Chinese Dissident Hiding in US Embassy?

[crashtestdummy]

The story is already a few days old, but I thought I'd post since I didn't see anything here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/w...ed-states-over-dissident-chen-guangcheng.html

The administration’s only public comment so far on Mr. Chen’s case came from an unexpected source: Mr. Obama’s top counterterrorism adviser, John O. Brennan. Asked about the matter on “Fox News Sunday,” he declined to discuss Mr. Chen’s whereabouts in any detail, but he acknowledged that “we are working very closely with the individuals involved in this.”

He went on to say that the administration sought “an appropriate balance” when advocating for human rights in strategically important countries like China.

I'm interested in seeing what happens in this case. At some point, this issue will come to a head. If the US returns the dissident, it will create outrage here, as America will be seeing as kowtowing to the Chinese. If they don't, I wouldn't be surprised to see China start restricting export of rare earths to pressure the US as they did to Japan, or some sort of similar leverage.

 

[wty]

In China,it's the most famous event recently.
"The shawshenk Redemption" of the real world.
Details:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/27/chen-guangcheng-safe-american-embassy?newsfeed=true

What do a blind peasant lawyer and the privileged senior Party police boss Wang Lijun—who fled to the U.S. consulate in February—have in common? When their system failed them, each man, from opposite ends of the political spectrum, sought protection from the Americans.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/evanosnos/2012/04/chen-guangchengs-journey.html

 

[Doppel]

It's very possible China will just more or less pretend they don't care. That way all parties save face and I suspect a very high chance of this approach by both sides.

 

[rchiu]

In China,it's the most famous event recently.
"The shawshenk Redemption" of the real world.
Details:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/27/chen-guangcheng-safe-american-embassy?newsfeed=true

What do a blind peasant lawyer and the privileged senior Party police boss Wang Lijun—who fled to the U.S. consulate in February—have in common? When their system failed them, each man, from opposite ends of the political spectrum, sought protection from the Americans.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/evanosnos/2012/04/chen-guangchengs-journey.html

Yeah, and I bet for both cases, Obama will be too gutless to help the dissident.

Freedom and democracy only works until big money and big business interest gets in the way.

 

[ichy]

It's very possible China will just more or less pretend they don't care. That way all parties save face and I suspect a very high chance of this approach by both sides.

The Chinese probably want this to go away as quietly as possible. There is absolutely no way Obama will have him handed back to the Chinese government, that would be political suicide. If I had to guess I'd say he'll hang out in the US embassy for a while and then be discretely allowed to leave the country once the story has died down.

 

[Sonikku]

They should just turn him over. Protecting him could diminish our bargaining chips in the upcoming negotiations. He's blind anyway and probably wouldn't be able to do the kind of labor a Chinaman does, likely leeching off of the state.

 

[wty]

DEAL：
Chen Guangcheng




Press Statement
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State

Washington, DC

May 2, 2012




I am pleased that we were able to facilitate Chen Guangcheng’s stay and departure from the U.S. embassy in a way that reflected his choices and our values. I was glad to have the chance to speak with him today and to congratulate him on being reunited with his wife and children.
Mr. Chen has a number of understandings with the Chinese government about his future, including the opportunity to pursue higher education in a safe environment. Making these commitments a reality is the next crucial task. The United States government and the American people are committed to remaining engaged with Mr. Chen and his family in the days, weeks, and years ahead.

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2012/05/189090.htm

 

[wty]

Yeah, and I bet for both cases, Obama will be too gutless to help the dissident.

Freedom and democracy only works until big money and big business interest gets in the way.

Bingo,I guess you are a politician.
just got the result you said.

 

[Thump553]

Chen was alwasys adament about not leaving China, and besides the Red Chinese government still had his family. If this was a two party negotiation without a doubt USA and China would have arranged for him to quietly fly out of the country. As it was he made it a lose-lose situation for the USA. I think we got the best result that was realistically possible.

 

[a777pilot]

The Chinese probably want this to go away as quietly as possible. There is absolutely no way Obama will have him handed back to the Chinese government, that would be political suicide. If I had to guess I'd say he'll hang out in the US embassy for a while and then be discretely allowed to leave the country once the story has died down.

The Obama Administration has done just that....kowtowed to the Chinese and turned over this dissident to the Chinese authorities and in all probability will also apologize for interfering in China's internal affairs.

This is beyond stupid. This is criminal. WE, the people of America, ought be so ashamed of this action.

 

[crashtestdummy]

This one is hard to judge particularly because we don't know (outside of official releases) what Chen's real wishes were. If this is what he wanted, then it would seem to be a victory for the US. If he had wanted to leave the country but the US sent him back, then obviously this is a disaster. Of course, partisans in the US will slant it however they like, but the truth is that this deal was made to be intentionally opaque.

The more pertinent and answerable question is whether this is a win for human rights in China. I think the proof will come in how Chen is able to live in the next year or two. Will he still speak out, as Ai Weiwei does (with balls of steel, I might add), or will he be effectively silenced?

 

[Incorruptible]

Yeah, and I bet for both cases, Obama will be too gutless to help the dissident.

Freedom and democracy only works until big money and big business interest gets in the way.

Agreed. obama doesnt support freedom at all just look at his stance on Egypt and the muslim brotherhood

 

[a777pilot]

Do you really trust the Chinese government?

Hell, do you really trust this Obama government?

It is reported that this dissident wants to leave China. It is also reported that the reason this dissident left the US Embassy was that he was told by the Chinese government that if he didn't leave, his wife would be killed.

Wonderful people these Chinese.......................................not even close.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Do you really trust the Chinese government?

Hell, do you really trust this Obama government?

It is reported that this dissident wants to leave China. It is also reported that the reason this dissident left the US Embassy was that he was told by the Chinese government that if he didn't leave, his wife would be killed.

Wonderful people these Chinese.......................................not even close.

A good AP account of how the talks apparently went down (with some differences in view still).

The big problem is that the Chinese still had his family, and the US, short of a SEAL Team 6 raid, had no jurisdiction to remove them. Had they made it to the embassy with him, it might have been a different story. I do wonder if the government would have really killed his family, but if I were him I wouldn't have tested them with my wife and kids.

I don't trust the Chinese government to be humane, but I do trust them to act in their self interest. They know it is not in their interest to be seen as either an unreliable negotiating partner or as killing off dissidents. If they had no qualms about that, they would have killed Ai Weiwei long ago, yet they are instead trying to put him away on phony tax charges.

As for "trusting the Obama government", I don't even know how to respond to that line. Do you feel that Obama is disinterested in free speech around the world? I often wonder how people develop villainous views of political opponents. I would never vote for Mitt Romney and think he has a horribly misguided view of government and economics, but I don't consider him some evil goon trying to think of ways to ruin America. I do, however, think that is the way a lot of people seem to view politics.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Thats one PIA situation resolved. He went to the wrong embassy.

 

[a777pilot]

A good AP account of how the talks apparently went down (with some differences in view still).

The big problem is that the Chinese still had his family, and the US, short of a SEAL Team 6 raid, had no jurisdiction to remove them. Had they made it to the embassy with him, it might have been a different story. I do wonder if the government would have really killed his family, but if I were him I wouldn't have tested them with my wife and kids.

I don't trust the Chinese government to be humane, but I do trust them to act in their self interest. They know it is not in their interest to be seen as either an unreliable negotiating partner or as killing off dissidents. If they had no qualms about that, they would have killed Ai Weiwei long ago, yet they are instead trying to put him away on phony tax charges.

As for "trusting the Obama government", I don't even know how to respond to that line. Do you feel that Obama is disinterested in free speech around the world? I often wonder how people develop villainous views of political opponents. I would never vote for Mitt Romney and think he has a horribly misguided view of government and economics, but I don't consider him some evil goon trying to think of ways to ruin America. I do, however, think that is the way a lot of people seem to view politics.

Do you feel that Obama is disinterested in free speech around the world?

No, just here in America.

 

[Jaskalas]

Yeah.. about those government stories of him wanting to stay in China...

Hours later, however, a shaken Chen told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from his hospital room that U.S. officials told him the Chinese authorities would would have sent his family back to his home province if he remained inside the embassy. He added that, at one point, the U.S. officials told him his wife would have been beaten to death.

"I think we'd like to rest in a place outside of China," Chen said, appealing again for help from U.S. officials. "Help my family and me leave safely."

 

[BoomerD]

Yeah, and I bet for both cases, Obama will be too gutless to help the dissident.

Freedom and democracy only works until big money and big business interest gets in the way.

Why should the USA do anything for the dissident?

He's not a US citizen...and apparently, he's not in the USA, therefore, he doesn't deserve protection by the US government.

 

[BoomerD]

The Obama Administration has done just that....kowtowed to the Chinese and turned over this dissident to the Chinese authorities and in all probability will also apologize for interfering in China's internal affairs.

This is beyond stupid. This is criminal. WE, the people of America, ought be so ashamed of this action.

No...this has nothing to do with Obama. It's an internal Chinese problem...none of our business.

Personally, I blame the entire China problem on Richard Nixon. If he'd just have stayed home in 72...

 

[a777pilot]

No...this has nothing to do with Obama. It's an internal Chinese problem...none of our business.

Personally, I blame the entire China problem on Richard Nixon. If he'd just have stayed home in 72...

LOL!

Internal problem?

So was Egypt, Libya and Syria. I guess if that dissident had been a muslim Obama might have cared.

 

[rchiu]

Why should the USA do anything for the dissident?

He's not a US citizen...and apparently, he's not in the USA, therefore, he doesn't deserve protection by the US government.

That's right, the US should make it clear to everyone in the world already. When US interfere with other country's business, it's all about oil, big business, natural resources and play for international power. Stop the freedom and democracy bullshit. US doesn't care about anyone else but US citizens, or let's be more specific, those rich and powerful US citizens.

 

[BoomerD]

LOL!

Internal problem?

So was Egypt, Libya and Syria. I guess if that dissident had been a muslim Obama might have cared.

How disingenuous of you to make the "O'Bummer/ Mooslim" comment. I expect better from a Marine.

We should NEVER have gotten involved in Egypt, Libya, or Syria...but, apparently, we didn't learn from Vietnam...(as is evidenced by our involvement in Iraq. If only Bush had been as smart as his daddy.)

When the fuck is the US Government gonna learn that we should NOT try to be the world's police force?

 

[a777pilot]

That's right, the US should make it clear to everyone in the world already. When US interfere with other country's business, it's all about oil, big business, natural resources and play for international power. Stop the freedom and democracy bullshit. US doesn't care about anyone else but US citizens, or let's be more specific, those rich and powerful US citizens.

LOL!

But if you are an illegal in this country you will get the protection of law and free "whateveryouneed", just so long as you vote Democrat.

 

[Jaskalas]

Why should the USA do anything for the dissident?

He's not a US citizen...and apparently, he's not in the USA, therefore, he doesn't deserve protection by the US government.

A high profile individual who simply wants to escape torture, rape, and murder for his family.

Interesting take you have on that.

 

[BoomerD]

LOL!

But if you are an illegal in this country you will get the protection of law and free "whateveryouneed", just so long as you vote Democrat.

Apparently you discount the fact that "O'Bummer" has deported MORE illegals than Bush-baby ever did...

http://articles.businessinsider.com...rds-unauthorized-immigrant-illegal-immigrants

Obama has deported 1.06 million illegal immigrants through two-and-a-half years in office, Reuters reports. This puts him on pace for more deportations in his first term than George W. Bush's 1.57 million in eight years.

However, while 41% of those deported by Bush had criminal records, the proportion has risen slightly to 46% under Obama.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2011/12/...ord-levels-most-latinos-oppose-obamas-policy/

Deportations have reached record levels under President Obama, rising to an annual average of nearly 400,0001 since 2009, about 30% higher than the annual average during the second term of the Bush administration and about double the annual average during George W. Bush’s first term.

Apparently, when the truth doesn't match your rhetoric...discard the truth and stick to what you know...