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China zooms ahead in education

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USA sucking the big fat one compared to rest matches our banana republic we are becoming in infrastructure, corruption, police state, etc.
 
Amused said:
How much research did YOU do before you blindly believed this story?
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You should spend more then 40 seconds looking up the pisa test. Aside from that nobody cares about a trust fund babies opinion on world matters.

The fact that most of you ignore or discount this information is pathetic. Feeble comes to mind as a word to describe you.
 
IceBergSLiM said:
disregarding China's scores the U.S. was still behind more than a dozen other countries in every category tested.
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As COW has pointed out, we have more foreign-born people in the US than other countries listed in the article. Many of them are central americans who's culture doesn't value education as much as others and who tend not to speak English well.

If we cherry-picked from our rich areas like China did we could certainly look better.
 
Infohawk said:
As COW has pointed out, we have more foreign-born people in the US than other countries listed in the article. Many of them are central americans who's culture doesn't value education as much as others and who tend not to speak English well.

If we cherry-picked from our rich areas like China did we could certainly look better.
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They didnt cherry pick.
 
ShawnD1 said:
If they're so smart then why are they so poor? omg owned!
.
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I don't think these scores definitively shows Chinese students are better at everything or even every Chinese students are superior than their US/elsewhere counterparts. But it does show a trend, China is pouring about $60B into the education system a year trying to be the No 1 producer of PhDs, engineers, scientists in the world. Their long term goal is of course taking over high tech sectors like nanotech, CPU production, aeronautical, renewable energy research, thus making their workforce more productive in the future economic battle ground. I think they still got a long way to go but the trend is there. With sustained investment and effort they will close the gap even if slowly but surely. US unfortunately with current economic situation is cutting back on educational spending among other things.

It's the trend you have to look at, not the immediate result. And so far it is sounding an alarm for us to do something more here.
 
You have to take a few things into consideration when looking at the U.S. scores.

First the test is taken from a sample of 15 year olds. The age in the U.S. where one can actually drop out of school is 16. Dumb kids in other countries are most likely not in formal school at this age anymore.

Second in the U.S. even special needs kids are still entitled to an education and I'm sure are randomly picked to take these standardized tests. I'm sure that doesn't help our overall standing one bit. I'm willing to bet that not a single special needs child took this test in china.
 
LurkerPrime said:
You have to take a few things into consideration when looking at the U.S. scores.

First the test is taken from a sample of 15 year olds. The age in the U.S. where one can actually drop out of school is 16. Dumb kids in other countries are most likely not in formal school at this age anymore.

Second in the U.S. even special needs kids are still entitled to an education and I'm sure are randomly picked to take these standardized tests. I'm sure that doesn't help our overall standing one bit. I'm willing to bet that not a single special needs child took this test in china.
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no they dont test special needs children. If the child can not function with the test at hand they exclude them from taking the test.
 
IceBergSLiM said:
disregarding China's scores the U.S. was still behind more than a dozen other countries in every category tested.
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Now that is something to talk about. Cherry picked Chinese scores mean nothing, but other states that beat us who are measuring in similar ways, that's important.

I'm willing to bet if you measured the educational achievement of North Korean kids in Pyongyang you could probably also find some off the charts achievement. Doesn't mean North Korea isn't a shithole.
 
nyker96 said:
I don't think these scores definitively shows Chinese students are better at everything or even every Chinese students are superior than their US/elsewhere counterparts. But it does show a trend, China is pouring about $60B into the education system a year trying to be the No 1 producer of PhDs, engineers, scientists in the world. Their long term goal is of course taking over high tech sectors like nanotech, CPU production, aeronautical, renewable energy research, thus making their workforce more productive in the future economic battle ground. I think they still got a long way to go but the trend is there. With sustained investment and effort they will close the gap even if slowly but surely. US unfortunately with current economic situation is cutting back on educational spending among other things.

It's the trend you have to look at, not the immediate result. And so far it is sounding an alarm for us to do something more here.
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If the U.S. is a shining example of anything, its that pouring money into education doesn't exactly equal better results. Bags of money doesn't fix dumb. Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer/scientist/PhD.

You ever work with anyone that has a degree from a diploma mill? Who cares if your turing out more engineers/scientists if they aren't capable of doing the work.
 
ShawnD1 said:
If they're so smart then why are they so poor? omg owned!

from above link
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_34/b3948485.htm


Yeah that sounds about right for most education systems. I remember a lot of engineering class mates getting destroyed during the questioning period of their final project presentations. They'll give a presentation loaded with real facts, but they don't understand what any of it means. The most basic questions could not be answered.
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who needs to be creative when they just copy american designs?

thanks america!
 
JSt0rm said:
They didnt cherry pick.
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Hong Kong and Macau have long been wealthy areas. Shanghai is a very wealthy city. Unlike the US, cities in China are where the rich educated people are and go. China still has massive hordes of peasants. These children weren't tested. If you can't see that this isn't a representative sample than I can't help you. It's like if the three wealthiest suburbs in the US were tested.
 
Amused said:
How much research did YOU do before you blindly believed this story?
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It's not even that he didn't even read the note at the bottom of image he posted. THE SKY IS FALLING! The Chinese are going to control our mines with their integration skills!
 
Infohawk said:
As COW has pointed out, we have more foreign-born people in the US than other countries listed in the article. Many of them are central americans who's culture doesn't value education as much as others and who tend not to speak English well.

If we cherry-picked from our rich areas like China did we could certainly look better.
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What an absolutely moronic and idiotic statement.

The simple fact is, if you go to the armpit of America, where the population is predominantly white, the education levels are at the lowest. These are 'people' who believe the earth is 6000 years old and evolution is "fake". 🙄

And, when you go to the beacons of scientific inquiry and research, universities such as Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Harvard, etc. etc., there is a disproportionate representation of minorities, mostly Asians.

The report shows that in Math and Science, there is no comparison. What is sad is that Asians outperform whites in reading [English] as well! hahahahhaha...

And to those who say higher institutions of learning in the US are better than their counterparts, that is true only because american universities have BILLIONS of dollars in funding through public/private endowments. The fact that Asian universities are even competing with the american ones should be remarkable in and of itself. If the Asian universities had even half the amount of funding the american universities do, it would just be pure comedy.

Creativity is stressed in american schools but at the wrong time. From a young age, the foundation needs to be built solidly. Creativity can be stressed once the foundation is laid. The american education system is abysmally poor and the students, who are predominantly white, prove it to be so. The Asians outdo their white classmates in all fields including English which is absolutely pathetic.

Unbelievably ignorant, audacious, erroneous, and arrogant for some to blame the minorities for the state of education in america.
 
JSt0rm said:
here is some information I found on the sampling done

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-590-x/2010001/appa-eng.htm

I'm no statistician and I'm guessing most of us (all?) aren't. So to make a statement like "they cherry picked" seems uninformed. If you can show facts that show this to be true then please bring them forth.
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That only referred to their sampling techniques in Canada. I work with statistics quite a bit, but you don't need to be a statistician to see why it's bad to make a China/America/Canada comparison here. From what I can tell, the samples from America/Canada/wherever came from a population of students that would serve as a good proxy for students in the country as a whole. The sample from China came only from its most highly developed cities, ignoring the vast (and hugely populated) countryside.

In other countries this might not be that big of a problem because in the US (in a VERY general sense) a public school in Maine will likely be considerably similar to a public school in California. It's still a stretch, but you might be able to draw a valid proxy for US students as a whole from them. In China, the coastal cities are highly developed and the countryside is total shit. I remember reading estimates that per capita income in the cities was more than 5 times that of someone in the countryside. If we picked only schools in the US where the median income of the district was $250,000 or more, I don't think we would get a very representative sample of overall US scholastic achievement.
 
JSt0rm said:
That doesnt matter to the necons. This is a plot like global warming to take more of their money.
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It has already been pointed out in this thread that public schools in the US get significantly more funding than schools in many other nations. If the problem could be solved by throwing money at it, the problem would already be solved. Example: public school in Detroit is up above $10,000 per year yet the high school graduation rate is something silly like 30%. There's a lot more going on than just money.

Touchy feely liberal bullshit is one of the biggest problems. If a student can't read, what's best for the child is to hold them back until they can read. The liberal approach is to pass them anyway because we don't want to hurt their feelings. Rather than taking as much time as it takes, every student has 12 years to get through grade school and that's it. If you failed English in grade 2, you're pretty much fucked. You'll be behind in every grade after that and it's impossible to catch up.
 
ShawnD1 said:
Touchy feely liberal bullshit is one of the biggest problems. If a student can't read, what's best for the child is to hold them back until they can read. The liberal approach is to pass them anyway because we don't want to hurt their feelings. Rather than taking as much time as it takes, every student has 12 years to get through grade school and that's it. If you failed English in grade 2, you're pretty much fucked. You'll be behind in every grade after that and it's impossible to catch up.
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I have no love for our public school systems and never intend to let my future children go to one but are you sure about that? That doesnt seem like "the liberal agenda" That seems more like a enraged talking head screaming about liberals.
 
ShawnD1 said:
It has already been pointed out in this thread that public schools in the US get significantly more funding than schools in many other nations. If the problem could be solved by throwing money at it, the problem would already be solved. Example: public school in Detroit is up above $10,000 per year yet the high school graduation rate is something silly like 30%. There's a lot more going on than just money.

Touchy feely liberal bullshit is one of the biggest problems. If a student can't read, what's best for the child is to hold them back until they can read. The liberal approach is to pass them anyway because we don't want to hurt their feelings. Rather than taking as much time as it takes, every student has 12 years to get through grade school and that's it. If you failed English in grade 2, you're pretty much fucked. You'll be behind in every grade after that and it's impossible to catch up.
Click to expand...

I have no idea where people get these ideas about what 'liberal' ways of doing things are. If even a tiny fraction of the things people on here appear to believe liberals think were true, I would be right along side them being against it.

Having been a liberal for a very long time, and having known lots and lots of liberals, it's very strange to see people describe what liberals want in a way that is so alien to everything I've ever seen that I'm just left wondering what planet's liberals you guys are talking about.
 
eskimospy said:
I have no idea where people get these ideas about what 'liberal' ways of doing things are. If even a tiny fraction of the things people on here appear to believe liberals think were true, I would be right along side them being against it.

Having been a liberal for a very long time, and having known lots and lots of liberals, it's very strange to see people describe what liberals want in a way that is so alien to everything I've ever seen that I'm just left wondering what planet's liberals you guys are talking about.
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It's obvious to see the ones who have been brain washed by talk radio. We have the PISA scores to show it wouldn't be hard to tell people how to think. Maybe thats the point of our crummy school systems.
 
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