropractors are great for temporary relief just like massages but they are worthless for ongoing relief or treatment.

my clients would totally disagree with you, it works for them and have a better quality of life because of Chiro and Massage Therapy.

Doctor client relationships arent the best for testimonials. Patients often feel pressure to make their doctor feel like they are helping, I dont think that is an accurate sample.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: LS20

Originally posted by: buck
My back has started hurting and I went to a chiropractor to get it looked at. I basically got the song and dance that I needed to come in 15-30 min 2x a week for "a long time" as he put it.

I came in for a habitual cracking of my neck and spine

I got the 2x a week song and dance

-Basically, I come in, and they hook me up to an overpriced Sharper Image massaging machine for 20 minutes. (doesnt feel that great btw)
-Then "doc" comes in and tells me to do a dumb exercise each week (roll your neck back 1 visit, roll your neck forward next visit, pinch your shoulder blades next visit)
-Asks if I'd like a "spinal adjustment". Successful in "cracking" me 1/4 tries.


So, about 5 minutes of his time, 20 minutes on a gimmicky machine, and he manages to milk my insurance company out of 400$ per visit.

I could do that with 50$ at Sharper Image and 3 minutes on wikipedia...

actually, you can't achieve the same goal with a massage chair and wikipedia.

the massage chair/table he uses isn't supposed to feel good... it's supposed to loosen up the muscles along your spine in order for them to be bombarded with proprioception. that helps keep them loosened enough so that the muscles don't keep the adjustment from happening.

the link between the muscle/adjustment relationship is cyclical, actually. if the nerve root is irritated in the subluxated vertebra, it will cause an excitatory response to the muscles that are innervated by that nerve root level. so, the muscle gets too much of a message telling it to contract. the nerve sending the message back to the brain says, "hey, i'm tight right now... you told me to stay tight... so, i'm going to stay tight." the brain says, "ok". however, the muscle has an internal memory, so it likes to stay the way it was. so, it's a cycle.

here's the tricky part... you could have either caused the muscle to contract by either moving funny or doing something which caused the muscle to contract real fast and get "stuck" that way which could cause the vertebrae its connected to to be pulled out of place ever so slightly to cause enough irritation OR your vertebrae could be ever so slightly out of place to cause the muscle to contract. it could have started one way or the other... but the outcome is the same... it's a cycle in which fixing one will not fix the other.

so, that's why you attack it with both. you work that muscle out enough so that it stops sending the signal AND you adjust the segment so that it stops sending the message. it takes a few adjustments to make it stay because, like i said, your muscles have an internal memory.

not every tight muscle hurts, by the way. for example, go ahead and lightly massage through your muscles at the top of your forearm. you'll probably find a muscle that's tight and tender when you rub over it. you didn't know it was tight before because you didn't feel it. just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: yowolabi
I went with my girlfriend to a chiropractor, and quite frankly thought that he was full of shit.

He kept quoting some numbers that are supposed to be the optimum angles for the spine. He also told numerous stories/showed x-rays of people who had various sicknesses, and after adjusting their spine to this magical angle they all got better.

Was he representative of the typical chiropractor? If so, where do they get their information?

thats the problem. seem sa field still filled with quacks.


I am sure Eits is great (i have talked with him via PM about some things in the past) and i would have no problems going to him. just seems a crap shoot finding a honest one.

but i have confidance in a few more years it will be good.


though i do swear by message thearpy! until my insurance changed i was going twice a week every week for like a year. it kept my pain down, i was more flexible etc.

i don't think that the field is "filled" with quacks... i just think that the fact that they're out there plus the propaganda against us makes it seem like it's a commonplace thing. i'd venture to say that most chiropractors are honest and aren't going after peoples' money... it's just the bad ones out there that make people think that most are. the bad ones ruin it for the good ones way more than the good ones overshadow the bad. it's just like negative press... once the negative press is out, it's hard to overcome that first, lasting impression.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Ones I have been to are worse than used car salesmen.

Oh you need to come in x times a week.
Don't forget if you feel stiff we can take a look.
Tell your family and friends about us.

Etc.

the reason why you need to come in x times a week depends on the condition. the reason why if you feel stiff they'd want to see you is because they can treat it. no doctor would want to be in the middle of treating something and have the patient go someplace else to treat the same thing and then come back... it ruins the whole treatment plan. the reason he wants to see your friends and family is mainly to increase his practice, but i'm sure it's also so he can help them if they have problems, too. i know that i'd want to see a patients family and friends not only to build my practice, but to have that close, community feel among my patients. besides, what's so wrong with trying to build your practice?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: LS20

Originally posted by: buck
My back has started hurting and I went to a chiropractor to get it looked at. I basically got the song and dance that I needed to come in 15-30 min 2x a week for "a long time" as he put it.

I came in for a habitual cracking of my neck and spine

I got the 2x a week song and dance

-Basically, I come in, and they hook me up to an overpriced Sharper Image massaging machine for 20 minutes. (doesnt feel that great btw)
-Then "doc" comes in and tells me to do a dumb exercise each week (roll your neck back 1 visit, roll your neck forward next visit, pinch your shoulder blades next visit)
-Asks if I'd like a "spinal adjustment". Successful in "cracking" me 1/4 tries.


So, about 5 minutes of his time, 20 minutes on a gimmicky machine, and he manages to milk my insurance company out of 400$ per visit.

I could do that with 50$ at Sharper Image and 3 minutes on wikipedia...

That sounds about right. I had a pain in my neck once, and got that same song and dance. I think the quack got in trouble for insurance fraud. Serves the dipshit right.

:thumbsup: agreed, but only for the insurance fraud. not for the "song and dance"... you don't know the difference between a lateral flexion malposition and a luschka trauma or how to treat either of them. don't assume that you know more than someone who's had 5 years of medical and chiropractic education after they've already gotten their bachelor's degree.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Which medical schools have chiropractic programs?

none that i know of. however, there are various hospitals and outpatient clinics that have chiropractors on staff... especially in foreign countries, like australia and sweden.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
Q: Is it true that chiropractors worship SATAN?

A: ?

... yes. you caught us. :evil:

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
My chiropractor is awesome..specializes in sports injuries/etc & muscle stuff. I usually end up going once every couple of years..my back was all out of whack last time I went. It doesn't hurt my upper back to run anymore, so he must've done something right!

:thumbsup:

what's his name?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: LS20
so how would i stop cracking my back and neck? when i crack my neck, which is a few times a day, you can hear it from across a football stadium (and it feels soooooooo good)

go to a chiropractor and find out why you fell like you have to crack it. there's more than likely some kind of distortion he can set right. you'll feel the need to crack it much less.

it's not bad to crack your neck by simply bending your head side to side or anything... it's bad if you crank your neck by bending your head to the side and torquing your neck to the side.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Ive heard that a good chiropractor can help with frequent migraines. What sort of info do you have about this claim? What is it that they can fix?

there was a cadaver study done at johns hopkins where they ended up finding a connective tissue bridge between a couple muscles in the top of the neck and the dura. the dura = the connective tissue that covers your brain. so, the studies showed that when the muscle gets tight or if the vertebra the muscle inserts into is misalligned, it pulls on that fibrous connective tissue bridge and causes tension on the dura, which causes enough of a pressure differential in the skull which causes the migraine.

also, most "migraines" aren't migraines at all... they're cervicogenic headaches, which means that it's caused by problems in the neck, whether it's bad biomechanics, degeneration, muscles pulling and causing tension, etc.

this I agree with. my wife used to suffer nasty migraines nothing worked, as in shots, pills from our doc. The neck is my favorite part of the body to massage and not to brag im damn good at it. the only thing that gets rid of my wifes headaches is a 20 min neck routine that i put together.

I would love to have a chiro teach me how to adjust a neck and use it on her, i would never use it in my practice because it is outside my scope of official training.

good luck, man. if something goes wrong, there's a chance that the doc who taught you could get sued and thrown in jail and lose his license.

 

[ScottFern]

eits, I have a question for you. I have been to a chiro for a free evaluation (obviously no x-rays) and he informed me my right shoulder blade and my right hip is slightly turned/tweaked and because of the hip issue I believe Ihave pain in my right leg that spans from my butt to the arch of my foot. It is mostly a very dull knot feeling, but it is chronic and makes it uncomfortable to walk for periods of more than 5 minutes. I have been wanting to start running but my entire right leg feels like I just got done doing a workout and is feels completely knotted up before I do anything. I almost feel like maybe its a nerve problem in my right leg?

Now, I am not sure how to treat this issue. Massages are the first thing that come to mind and they are temporary and only seem to last for a day or two. Chiropractic treatment is somewhat expensive for me considering my HMO refuses to pay anything at all in regard to Chiropractors. The chiro I did visit told me visits would range from $40 - $60 and he wanted to see me for 10 adjustments.

Now, I have contacted my Physician and he has referred me to a Physiatrist in our medical group. I have an appointment scheduled for October 22 ($20 co-pay) however doing some research shows that Physiatrists mainly treat spinal, back, and neck issues. I am worried he might not know how to treat issues in the leg as well.

Whats the best way to go about treating this issue?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: jandrews
You appear to be someone who works in the field so frankly why would you be a source of information that should be trusted when your welfare is made in the industry? Anyway, I have never been to a chiropractor but my father had been in an accident and had gone to them for a few years. They gave him fleeting relief that usually lasted a few hours after a visit. Chiropractors are great for temporary relief just like massages but they are worthless for ongoing relief or treatment.

my clients would totally disagree with you, it works for them and have a better quality of life because of Chiro and Massage Therapy.

Doctor client relationships arent the best for testimonials. Patients often feel pressure to make their doctor feel like they are helping, I dont think that is an accurate sample.

it is when they tell you to your face with out asking i may add that they fell better, able to function better and to have a more normal life. also if i wasn't helping them they would not come back every 2 weeks for the past 3 years.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: torpid
I have recurring lower back problems. It happens in two stages... first lower muscular back pain, then sciatic pain in varying strengths caused by misaligned pelvis.

I have been to physical therapy many times, and they keep trying to get me to strengthen the muscles on the other side of my rib cage, by "holding pee in" and "sucking in the stomach" while doing leg movements. That is supposedly to prevent the initial events, but it doesn't work. They also have me do pelvic alignment exercises to push my right hip forward and left hip back. That helps moderately...

But I find it absurd that I should have to do those exercise twice a day for the rest of my life. Are there alternative, temporarytreatments by a chiropractor that would have lasting effects? Or is it a recurring appointment thing in situations like this? I do not want to go twice a week to realign my pelvis for the rest of my life either.

Also, I am somewhat confident that part of the problem is with sleeping. If I sleep in a bed, it is almost guaranteed to exacerbate the problem. If I sleep on my couch, where my back is somewhat supported when I sleep on my side, it is better. Would a "memory foam" mattress thus be advised? What are the spinal implications of such mattresses? Good or bad? What about the "comfort select" number system beds? It seems to relate to my body twisting when I sleep on my side. I sleep on my back with knees elevated when I can, but it gets uncomfortable after a while.

chiropractic adjustments have a far better favorable outcome when compared to sham adjustments (osteopathic and physical therapy adjustments). that's not to say that you won't have to be treated for a long time. you'll more than likely feel relief for longer with chiropractic adjustments than a pt adjustment. don't get me wrong, pts are amazing for rehab and core strengthening and whatnot, but when it comes to adjustments, leave it to the chiropractors. it's just like medicine... if you need antibiotics or something, don't rely on a chiropractor to tell you what vitamins or supplements or whatever to take instead... go to a medical doctor and get some frigging antibiotics.

i think memory foam beds are great. if you're going to get one, get the tempurpedic. don't get the sealy or another brand. it turns out that the non-tempurpedic brands lose their memory sooner, so you're spending a lot for something that won't last as long. if i were you, i'd go buy one and try it out for a few weeks. make sure you get it from someplace that offers a full refund if you're not satisfied... i think most bed stores will honor that.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Official ATOT Chiropractic Expert (Still in training, however)

Thanks for the chiropractic support, but isn't this a contradiction? ("expert" vs. "in training" )

Perhaps you can answer this tho. If I get my xrays from my chiropracter, how can I get them scanned to a computer image file?

you'd have to get a digital x-ray or have a radiology clinic scan them.