China's 5th generation fighter J-20A in service

[Darwin333]

They lost to us. specifically us.

They didn't have home-field advantage though, we did. That won't be the case with China.

 

[Darwin333]

Read the article........They have only made one of those jet fighters....lol

Umm, no. They have at least 6 in service with another 6 to be delivered very soon if not already. Who knows how fast they will be able to pump them out, the Chinese are a hell of a lot more secretive about their military stuff than we are.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

Yeah well Supercarriers don't grow on trees, they are the most expensive war machine ever created and probably take at least a decade to build and put in service with over 5,000 Americans serving on board. We have 11 of them with half of them always in port, right now 6 are in port, so that gives us 5 or 6 to project power around the globe. Losing even one would be catastrophic and if they can take out one then they can take out the replacement we send or start picking off its support vessels. They also have really cheap and fast missile boats that can fire 8 anti-ship missiles each, a bunch of those could very easily overwhelm all of our anti-missile defenses while putting very little of their hardware and crew at risk.

I seriously doubt that the American public, or our leaders, have the stomach to start losing carriers to fight in the South China Sea...

I don't. I do doubt we would lose one though.

 

[John Connor]

Yeah well Supercarriers don't grow on trees, they are the most expensive war machine ever created and probably take at least a decade to build and put in service with over 5,000 Americans serving on board. We have 11 of them with half of them always in port, right now 6 are in port, so that gives us 5 or 6 to project power around the globe. Losing even one would be catastrophic and if they can take out one then they can take out the replacement we send or start picking off its support vessels. They also have really cheap and fast missile boats that can fire 8 anti-ship missiles each, a bunch of those could very easily overwhelm all of our anti-missile defenses while putting very little of their hardware and crew at risk.

I seriously doubt that the American public, or our leaders, have the stomach to start losing carriers to fight in the South China Sea...

The B-1 bomber was undergoing testing with air to ship missiles. I'm sure combined with that and our subs and ships, we may have the upper hand if necessary.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

I seriously doubt that the American public, or our leaders, have the stomach to start losing carriers to fight in the South China Sea...

In America, we, the people, are the leaders. Our elected representatives are there to serve our wishes and vote the way we tell them to. I do not elect a leader...ever. I am the leader, and so should you be.

 

[Darwin333]

In America, we, the people, are the leaders. Our elected representatives are there to serve our wishes and vote the way we tell them to. I do not elect a leader...ever. I am the leader, and so should you be.

Lmao, yeah and we the people were given the choice between Hillary and Trump so you keep drinking that koolaid.

 

[Darwin333]

The B-1 bomber was undergoing testing with air to ship missiles. I'm sure combined with that and our subs and ships, we may have the upper hand if necessary.

Oh I am sure we could today but I have my doubts about the relatively near future. Like I keep saying, we'd be playing in their sandbox not the other way around and their entire strategy seems to be denying us access to their sandbox. They can field 80, if not more, of these fast missile ships right now and if even half of them get their missiles off, and it would be a hell of a thing for us to take 40 vessels out of the fight before they can fire, that is 160 anti-ship missiles headed for our supercarrier. No way in hell our defenses can handle that many missiles and they can easily pump more of those boats out. We can't easily replace supercarriers.

Keep in mind, they don't actually have to do any of these things. They only have to make the risk greater than the reward and it looks like they are on a path to do just that.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Oh I am sure we could today but I have my doubts about the relatively near future. Like I keep saying, we'd be playing in their sandbox not the other way around and their entire strategy seems to be denying us access to their sandbox. They can field 80, if not more, of these fast missile ships right now and if even half of them get their missiles off, and it would be a hell of a thing for us to take 40 vessels out of the fight before they can fire, that is 160 anti-ship missiles headed for our supercarrier. No way in hell our defenses can handle that many missiles and they can easily pump more of those boats out. We can't easily replace supercarriers.

Keep in mind, they don't actually have to do any of these things. They only have to make the risk greater than the reward and it looks like they are on a path to do just that.

there was a pretty good article, can't remember written by whom, that was basically this. china doesn't need to win an all out war, nor does it want an all out war where it would very likely lose to a better equipped military force. it just needs to keep the US out of the south china sea so it can grow. even the threat of taking down a carrier is enough.

of course, US anti missile defenses aren't staying static either, but i doubt anyone wants to find out any time soon whether existing anti-missile tactics are sufficient.

 

[John Connor]

Oh I am sure we could today but I have my doubts about the relatively near future. Like I keep saying, we'd be playing in their sandbox not the other way around and their entire strategy seems to be denying us access to their sandbox. They can field 80, if not more, of these fast missile ships right now and if even half of them get their missiles off, and it would be a hell of a thing for us to take 40 vessels out of the fight before they can fire, that is 160 anti-ship missiles headed for our supercarrier. No way in hell our defenses can handle that many missiles and they can easily pump more of those boats out. We can't easily replace supercarriers.

Keep in mind, they don't actually have to do any of these things. They only have to make the risk greater than the reward and it looks like they are on a path to do just that.

I don't think we really need to worry about who's dick is bigger in any case. If China wants to control the South China sea, then we can just ban all imports from them, fuck 'em. Also, if we ever get into a war with China it will ultimately end with each side becoming a nuclear waist land. This is why it's so important that we ramp up our anti-missile system. Then when we have the capability to take out with 100% certainty each and every missile that comes our way we will effectively will have owned the chess board. Then with time ultimately other countries will have anti-ballistic missile systems which will pretty much make the threat of the atom bomb a thing of the past.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

Lmao, yeah and we the people were given the choice between Hillary and Trump so you keep drinking that koolaid.

You also had the option to choose anyone else you saw fit, or run yourself.

 

[John Connor]

Lmao, yeah and we the people were given the choice between Hillary and Trump so you keep drinking that koolaid.

And we they people didn't vote in a primary making it those two final candidates? Last I heard that's how an election works. But just like Alpha points out, you can vote for whom ever you want. Including yourself or like some other idiots do, their damn dog, etc.

You come across as if this country's election system isn't fare or anything. If you think that then I would have a look at other countries vs our election system. Other than dead people voting for Democrats, etc It's a hell of a lot better than what other countries have.

 

[Darwin333]

If China wants to control the South China sea, then we can just ban all imports from them, fuck 'em.

That would hurt us just as bad as it hurts them. Virtually everything we buy is made or has parts in it by China. Even if we somehow could replace the supply our economy would take just as big of a hit.

Also, if we ever get into a war with China it will ultimately end with each side becoming a nuclear waist land. This is why it's so important that we ramp up our anti-missile system. Then when we have the capability to take out with 100% certainty each and every missile that comes our way we will effectively will have owned the chess board. Then with time ultimately other countries will have anti-ballistic missile systems which will pretty much make the threat of the atom bomb a thing of the past.

Missile defense systems against nations like China or Russia aren't all they are cracked up to be. They have the ability to overwhelm any system that we could reasonably field with decoys. Not to mention that both nations, as well as ours, are working on new hypersonic missiles which would be absurdly hard to stop with any missile defense system. I honestly don't think a shooting war would necessarily turn nuclear, not unless one nation was actually trying to occupy the mainland of another which isn't a goal of either. Everyone knows that launching a nuke means that you die too, better to lose a war or some territory versus getting your entire country destroyed.

 

[Darwin333]

And we they people didn't vote in a primary making it those two final candidates? Last I heard that's how an election works. But just like Alpha points out, you can vote for whom ever you want. Including yourself or like some other idiots do, their damn dog, etc.

You come across as if this country's election system isn't fare or anything. If you think that then I would have a look at other countries vs our election system. Other than dead people voting for Democrats, etc It's a hell of a lot better than what other countries have.

Not sure about you but by the time I got to vote in the primary the candidates were already chosen.

And I haven't voted for anyone on the R/D ticket for president in the last 3 elections, the fact of the matter is that you need the backing of one of our two major parties to have a chance at winning. Since they get to make the rules they have even made it absurdly difficult for a 3rd party (or more) to compete or rise to power. So yes, I can and do vote for anyone that I want but that doesn't change the fact that we are getting either a democrat or a republican and will for the foreseeable future. And I don't live in other countries and honestly don't care much about their elections, I care about ours.

Do you honestly think that the current and last few presidents are even remotely close to the best this country has to offer?

 

[John Connor]

That would hurt us just as bad as it hurts them. Virtually everything we buy is made or has parts in it by China. Even if we somehow could replace the supply our economy would take just as big of a hit.

It would be good on our part since we would have to make our own shit. It would be like WWII all over again.

Missile defense systems against nations like China or Russia aren't all they are cracked up to be. They have the ability to overwhelm any system that we could reasonably field with decoys. Not to mention that both nations, as well as ours, are working on new hypersonic missiles which would be absurdly hard to stop with any missile defense system. I honestly don't think a shooting war would necessarily turn nuclear, not unless one nation was actually trying to occupy the mainland of another which isn't a goal of either. Everyone knows that launching a nuke means that you die too, better to lose a war or some territory versus getting your entire country destroyed.

I'm well aware of hypersonic missiles. But at this time you can't tip them with a nuke. Perhaps something small. Nothing that will take out cities and radiate thousands of miles. Also, hypersonic missiles can be used as an anti-missile system. That's my vision and it's what I wrote to Trump about.

I don't agree on no one pushing the button. When your enemy is coming into your gates and you discover you are losing, the next step will be total annihilation out of desperation. But, perhaps China or Russia isn't like Japan during WWII and suicide isn't something they are willing to accept.

 

[John Connor]

Do you honestly think that the current and last few presidents are even remotely close to the best this country has to offer?

I wanted Ben Carson, but he didn't win the primary and ultimately run against Hillary. But if you don't like who is President you should be thankful our Constitution mandates term limits and the spread of power.

 

[Darwin333]

It would be good on our part since we would have to make our own shit. It would be like WWII all over again.

Do you have any idea how long it would take us to start making our own shit to even the minimum standards of what we would find acceptable much less economical?

I'm well aware of hypersonic missiles. Also, hypersonic missiles can be used as an anti-missile system. That's my vision and it's what I wrote to Trump about.

We have serious issues hitting relatively slow ICBMs with relatively slow interceptors right now. Do you have any idea how hard it would be to make a guidance system for a mach 5+ missile to hit another mach 5+ missile??? They call EXISTING missile defense "hitting a bullet with a bullet", now add hypersonic speeds to it. Not to mention the fact that the warning time is far less to even start pointing interceptors. Bottom line is that we don't have a reliable way to intercept half a century old ICBMs but you think we will have the tech to intercept a quantum leap in missile delivery tech in the near future?

I don't share your optimism but again with missile defense but I also don't think we are actually going to be in a nuclear war anytime soon.

 

[rommelrommel]

This plane is a major piece of shit, it can barely keep itself in the air. It’s not a dog fighter, it’s some kind of weird high speed missile truck possibly designed to attack awacs and refueling birds. It is not a F35 or F22 competitor or show all that much influence from either design.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

And we they people didn't vote in a primary making it those two final candidates? Last I heard that's how an election works. But just like Alpha points out, you can vote for whom ever you want. Including yourself or like some other idiots do, their damn dog, etc.

You come across as if this country's election system isn't fare or anything. If you think that then I would have a look at other countries vs our election system. Other than dead people voting for Democrats, etc It's a hell of a lot better than what other countries have.

Deads people and bus loads of folks from heavens knows where voting for the democrat de jour.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

Not sure about you but by the time I got to vote in the primary the candidates were already chosen.

And I haven't voted for anyone on the R/D ticket for president in the last 3 elections, the fact of the matter is that you need the backing of one of our two major parties to have a chance at winning. Since they get to make the rules they have even made it absurdly difficult for a 3rd party (or more) to compete or rise to power. So yes, I can and do vote for anyone that I want but that doesn't change the fact that we are getting either a democrat or a republican and will for the foreseeable future. And I don't live in other countries and honestly don't care much about their elections, I care about ours.

Do you honestly think that the current and last few presidents are even remotely close to the best this country has to offer?

People used to say that a political outsider that wasn't a long time politician didn't have a chance either... that was also wrong.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

I wanted Ben Carson, but he didn't win the primary and ultimately run against Hillary. But if you don't like who is President you should be thankful our Constitution mandates term limits and the spread of power.

Exactly, I managed to wait it out through Obamanation and I didn't think we'd make it.

 

[Darwin333]

This plane is a major piece of shit, it can barely keep itself in the air. It’s not a dog fighter, it’s some kind of weird high speed missile truck possibly designed to attack awacs and refueling birds. It is not a F35 or F22 competitor or show all that much influence from either design.

I have read and it makes a ton of sense that dogfighting, at least the way the majority of people think about it, is irrelevant in this day of advanced missiles. Most encounters will be beyond visible range so in essence all modern "fighter jets" are high-speed missile trucks.

Out of curiosity, why do you say that it can barely keep itself in the air?

 

[Darwin333]

People used to say that a political outsider that wasn't a long time politician didn't have a chance either... that was also wrong.

Plenty of political outsiders have been president before.

 

[John Connor]

We have serious issues hitting relatively slow ICBMs with relatively slow interceptors right now. Do you have any idea how hard it would be to make a guidance system for a mach 5+ missile to hit another mach 5+ missile??? They call EXISTING missile defense "hitting a bullet with a bullet", now add hypersonic speeds to it. Not to mention the fact that the warning time is far less to even start pointing interceptors. Bottom line is that we don't have a reliable way to intercept half a century old ICBMs but you think we will have the tech to intercept a quantum leap in missile delivery tech in the near future?

I don't share your optimism but again with missile defense but I also don't think we are actually going to be in a nuclear war anytime soon.

My idea with hypersonic missiles was not about shooting other hypersonic missiles down, but ICBMs.

 

[Darwin333]

My idea with hypersonic missiles was not about shooting other hypersonic missiles down, but ICBMs.

Ahh, I read an article about that being one use for them but I would still think that the targeting system would have a much harder time dealing with a hypersonic interceptor versus a conventional one. I guess you would get more chances if you missed though or maybe just put a bunch of titanium kinetic "kill vehicles" in the tip of one and shoot them like a shotgun at the ICBM.

 

[BudAshes]

They already have. They have an airbase on one of their artificial islands there that can house and launch over 70 fighters/bombers. They have been building up other bases in that area on naturally occurring islands as well. They have been doing it for years. China have been modernising their military for years also and guess who's funding it? They do steal a lot of technology though it's a deliberate part of their strategy.

They installed advanced surface to air missile systems on that island a while ago too. There is nothing the US or anyone else can do about it other than "freedom of navigation" exercises. The chinese aren't half arseing this. They have clearly been thinking about it for a while.

The problem with an air base that doesn't move though is that it gets immediately destroyed first...