"China thinks it can defeat America in battle"

[SpatiallyAware]

You own a truck or car? Bought food lately? Bought clothes?

Where do you think your replacement car parts came from?

The trucks that shipped your food and clothes, where did the parts come from that kept those trucks running?

Spark plugs, brake pads, wheel bearings, axles, motor parts, tools,,, all made in china.

If you want to bring a nation to its knees, all you have to do is take out one key component such as wheel bearings.

No wheel bearings, no new cars or trucks.

No spark plugs, no new cars or trucks.

No starters, alternators,,,,,, nothing. Just last weekend I had to replace an alternator on my toyota truck.

Not only would our economy grind to a halt, but also our ability to produce cars and trucks, and our ability to maintain our current fleet.

Good. Gives plenty for these modern progressives with social media arts degrees to do. Gets them out of mom's basement and onto an assembly line.

 

[kage69]

The PLA is flat out delusional. I'm starting to think the presence of such out of control pollution is affecting Chinese brain function. Like what happened to the Romans with lead, only this time with added mercury, arsenic and cadmium. It's unreal how many people die in China every year from pollution. In 30 years that country will be swamped with old people and the developmentally disabled.

They have a carrier missile they're proud of and millions of surplus males, both of which will do jack shit when Mr. Seawolf comes calling. Yeah, good luck with that China.

Taiwan hasn't exactly been resting on it's laurels either. Watching China wrt Hong Kong and the expansionist provocations towards Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines has only reaffirmed their desire to resist any Chinese invasion. They have money and American support and weapons. Not exactly an easy nut to crack, particularly if other countries help rebuke China (and they would).

It's a real pity China wants to put all this effort and money into an international dick waving contest. Just think how the country and it's people could be improved if Beijing cared as much about toxic air and water as it did trying to take over other countries and their territorial waters.

The communist government has never ruled Taiwan Beijing. Just get over it and go re-read Sun Tzu, as it's clear your leaders have 'lost the way.' Or will it take a few million of your troops bobbing around face down in the straits to illustrate that?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That's actually Bloomberg's quote and he's a moron with a few billion. It read stupid last year, and still reads incredibly stupid today.

Except, with regards to China, the quote is appropriate.

Notice how absolutely nothing has changed in that year, except China is slowly being viewed by the US as an expansionist hegemonic aggressor. Today, going to war with China would be huge business for the US. In ten years time, who knows?

China has been viewed as an expansionist aggressor longer than the past year and IMO, should always have been viewed suspiciously. Instead, we favored their WTO membership and gave them exactly what they wanted.

 

[kage69]

Didn't bill clinton vote to allow china entrance into the world trade organization?

Are you thinking about Most Favored Trade status? True it was a long process, but China wasn't admitted into the WTO until after Clinton was out of office IIRC.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The PLA is flat out delusional. I'm starting to think the presence of such out of control pollution is affecting Chinese brain function. Like what happened to the Romans with lead, only this time with added mercury, arsenic and cadmium. It's unreal how many people die in China every year from pollution. In 30 years that country will be swamped with old people and the developmentally disabled.

They have a carrier missile they're proud of and millions of surplus males, both of which will do jack shit when Mr. Seawolf comes calling. Yeah, good luck with that China.

Taiwan hasn't exactly been resting on it's laurels either. Watching China wrt Hong Kong and the expansionist provocations towards Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines has only reaffirmed their desire to resist any Chinese invasion. They have money and American support and weapons. Not exactly an easy nut to crack, particularly if other countries help rebuke China (and they would).

It's a real pity China wants to put all this effort and money into an international dick waving contest. Just think how the country and it's people could be improved if Beijing cared as much about toxic air and water as it did trying to take over other countries and their territorial waters.

The communist government has never ruled Taiwan Beijing. Just get over it and go re-read Sun Tzu, as it's clear your leaders have 'lost the way.' Or will it take a few million of your troops bobbing around face down in the straits to illustrate that?

And this -- very well stated.

Even ignoring the submarine fleet, I am pretty sure China couldn't control the surface waters either. They have one ancient Russian carrier (IIRC) that they've restored and their aircraft are junk too.

 

[Texashiker]

Any number of other nations could step in and fill that void.

Don't think for a moment that should conflict occur, we could convert entire industries to producing these parts.

We need parts critical to national defense produced here in the USA. To even start we would have to build the factories, which could take years. Auto-zone, Oriely, Napa,,, must of the stuff they sale is made in china.

I doubt obama would take any action against china. If hillary gets elected, I doubt she would do anything either.

For the next 6 years china can do pretty much what it wants.

Look at the Ukraine as an example. Obama barely uses harsh language.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

We need parts critical to national defense produced here in the USA. To even start we would have to build the factories, which could take years. Auto-zone, Oriely, Napa,,, must of the stuff they sale is made in china.

I doubt obama would take any action against china. If hillary gets elected, I doubt she would do anything either.

For the next 6 years china can do pretty much what it wants.

Look at the Ukraine as an example. Obama barely uses harsh language.

What makes you think we don't already have months or years of surplus parts here in the US?

Other countries (Mexico, Vietnam, etc) would step in to fill the void and factories can be retooled if necessary.

 

[bradley]

Didn't bill clinton vote to allow china entrance into the world trade organization?

In fairness, HW Bush laid the foundations and Clinton signed us off into it. So it was bipartisan foolishness and corruption.

GW Bush was also immediately on-board with the decision.

BAUER [to Bush]: I will stop allowing China to play us for suckers. We’ve given them Most Favored Nation status 10 years in a row. They dump their goods here. And Iowa farmers are selling less to China now than they did 10 years ago. The time of them playing us for suckers will end in my presidency.

BUSH: I’m glad you brought it up. You’re not for China getting into the WTO. I am. And let me tell you something-the amount of corn that’ll be moved if China gets in the WTO will rise from 250,000 metric tons, to 7.2 million metric tons. Opening up Chinese markets is good for our farmers.

BAUER: Governor Bush, here’s your fallacy: You believe the Chinese government will keep their agreements. They haven’t kept their agreements for 20 years.

BUSH: That’s why we let them in the WTO. That’s part of agreement keeping.

BAUER: That just gives them another agreement to break, Governor.

Source: (cross-ref. from Bauer) Des Moines Iowa GOP Debate Dec 13, 1999

BAUER [to Bush]: Ronald Reagan never gave the Soviet Union most favored nation status. He always insisted on progress on human rights & national security. Our new challenge is China. They persecute their people, arrest those who practice their religion, forcible abortions, etc. Yet you’ve embraced the policy of Clinton and Gore, you want to give them MFN status & membership in the WTO. Why not follow a Reagan policy instead of a Clintonian policy?

BUSH: [I don’t] follow the policies of Clinton-Gore. They believe in what’s called a strategic partnership. I believe in redefining the relationship to one of competitor. But competitors can find common ground. It’s in our best interests to sell to the Chinese, and to make sure that the entrepreneurial class in China flourishes. If we make China make an enemy, they’ll end up being an enemy. If we trade with China, and trade with the entrepreneurial class, and give people a taste of freedom, I think you’ll be amazed at how soon democracy will come.

Source: (cross-ref. from Bauer) Phoenix Arizona GOP Debate Dec 7, 1999

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/More_George_W__Bush_Free_Trade.htm

 

[Exophase]

Look at the Ukraine as an example. Obama barely uses harsh language.

Taiwan is just a little bit more important to the USA than Ukraine is.

 

[Texashiker]

What makes you think we don't already have months or years of surplus parts here in the US?

Other countries (Mexico, Vietnam, etc) would step in to fill the void and factories can be retooled if necessary.

I do not know how much of a surplus we have.

Mexico yes, Vietnam I doubt will do anything for us.

We simply do not have the resources to fight a war with a super power.

All china had to do is take out a couple of power plants and we would be sent back to the dark ages.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I do not know how much of a surplus we have.

Mexico yes, Vietnam I doubt will do anything for us.

Vietnam is actively courting foreign investment, including ours. You also forget India.

We simply do not have the resources to fight a war with a super power.

No one wants a war. But if a war is fought, China is in deep, deep trouble. This isn't a war where we would invade China either -- it isn't necessary. We'd clobber them in the Pacific (air and sea) and they'd retreat to lick their wounds.

All china had to do is take out a couple of power plants and we would be sent back to the dark ages.

Uh, what? We couldn't do the same to them with much larger effect? I don't think you understand the massive difference between the US military and the rest of the militaries of the world.

And "a couple of power plants"? Are you joking?

 

[bradley]

I think this is the most interesting (and probable) take.

The NYTimes' 'China Threat' Myth, The 'Pivot To Asia,' And Obama's Foreign Policy Legacy
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephen...vot-to-asia-and-obamas-foreign-policy-legacy/

 

[SpatiallyAware]

We need parts critical to national defense produced here in the USA. To even start we would have to build the factories, which could take years. Auto-zone, Oriely, Napa,,, must of the stuff they sale is made in china.

I doubt obama would take any action against china. If hillary gets elected, I doubt she would do anything either.

For the next 6 years china can do pretty much what it wants.

Look at the Ukraine as an example. Obama barely uses harsh language.

Lack of ball bearings is not going to immediately cripple the US.

Just in relation to cars/trucks, it will be a hinderance, but nowadays wheel bearings last 80-100k. Spark plugs are >100k miles. These aren't things you need on a monthly basis.

Sure, in 8-12 months it could be a headache. But by that time other countries would've bought the machinery from failed chinese factories to supply us - if we weren't doing it ourselves.

 

[cyclohexane]

Lol at all these forum heroes. When was the last time the US really won a war?

I see a bunch of war mongering assholes. There are no winners in a war of that magnitude, we will bankrupt ourselves and end up with many more injured Vets that will get no help from the VA.

But the Repubs don't care about that, do they? After all, their bullshit wars have been creating casualties since the 1960s.

 

[Svnla]

Let see, beside North Korea and maybe Pakistan, china has no allies. US has (from Asia or close by region) Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, even countries such as Philippines and Vietnam are much more open/friendly to US than china right now.

Bully china has not fight with anyone recently, the last time was 1979 and it was humiliated by women and old men of the local Vietnam militia force with ten of thousands PLA soldiers lay dead at the border.

If I have to pick US or china, I will pick US because of training, equipments, and experience (real one and not from simulator games).

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Lol at all these forum heroes. When was the last time the US really won a war?

I see a bunch of war mongering assholes. There are no winners in a war of that magnitude, we will bankrupt ourselves and end up with many more injured Vets that will get no help from the VA.

But the Repubs don't care about that, do they? After all, their bullshit wars have been creating casualties since the 1960s.

Oh yeah peace and harmony man, just chill out everybody, let's all hug and make a circle and sing kumbaya and why aren't plants legalized man. Wait what were we talking about? Oh yeah evil republicans man just bringing me down

 

[SpatiallyAware]

In my opinion the big issue here isn't china directly going at war with us. As stated, it will not happen.


But what I could see happening is china using NK or pakis as pawns to wage war. Then that spiraling out control...

 

[momeNt]

The US will not, I repeat, WILL NOT, be defeated by any country or group of countries currently on this planet. The military might of the USA equals the rest of the world COMBINED.

Since FDR and onward our leaders have sought to preserve our military might should the rest of the world turn on us so that we may be victorious in battle. That still holds true today.

Feeling pretty damn American after Independence Day. Had to snicker seeing this thread title.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

The US will not, I repeat, WILL NOT, be defeated by any country or group of countries currently on this planet. The military might of the USA equals the rest of the world COMBINED.

Since FDR and onward our leaders have sought to preserve our military might should the rest of the world turn on us so that we may be victorious in battle. That still holds true today.

Feeling pretty damn American after Independence Day. Had to snicker seeing this thread title.

 

[Zodiark1593]

I do not know how much of a surplus we have.

Mexico yes, Vietnam I doubt will do anything for us.

We simply do not have the resources to fight a war with a super power.

All china had to do is take out a couple of power plants and we would be sent back to the dark ages.

Even with a diminished economy, only a fool would seek a fight with the US. In such a direct war (not like the vietnam or the middle east), public opinion is unlikely to be an obstacle, and as our production ramps up, the advantage will sway further to the US, the increase in jobs further serving to increase civilian morale.

Basically, if China (or any country for that matter) can't cripple the US from the get go, they're in for a major thrashing.

 

[Texashiker]

The US will not, I repeat, WILL NOT, be defeated by any country or group of countries currently on this planet. The military might of the USA equals the rest of the world COMBINED.

I think it was on TED there was a discussion about that very topic. No nation can defeat the united states.

The drawback to that is a nation wishing to fight the US may resort to a nuclear strike, or several strikes, then negotiate a peace treaty.

Strike a few cities like LA, Dallas, Houston, Detroit, New York,,,, with nukes, then throw up their hands, say they surrender, now go enjoy your fallout.

 

[SlickSnake]

Lack of ball bearings is not going to immediately cripple the US.

Just in relation to cars/trucks, it will be a hinderance, but nowadays wheel bearings last 80-100k. Spark plugs are >100k miles. These aren't things you need on a monthly basis.

Sure, in 8-12 months it could be a headache. But by that time other countries would've bought the machinery from failed chinese factories to supply us - if we weren't doing it ourselves.

Not to mention, the junkyards are full of vehicle spare parts. Usually only completely totaled vehicles with virtually no salvageable parts gets crushed and melted down into slag to recycle.

The Chinese are only really good for one thing strategically or militarily at this point. They produce the majority of the rare Earth Elements that are needed to produce everything from magnets and batteries and even for integrated circuits. But those rare Earth resources are known to exist all over the Earth, including in the US. But it might take an economic embargo or a war to get those US mines working up to speed and get the resources out of the ground. And in the meantime, there are means of recycling most of these rare Earth Elements, or they could be purchased elsewhere, at a higher price than China, of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_industry_in_China

 

[theeedude]

US Govt is a wholly owned subsidiary of corporate America, and corporate America makes it's money by buying cheap in China and selling dear in the US. So Taiwan shouldn't count on the US defending it.

 

[Slew Foot]

Lol at all these forum heroes. When was the last time the US really won a war?

I see a bunch of war mongering assholes. There are no winners in a war of that magnitude, we will bankrupt ourselves and end up with many more injured Vets that will get no help from the VA.

But the Repubs don't care about that, do they? After all, their bullshit wars have been creating casualties since the 1960s.

The US is fantastic at blowing the shit out of other countries without regard for civilians and crap. Its when we try and be selective and try to implement favorable governments that we get into trouble.

 

[smackababy]

I think it was on TED there was a discussion about that very topic. No nation can defeat the united states.

The drawback to that is a nation wishing to fight the US may resort to a nuclear strike, or several strikes, then negotiate a peace treaty.

Strike a few cities like LA, Dallas, Houston, Detroit, New York,,,, with nukes, then throw up their hands, say they surrender, now go enjoy your fallout.

That is assuming the ICBMs will hit those cities (hint: they won't). Why do you think we have satellite bases? It isn't because we just enjoy the view in Turkey and Guam. Why do you think we strongly oppose foreign military satellite bases in places like Cuba? We wouldn't have enough time to react to a launch.