China's patience with North Korea wearing thin

[Dari]

Korean food, music, and entertainment is very popular with Chinese in China and abroad. No one is talking about setting up an authoritarian state in SK. China probably prefers SK's government as is since they've managed to have good trade together and it keeps the US calm that SK is not authoritarian.

Who said anything about setting up an authoritarian state in South Korea? Democratic states can be pressured into kowtowing to powerful autocratic neighbors. Look at Finland during the Cold War. Fact is, China has always seen the Koreans as vassals. And the Koreans accepted that relationship. Given that this relationship has only been interrupted in the past 100 years by Japan and America, I'm sure the Koreans have fresh memories of what life was like (it's ingrained in them). Do they want to go back?

 

[Dari]

This aint the cold war anymore. NK is more a liability than any useful buffer zone. I mean, maybe back in the 1950's having a large land region between bitter cold war rivals was useful, but with the development of technology, it's not as useful. Plus, economic situation between all parties have changed dramatically. China wants stability, not necessarily status quo. If NK falls then that means opportunity and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for Chinese businesses.

You may be right but what makes you think the Chinese don't have anachronistic thoughts? Also, a free, open Korea could be the West Germany compared to East Germany (China), where people are allowed to escape persecution. I doubt the Chinese would want that.

 

[sunzt]

You may be right but what makes you think the Chinese don't have anachronistic thoughts? Also, a free, open Korea could be the West Germany compared to East Germany (China), where people are allowed to escape persecution. I doubt the Chinese would want that.

Maybe some of the old guard does, but the younger leaders have moved on already. It's not in their best interest to keep that cold war mentality. The thing that drives them now is business and $. Good business and $ means international trade and opening up to foreign business (albeit in their own way). Chinese people travel throughout the world and go to SK if they want to travel, assuming availability of visas. Information is restricted, but the government isn't telling anyone not to go outside the country to travel, move, or study.

 

[Dari]

Maybe some of the old guard does, but the younger leaders have moved on already. It's not in their best interest to keep that cold war mentality. The thing that drives them now is business and $. Good business and $ means international trade and opening up to foreign business (albeit in their own way). Chinese people travel throughout the world and go to SK if they want to travel, assuming availability of visas. Information is restricted, but the government isn't telling anyone not to go outside the country to travel, move, or study.

Yeah? Are you one of them? I ask because Hu Jintao, the President of China for 10 years until March 2013, is an arch conservative and he is cold towards capitalism, at least towards one where the state does not have a powerful hand. Looking at the time he has ruled, China has become less free market and more statist. SOEs have come to dominate the economy under his rule. And China has sent a cold chill towards his neighbors under his rule.

 

[sunzt]

Yeah? Are you one of them? I ask because Hu Jintao, the President of China for 10 years until March 2013, is an arch conservative and he is cold towards capitalism, at least towards one where the state does not have a powerful hand. Looking at the time he has ruled, China has become less free market and more statist. SOEs have come to dominate the economy under his rule. And China has sent a cold chill towards his neighbors under his rule.

I'm not aware of any dramatic shifts in policy that Hu has implemented or have followed his economic policy that closely to know what actions you're referring to. However, China will always seem to have a form of command economy where you never have a 100% free market. Their strategy is to always have a "guiding hand" in their markets. I do agree that China has been more outspoken and bolder in its territorial claims.

 

[Dari]

I'm not aware of any dramatic shifts in policy that Hu has implemented or have followed his economic policy that closely to know what actions you're referring to. However, China will always seem to have a form of command economy where you never have a 100% free market. Their strategy is to always have a "guiding hand" in their markets. I do agree that China has been more outspoken and bolder in its territorial claims.

This is common knowledge amongst those who study China's economy. It has veered toward protecting the SOEs. This is completely opposite of the 1990s when Jiang Zemin's government started privatizing the SOEs, laying of hundreds of thousands of people, and taking away their perks (such as apartments for life). Jiang was from Shanghai so his free-market credentials was expected. Hu did a u-turn on that.

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"We didn't realize Hu would turn out to be so conservative," said Wu Jiaxiang, a former party researcher-turned-businessman and avid blogger, summing up the disappointment of many in China's chattering classes. He dates his own disappointment with Hu to the closing of liberal-minded websites in 2005.