Lift U.S sanctions for an end to their nuclear program
look how easy that was
Iran's GDP would basically skyrocket. So which is better.. a rich Iran with money to build a massive military or a poor Iran with nuclear weapons
Iran is a sovereign nation and therefore has the right to pursue the development of nuclear weapons. If other nations don't like it, they have one option: war.
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
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This is really good news. That China would do this. I think if China wants to send out a positive note here they should go the whole road and take care of this on there own . I think we pretty much all now most ARABs are liars. Just like the good old USA is now . Its new to the the USA mass lieing( What can ya say when X president clinton stands in front of the whole nation lieing out his ass . I never had sex with that woman I mean oh really. But its old hat to the arabs They been lieing for at least 6 thousand years. Ya guys know the Isaac story right, 2 half brothers and which son was to be offered up as an offering to God. The jews say it was Isaac the other whos name is worthless to me and not worth the misspelling name either way. But any way Issac father of the jewish nation . The other father of the lieing Arabs nation. The other was born to egyptian(decendent of cain ) hand maiden to sarah a decendent of adam. Isaac was the second child born but sarahs first. Second son of Abraham
So you see the arabs being decendents of cain just got bad genes. Murder lieing cheating all come to them naturally.
I can tell ya for fact . If someone doesn't take care of this right away . The Jews will . Thats the last thing we want. befor someone says same gene pool. Not quit . You really don't think that the sin in the garden was about eating fruit do ya. Cain was Satans Son not Adams, Ya really need the orginal text for this . As some of the early hebrew greek and other transalations are way off. But the just of it was this Satan fully seduced eve and completely stimulated her back bone. Well when it all over with Eve runs off to adam and says hay ya want a piece of this. Adam bit right into it . Adams apple were that come from . Well after the deed is done God comes looking for adam and he is hiding from the lord and he covers his shame with leaves. Gods calling out to adam but he won't ans. Ya know what happens when you know your ass is grass. How ya swallow when you know your in deep crap. Thats were Adams apple comes from.
It was a religious reason to cover up the trueth of what really happened not because getting begotten in the Bible is news. Because why . Because cain being born of satan and all others from adam . It would cause massive problems and disrupt organized religion.
So you see the arabs being decendents of cain just got bad genes. Murder lieing cheating all come to them naturally.
I can tell ya for fact . If someone doesn't take care of this right away . The Jews will . Thats the last thing we want. befor someone says same gene pool. Not quit . You really don't think that the sin in the garden was about eating fruit do ya. Cain was Satans Son not Adams, Ya really need the orginal text for this . As some of the early hebrew greek and other transalations are way off. But the just of it was this Satan fully seduced eve and completely stimulated her back bone. Well when it all over with Eve runs off to adam and says hay ya want a piece of this. Adam bit right into it . Adams apple were that come from . Well after the deed is done God comes looking for adam and he is hiding from the lord and he covers his shame with leaves. Gods calling out to adam but he won't ans. Ya know what happens when you know your ass is grass. How ya swallow when you know your in deep crap. Thats were Adams apple comes from.
It was a religious reason to cover up the trueth of what really happened not because getting begotten in the Bible is news. Because why . Because cain being born of satan and all others from adam . It would cause massive problems and disrupt organized religion.
I heard another interesting and scary theory as to why China is spilling the beans so to speak. It is that through their dealings with Iran they had gained intimate knowledge of Iran's plan to nuke Israel or US targets and decided in the long run they could not afford to let that happen. So they are indirectly attempting to stop it by releasing the information about Iran's program.
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
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I need to add this link . You guys might not understand what I am doing but inorder to understand who these arab are you need to now who they came from gene pool.
So heres alink . Its a close to the trueth as I can show ya. I don't know if you guys recall but I told ya befor . In order for a lie to work it has to be buried in the trueth.
http://www.frank.germano.com/gardenofeden.htm Frank makes a few mistakes here but its not far enough off to cause any misunderstandings. So a few of your misguided teaching may get trampled on here. What is a God day compared to a man day. How long is an era? Earth creation happening in 6 man days LOL. You would have to be retarded to believe this. Be prepared to be shocked here . But their is so much more ya need to know . But its not my job to show ya this stuff.
FOR A LIE TO WORK IT MUST BE BURIED IN THE TRUETH.
So heres alink . Its a close to the trueth as I can show ya. I don't know if you guys recall but I told ya befor . In order for a lie to work it has to be buried in the trueth.
http://www.frank.germano.com/gardenofeden.htm Frank makes a few mistakes here but its not far enough off to cause any misunderstandings. So a few of your misguided teaching may get trampled on here. What is a God day compared to a man day. How long is an era? Earth creation happening in 6 man days LOL. You would have to be retarded to believe this. Be prepared to be shocked here . But their is so much more ya need to know . But its not my job to show ya this stuff.
FOR A LIE TO WORK IT MUST BE BURIED IN THE TRUETH.
What a bunch of baloney, that sounds like the typical Rumsfeld-esque anti <insert whatever foe> BS. Until and unless the UN actually officially confirms any such new information, I'll see this as just another in a long list of "leaks" that purport to "confirm" the US position on Iran to try and push towards military action. Color me cynical.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,910
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The whole idea about sovereignty is no different than civil rights within one's own country, the good of the one outweighs the desires of the many. People in the past twenty five years have really tried to erode those inalienable rights. Fortunately this is an impossible conclusion. The only way to take away the sovereignty of Iran is to basically undo the implied sovereignty of every nation on the face of the earth. Any nation that participates in that action must therefore be aware of the consequences. Do people really want to destroy the notion of independence amongst nations? How would the U.S. like it if the world suddenly decided to move in and police backwards ass municipalities within Alabama or Mississippi that also just happen to lie within the United States?
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,030
- 2
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I agree with you about the sanctions, totally.
Our political aggression toward Iran has made them scared, and scared people act out.
The younger generation is much more pro-western-minded, and if we back off, and play the waiting game, let these old kooks die out, Iran could end up being a good ally for us in the ME. Instead of a terrorist training ground.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
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fixed.
Neither of those choices are acceptable to me -- they'll end up with nuclear weapons regardless of which track we take -- but others may be willing to let it happen...
so now what?
Our options:
A) Continue to escalate sanctions, forever, and hope that they never get nuclear weapons.
B) Escalate sanctions -and- bomb their entire nuclear infrastructure - U.S. and/or Israel.
C) Lift sanctions and hope that they never get nuclear weapons.
D) Lift sanctions and let Iran get nuclear weapons.
E) ?
- Oct 30, 2000
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Waiting game works well.
NK, Cuba as an example.
Problem makers get passed onto another generation or last 40-50 years.
Telegraph.uk has printed a bunch of these anti-Iran rumors. I will not worry about it until I see them corroborated by credible sources.
Yes, that must be exactly what happened. Iran as everybody knows is chock full of insane ayatollahs. And they've decided that the best course of action for Iran is to nuke either Israel or the US (or both!). And this despite the fact that either country would hesitate, oh, about a day or two to verify things, before they turned the entire country into a glass-paved parking lot, incinerating untold millions of Iranians, destroying every mid to major sized city, and leaving the entire country a smoking, radioactive ruin that would make Hiroshima and Nagasaki seem like a minor fender bender in comparison.
And of course, they decided to let China in on this (it's not a secret unless you tell someone!) so they could have advance notice that Iran wouldn't be meeting any contractual obligations for the next couple of hundred years.
With all due respect, did you think this out before you posted it?
Regards,
Jebeelzabub
It's interesting how Germany is the main source of funding for Iran and the source of the 9/11 plot. Germany is responsible for so much of the security threats to the United States, yet we ignore it. Solving this Iran issue will not do anything in the long-term. You have to go to the king, not the pawn.
U.S sanctions do not work on Iran the way the U.S had hoped.
Iran's economy continues to grow despite 1/2 the oil revenue and 3x the population when compared to the 1970s.
You cannot bomb Iran. Iran will attack the U.S and U.S interests right back. You make it sound like it is a piece of cake.
U.S can lift sanctions. Iran's economy will triple. U.S can put back sanctions. Iran's economy will collapse. Collapsed economy means good-bye regime.
So long as the economy continues to grow the people are happy.
When the economy triples the people will be used to that way of life. When it starts to decline again they will be upset and the government will be blamed.
So yes U.S sanctions are a perfect negotiating tool.
You do not know the history of Iran because everything I have said has been proven to be correct. So the only thing pointless here is your military U.S can bomb anyone and get away with it thinking which is on par with a 13 year old playing GI-JOE.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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I didn't make anything "sound like it is a piece of cake." I merely listed each and every option in simple back and white easy-to-understand terms.
Listen here, I've said a hundred times that I never want to see Iran attacked - by anyone - including the U.S. In this very thread, I mentioned that I pray every day for a non-violent solution to this problem.
So stick your false accusations and blanket stereotypes where it's dark.. k? good...
That said, AFAIC, the world cannot allow Iran to have nukes, and I'm not sure your little sanctions game will stop them... so, once again, NOW WHAT?!
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
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It does seem a bit sensationalistic.
New info was presented in February. I don't belive we fully know what was presented. Apparently, some of that info prompted other UN members to come forward with additional info. Of course, we don't know what that is either.
But otherwise, mostly I'm irked at, and object to, the lack of transparancy of the UN and the secretive way it conducts this sort of business.
Fern
Do you have communication problems as well? I think you do.
It's OK.
you are not sure? yet you do not even want to try.
Brilliant.
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,030
- 2
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Personal attacks? Check.
You contradict yourself here. You keep saying that you wish this problem could be resolved via nonviolent means, then follow it up with saying that it is totally unacceptable for Iran to have nukes. You need to either face up to the reality that it would take bombing or even an invasion to prevent Iran from getting nukes, or, you need to come out of the closet and tell the truth regarding your support for military action to prevent Iran from getting nukes.
The truth is, what it would actually take militarily to prevent Iran from getting nukes is going to be a lot worse than just letting Iran have them anyways.
They obviously know the consequences of using them preemptively. Thinking they'd do it anyway is just ridiculous.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
OK, so, you've decided that there aren't any non-violent ways to stop them; so, we should just let them get nukes... got it.
As for me, I'm against Iran having nukes. Period.
We must attempt every possible non-violent solution to the problem first; but, at the end of the day, we simply cannot allow them to ever have the bomb. Period.
- Mar 20, 2000
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bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,030
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You and I both know that short of showering them with gifts paid for by you and me and millions of other taxpayers (or our grand children rather) there aren't any non-violent ways of preventing them from getting nukes. If they want them, they are gonna get them. But I am glad that you can now admit to supporting military action against Iran in order to prevent them from obtaining them. Unfortunately, that's not going to make things any better, and if air strikes fail, we're gonna be in a real bad spot. On top of all of the other bad spots we're in already.
Looks like I am not the only one that thinks #3 is a concern;
U.S. Diplomats Forecast Nuclear Arms Race in Middle East if Iran Gets the Bomb
George Bush and the far right in Israel, have taken complex ME issues and boiled them down into simplistic solutions that aren't really solutions at all. If Iran were to be bombed in order to prevent them from getting a nuclear weapons capability, do they really belive that all their problems would be solved? As with the Iraq war, which was supposed to turn all ME dictatorships into American style democracies, the plan to neutralize Iran is fraught with unintended consequences.
Without a reasonable settlement to the Palestinian conflict, nothing will come of any attempts to protect Israel. Until they start dealing with their neighbors in a constructive way, they will be perpetually insecure and under the threat of attack.
On April 9, 2003, we won the battle against a tattered Iraq. But Iran, without firing a shot won the war for Iraq; a triumph for the Khomeini revolution, one of Shia's greatest moments since Saladin removed the Shia Fatimids in Cairo in 1171. The occupation of Iraq transferred control in Mesopotamia to Iraq?s 60% Shia majority, a event that turned Iran into an regional powerhouse. The British think tank, Chatham House concluded in August 2006: ?The greatest problem facing the U.S. is that Iran has superseded it as the most influential power in Iraq.?
The Arab Shia look to Iran for deliverance; leverage in Tehran?s arsenal in dealing with Arab oil Sheikhdoms. Egyptian President Mubarak declared recently that Shia's in Arab states were more loyal to Iran than to their own countries.
Washington needs today to deal with Iran as a major power in the world?s biggest oil region. GCC rulers in Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UAE are too feeble to challenge Iran. These men are non-representative dictators pre-occupied in outdoing each other on who owns the more ostentatious palace and who flies the bigger private Airbus or Boeing airplane.
Without a reasonable settlement to the Palestinian conflict, nothing will come of any attempts to protect Israel. Until they start dealing with their neighbors in a constructive way, they will be perpetually insecure and under the threat of attack.
On April 9, 2003, we won the battle against a tattered Iraq. But Iran, without firing a shot won the war for Iraq; a triumph for the Khomeini revolution, one of Shia's greatest moments since Saladin removed the Shia Fatimids in Cairo in 1171. The occupation of Iraq transferred control in Mesopotamia to Iraq?s 60% Shia majority, a event that turned Iran into an regional powerhouse. The British think tank, Chatham House concluded in August 2006: ?The greatest problem facing the U.S. is that Iran has superseded it as the most influential power in Iraq.?
The Arab Shia look to Iran for deliverance; leverage in Tehran?s arsenal in dealing with Arab oil Sheikhdoms. Egyptian President Mubarak declared recently that Shia's in Arab states were more loyal to Iran than to their own countries.
Washington needs today to deal with Iran as a major power in the world?s biggest oil region. GCC rulers in Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UAE are too feeble to challenge Iran. These men are non-representative dictators pre-occupied in outdoing each other on who owns the more ostentatious palace and who flies the bigger private Airbus or Boeing airplane.
To elevate a country whose government is an Islamic militant regime that w ants Israel wiped off the map has made similar threats to the US and is a terrorist supporting nation as a respectable major power is insane.
They do not deserve and will never deserve that kind of respect until Ahmadinejad and his theocracy is dead and buried.
Likewise letting them acquire nuclear weapons is equally insane
For example what happens to the nuclear weapons in the chaos and aftermath if Ahmadinejad and his cronies get toppled?
And it could happen one day:
'Death to Ahmadinejad,' Iranian crowds cry
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