Chinese submarine stalked USS Kittyhawk

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Didn't this kind of thing go on all the time back when Russia was still a superpower? I know it did between submarines.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Yeah, this freedom of navigation thing that we went to war over in 1917 is no longer valid.
In fact, we should charge a toll for every ship wanting to sail on any ocean.
Thats the ticket.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,560
6,707
126
Maybe they were lost and came up to see where they were. But I do like the idea of killing anybody that gets within five miles of me. It would encourage me to move around more.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Sounds like the Chinese have a history of probing us and our allies and gauging our response.

 

OrganizedChaos

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2002
4,524
0
0
its not like we don't do the same thing. 30 years or so ago didn't we rearend a russian sub the brake checked us.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: Passions
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061113-121539-3317r.htm

I say we should have taken it out!!!!

They have no right to be within 5 miles of our carriers. :|

How about having our ASW tactics reviewd to determine what went wrong and get it corrected.

It did not force itself in there against our wishes; it exposed some weakness that needs to be addressed ASAP.

Some heads are going to roll.

 

d3n

Golden Member
Mar 13, 2004
1,597
0
0
I think on a couple of occasions soviet subs were forced to surface within sight of the US coast.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
How dare they use submarines in their own oceans!!!! I'M MAD!!!!!!!!! RAWWWWWRRRRRRRRR
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
1,401
0
0
It could have been a delivery from City Wok.




Edit: In an effort to protect their children from kidnappers, the parents of South Park hire the owner and operator of the local City Wok to build a Great Wall around the city. When crazy things like Kid trackers and Mongolions come into the picture. The parents learn a very important lesson themselves about trusting strangers.
:laugh:
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Question is, what was shadowing the Chinese sub?

The issue isnt the little cat and mouse games played by the militaries of the world. The issue is the fact we allow the Chinese to monitor our wargames and participate in them when theres a chance we could end up in a shooting war with them some day.

Not good to show your enemy your playbook.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Specop 007Not good to show your enemy your playbook.
The Great Battle of Information and Intelligence is an every-day game of tit-for-tat information/misinformation/disinformation "exchanges" amongst the world's largest powers-that-be.

nothing new here.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Question is, what was shadowing the Chinese sub?

The issue isnt the little cat and mouse games played by the militaries of the world. The issue is the fact we allow the Chinese to monitor our wargames and participate in them when theres a chance we could end up in a shooting war with them some day.

Not good to show your enemy your playbook.

True enough, but I submit that China is our strongest global ally at the moment, and as long as they strive to be an economic superpower, probably will remain so. Britain is near powerless, Germany and France are no friends, and Russia is publically hostile to US global influence. Only China has so much at stake with the US, it would be most foolhardy indeed to strain the lifeblood of their resurgence, their economic ties to the US, with some form of new cold war.

These wargames are played frequently by all capable navies. Remember, of all the people in the world, the fact remains that if you are in the navy, you have more in common with the guys in that other sub/ship, than anyone at home in either country. Navy men are a particularly brave and hearty bunch, as historically it's a fantastically dangerous job, and one that requires rigorous training and aptitude.

Tempest in a teapot to ruffle feathers over this. The distilled truth is that one of our ships was watched by one of theirs, when most likely one of our Los Angeles attack subs watched that one. All very friendly really. Naval manuevers such as that are as common as you and I breathing.

The real interesting aspect of this is how it got leaked to the press, and who stands to gain from this kind of fear-mongering.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Specop 007Not good to show your enemy your playbook.
The Great Battle of Information and Intelligence is an every-day game of tit-for-tat information/misinformation/disinformation "exchanges" amongst the world's largest powers-that-be.

nothing new here.

This happened under the current Commander's watch.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened under a Democrat's watch or my watch but it happened.

It's not pleasant to know one of our battle groups can still be taken out Pearl Harbor style in 2006.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Specop 007Not good to show your enemy your playbook.
The Great Battle of Information and Intelligence is an every-day game of tit-for-tat information/misinformation/disinformation "exchanges" amongst the world's largest powers-that-be.

nothing new here.

This happened under the current Commander's watch.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened under a Democrat's watch or my watch but it happened.

It's not pleasant to know one of our battle groups can still be taken out Pearl Harbor style in 2006.

I'm not a naval specialist, but my research into the Aegis defense systems suggests that a proper battle group would be pretty hard to penetrate with the declassifeid soviet-era torpedos and rockets. Unless I'm missing something here. Also you can basically expect that the sub in question was already being watched by one of ours. We have 50+ years of cat and mouse with a dedicated and outstanding adversary with the Soviet Union/Russia. As much as I respect the Chinese, I doubt their subs are yet up to our standards in detection/elusion.
 

catnap1972

Platinum Member
Aug 10, 2000
2,607
0
76
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Maybe the Chinese wanted to get a better look at their future property....

That or they were looking for the local Wal-Mart and got lost....
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Specop 007Not good to show your enemy your playbook.
The Great Battle of Information and Intelligence is an every-day game of tit-for-tat information/misinformation/disinformation "exchanges" amongst the world's largest powers-that-be.

nothing new here.

This happened under the current Commander's watch.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened under a Democrat's watch or my watch but it happened.

It's not pleasant to know one of our battle groups can still be taken out Pearl Harbor style in 2006.
you've got to be kidding me... you're going to blame Bush for this as well?!

what a joke...
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Specop 007Not good to show your enemy your playbook.
The Great Battle of Information and Intelligence is an every-day game of tit-for-tat information/misinformation/disinformation "exchanges" amongst the world's largest powers-that-be.

nothing new here.

This happened under the current Commander's watch.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened under a Democrat's watch or my watch but it happened.

It's not pleasant to know one of our battle groups can still be taken out Pearl Harbor style in 2006.
you've got to be kidding me... you're going to blame Bush for this as well?!

what a joke...

Don't tell me, Clinton is Commander in Chief right??? :confused:
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Specop 007Not good to show your enemy your playbook.
The Great Battle of Information and Intelligence is an every-day game of tit-for-tat information/misinformation/disinformation "exchanges" amongst the world's largest powers-that-be.

nothing new here.

This happened under the current Commander's watch.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened under a Democrat's watch or my watch but it happened.

It's not pleasant to know one of our battle groups can still be taken out Pearl Harbor style in 2006.
you've got to be kidding me... you're going to blame Bush for this as well?!

what a joke...

That's sort of what I was saying. I'm far from a Bush supporter, but I can't follow the logic of blaming him for something this obscure. I know the theory that ultimate responsiblity for all military action lies with the commander-in-chief, but logically, this has nothing to do with Bush's handling of national defense.

I do think that the story is alarmist trash, however. Strikes me as trying to cheaply score fear points, and to serve as a distraction from real issues facing us today.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Specop 007Not good to show your enemy your playbook.
The Great Battle of Information and Intelligence is an every-day game of tit-for-tat information/misinformation/disinformation "exchanges" amongst the world's largest powers-that-be.

nothing new here.

This happened under the current Commander's watch.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened under a Democrat's watch or my watch but it happened.

It's not pleasant to know one of our battle groups can still be taken out Pearl Harbor style in 2006.
you've got to be kidding me... you're going to blame Bush for this as well?!

what a joke...

That's sort of what I was saying. I'm far from a Bush supporter, but I can't follow the logic of blaming him for something this obscure. I know the theory that ultimate responsiblity for all military action lies with the commander-in-chief, but logically, this has nothing to do with Bush's handling of national defense.

I do think that the story is alarmist trash, however. Strikes me as trying to cheaply score fear points, and to serve as a distraction from real issues facing us today.
It's just another example of what occurs when civlians try to understand and second-guess the military.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Don't tell me, Clinton is Commander in Chief right??? :confused:
ummm, one time, In Afghanistan, my platoon sergeant got our squad lost... and we ended up missing dinner chow... and driving through a minefield... should I blame Bush?! ok, fine.. damn him... I think I'll write and tell him so now.

Dear President Bush...

ps: does the "d" in your nickname here stand for "Duh"?
 

astrosfan90

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2005
1,156
0
0
Originally posted by: Arkaign

True enough, but I submit that China is our strongest global ally at the moment, and as long as they strive to be an economic superpower, probably will remain so. Britain is near powerless, Germany and France are no friends, and Russia is publically hostile to US global influence. Only China has so much at stake with the US, it would be most foolhardy indeed to strain the lifeblood of their resurgence, their economic ties to the US, with some form of new cold war.

That's a bit contradictory IMO though. China is indeed the only other power in the world that can compete with the US at the moment (assymetrical warfare notwithstanding, which has rather thrown a wrench in your typical balance of power systems lately), and as such, the two are, like it or not, poised for conflict at some point. It's inevitable. The only time the US has had competition for global dominance since it's rise to power was Russia during the Cold War. I find it unlikely that the US will willingly step aside to share the helm with China in a bi-polar world, and I find it unlikely that China will deccelerate their progress in order to avoid competing with the US. As a result, we're in a bit of a political game of chicken at the moment. The only unknown is the distance to impact.

These wargames are played frequently by all capable navies. Remember, of all the people in the world, the fact remains that if you are in the navy, you have more in common with the guys in that other sub/ship, than anyone at home in either country. Navy men are a particularly brave and hearty bunch, as historically it's a fantastically dangerous job, and one that requires rigorous training and aptitude.

Tempest in a teapot to ruffle feathers over this. The distilled truth is that one of our ships was watched by one of theirs, when most likely one of our Los Angeles attack subs watched that one. All very friendly really. Naval manuevers such as that are as common as you and I breathing.

The real interesting aspect of this is how it got leaked to the press, and who stands to gain from this kind of fear-mongering.

Perhaps, but the fact that the carrier group seemed unaware of the sub's presence until it was that close is certainly rather humbling for a naval force that considers itself nearly invincible and certainly unequalled in the world.

Also agree that one of the more interesting bits is the fact that it leaked, and how. But I doubt we'll ever know.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Maybe they were lost and came up to see where they were. But I do like the idea of killing anybody that gets within five miles of me. It would encourage me to move around more.

Maybe they thought we were a chinese military vessel!!
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: tomywishbone
It could have been a delivery from City Wok.

The Chinese are making subs now? Jimmy John's and Subway are going to be sooooo screwed.