Chinese submarine stalked USS Kittyhawk

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Passions

Proof? The Japanese are America's most trusted ally in Asia.

You have the right to be an ignorant fool, you don't have the right to abuse your stupidity.

For Gods sake man, learn something from life and don't be such an apoligist for everything that you don't have the capability to understand.

Were you even alive or out of diapers in 1987?

Proof = positive

But somehow you'll come back and say that it didn't happen, they were innocent, and never did anything which resulted in Congressional bans on doing business with them.

Jap Crap

More Jap Crap

<CLIP>
The president of Toshiba Machine. MITI and the Chairman the Japan Machine Tool Industry Association, in knee-jerk reactions all called American charges trumped up. Later after employees of Toshiba Machine admitted installing the devices in Soviet shipyards, two presidents and one chairman in the Toshiba group had resigned and Prime Minister Nakasone had claimed that Toshiba had betrayed Japan, the government of Japan has prepared new legislation to be implemented to make certain that "what didn't happen" never happens again. Nevertheless, one of the leading business experts an Japan, Professor Gregory Clark (not an American, but an Australian), has called the new measures totally inadequate. Under the new legislation, if Toshiba were to do the same thing again, i.e. make a $17 million sale to the Soviets and inflicting $30 billion in damages to American security, the company would be subjected to a fine of 2 million yen ($14,000).

On May 27 1987 the Japanese police arrested two senior executives of Toshiba Machine, who had been in charge of designing and exporting machine tools to the Soviet Union, for selling four nine-axis in 1982-1984 and 4 five-axis milling machines in 1984 to the Soviets, in violation of COCOM provisions. The executives admitted the charges. Based on the Foreign Exchange and Foreign Trade Control Law Toshiba was banned from conducting business with communist bloc nations for one year, and C.Itoh. a Japanese trading company was similarly banned for three months. The one year ban for Toshiba Machine was the most severe punishment ever issued based on the Foreign Exchange and Foreign Trade Control Law. Exports to communist nations account for 12% of Toshiba Machine's total exports or about 5 billion yen.

MITI had reportedly been informed about the transaction as early as December 1985 but did not act until prompted by the US Defense Department in the autumn of 1986. In its export application. Toshiba Machine falsely described the machinery as two-axis machine tools. Anything over two-axis violates COCOM. Indeed, according to some reports in the Japanese press (the YOMIURI newspaper) "MITI officials recommend particular steps to be taken to get around restrictions of the COCOM regulations." MITI denies the charges.
</clip>

I guess I get really tired of uninformed people who act like they are so damn smart about things that they know absolutely nothing at all about.
Like this Passions clown - I've probably forgoten more than he will ever learn.

 

[Passions]

"In July 1987 Japanese Prime Minister Nakasone blasted Toshiba Machine for betraying Japan. "

Seems like a case of two Japanese businessmen who wanted to make a quick buck.

Not a case of a nefarious Japanese govt providing Soviets with technology as you make it seem.


I will say it again, the Japanese are America's most trusted ally in Asia.

If you have individuals acting on their own volition, that doesn't infer the government is in on it too.

Try to back yourself with facts next time, captnkirk, instead of puerile personal attacks.

 

[umbrella39]

"I say we should have taken it out!!!! "

Stop wishing harm upon our troops. Grow up and ship out, your we should attack anything that is not American posts are boring.

I am not surprised you think this is a game of Battleship(tm), however.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Passions

Try to back yourself with facts next time, captnkirk, instead of puerile personal attacks.

Well, even after posting links to the facts, you're still filtering content and making up bullshit to portrsy your beliefs over truth.
I'll stick to my comment that you're too stupid, arrogant, and ignorant to decifer the contents of factual data.

Try reading it again, this time with comprehention of writtin material switched on

3 executives took the fall for a 17 million dollar quick profit, at a cost of over 30 Billion in National Security
damage to the US of A . . with a pentalty to the Japanese that would have been no greater than $ 14,000 from fines.
You can bet that after a token service of pentalties, these 'executives' were rewarded with compensation for their 'service rendered'
for the good of the Corporate Profit Machine. Yeah, right, really a 'trusted' partner.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Passions
"In July 1987 Japanese Prime Minister Nakasone blasted Toshiba Machine for betraying Japan. "

Seems like a case of two Japanese businessmen who wanted to make a quick buck.

Not a case of a nefarious Japanese govt providing Soviets with technology as you make it seem.


I will say it again, the Japanese are America's most trusted ally in Asia. -- Thats not true!! America`s most trusted allie are the Polish people!!!
The Polish governmet was the first to offer assistance formally after 9/11...there are many firsts...

yet during 9/11 the Canadian government allowed us to totally close our own airspace down!! If it wasn`t for the canadians and there hospitality things could have been even worse!!

We have alot of trusted allies when the chips are down who will step up to the plate!!



If you have individuals acting on their own volition, that doesn't infer the government is in on it too.

Try to back yourself with facts next time, captnkirk, instead of puerile personal attacks.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MadRat
Yeah, no kidding about the slow comment. A diesel-electric isn't going to keep up with a major carrier. Physics works against it.

IIRC, they go near about 11 knots.. submerged.. the slowest of the battle group.. what 24 knots.. and the carrier... over 45 ...

Most likely a little slower than 45 Text

45 knots is quite fast... I agree.. However, I know two things... The first is: On a Carrier 'wind across the deck' is a fairly important factor... and the second is: In dead calm Enterprise had 49 knots of wind across the deck as it became the first nuclear powered vessel to engage an enemy by launching its aircraft against them... 1965. Another factor that I don't know for sure is the equation of revolutions of the shaft to speed made good.. but during that time the talk in CIC was that we were making 45 knots at 'X' revs... (I seem to recall it was 259 rpm)... Now I don't have a clue about big boat tactics ... PBRs hehehhehe don't launch aircraft... well.. they didn't anyhow..

 

[LunarRay]

To anyone who feels that the CBG should have engaged the Sub and perhaps sank her AFTER it surfaced has not a clue nor the political savvy regarding such issues..

You don't even shoot an enemy Sub in war time if it surfaces... that is a white flag!

It don't matter how quite a Diesel boat is when it is hit with active sonar..

A CBG makes noise hehehehhehehe can be heard 100s of miles away... they don't care if the Sub knows they are there by using Active Sonar and they do... not to triangulate a solution.. but to see if there is something in the water.. (Not the CBG Subs, of course who simply have solutions plotted on everything always)

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You people are completely crazy... off the deep end, and 95% of you have no idea what you are talking about. Too many armchair admirals here. Ask anyone who has spent any time in CIC on a US navy ship if we should have fired on that sub and they will laugh in your face.

I was in the navy for almost 7 years. I've spent time in the seas around China. I have several friends who were sonar operators on my ship while we were there.. I've sat at the sonar operator's console. Subs do this sort of thing OFTEN.

I'm nearly certain that the CBG had no idea the sub was there. Not only is the acoustic environment there terrible for sub hunting, they probably weren't even looking. Why? Because the Kitty Hawk was in about as much danger from being attacked by a Chinese sub as it was being destroyed by an errant asteroid hit. The chinese sub was seeing how well it could do, and what it could get away with. Our subs do the same things all the time. Get used to it.

During the cold war this sort of thing happened constantly. I'm really glad none of you people were in charge back then, because had we fired on every Russian sub that tried to pull something like this we would be writing these messages on clay tablets in our post nuclear stone age.

Reading the whole thread, this is really the best response I've seen. I hope others re-read it. Some of the users here need to realize that China is an emerging military power with their own plans and ambitions. It's perfectly normal for them to probe us, and vice versa. We have a professional military (shuddup Dave) and so do they, both sides are playing their roles and doing there job. I honestly believe we will see more of this, China wants to make it clear that if/when they go into Tawain that us interceeding will hurt (and hurt bad). Conversilly, they need to train so they can back that up.

Besides, as I've posted a few times over the last 6 years here, the real fun won't start for another decade when the finally decide Siberia is up for grabs

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Maybe the Chinese wanted to get a better look at their future property....

Quite possibly. Heck, they'll be building all of the ships for our military soon.