China puts missles, fighter jets in disputed islands

[Charmonium]

A quick Google tells me that they've held these islands since the 1950s. Is that not the case? Why should we care?

Not sure if this was mentioned but I think the "islands" sit on top of natural gas or oil reserves - pretty substantial ones I think. BTW aren't these islands really just areas of shallow water that were filled in to create islands?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Not sure if this was mentioned but I think the "islands" sit on top of natural gas or oil reserves - pretty substantial ones I think. BTW aren't these islands really just areas of shallow water that were filled in to create islands?

So is the dispute that Vietnam is worried China will hog/rapidly drain those reserves? Everything I'm reading suggests that China controlled these islands for the better part of the last millennium and it was only the French and then the Japanese that stole them in the 1930s and 40s. I'm fully sympathetic to a case like Taiwan which represents a government in exile, and one with a much greater human rights record, but this case looks like Western assholes perpetuating the problems they caused in the first place.

 

[Svnla]

There are a lot of misinformation about this topic from several posters.

FACTS:

china did not control the Paracels until it sneakily attacked South Vietnam at Woody Island in 1974, after South Vietnam was about to collapse from years of civil war with North Vietnam. Google "Paracels Battle 1974" or read this = http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/lessons-from-the-battle-of-the-paracel-islands/

It is not about some rocks, it is about the lifeblood and survival of some of the closest allies of US such as Taiwan, Japan, S. Korea. Take a look at this red line, china is claiming 90% of South china Sea, an international body of water, as its own.

https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0ae722370b5d8c13728fe1f56fd80cb4?convert_to_webp=true

Imagine Iran is claiming 90% of the Persian Gulf as its own.

Oh, this is a good one. Since South china Sea has the word "china" in it, it belongs to china per chinese admiral =Chinese Admiral: South China Sea ‘Belongs to China’ = http://thediplomat.com/2015/09/chinese-admiral-south-china-sea-belongs-to-china/

Talk about sheer stupidity. So Gulf of Mexico belongs to Mexico? Indian Ocean belongs to India? Persian Gulf belongs to Iran?

The neighbors are getting nervous about china.

Japan is increasing its defense = http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-ever-defence-budget-to-counter-chinas-reach

Australia is increasing its defense = http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-see-australia-vow-to-boost-defense-spending

Vietnam is increasing its defense = http://thediplomat.com/2016/02/vietnam-now-worlds-eighth-largest-arms-importer/

Philippines is now welcoming the US back with open arms = http://learningenglish.voanews.com/content/philippines-welcome-us-military-back/3044221.html

Singapore (with substantial citizens with chinese background) is welcoming US ships = http://www.businessinsider.com/us-will-deploy-two-littoral-combat-ships-to-singapore-2015-4

Not one single ASEAN or the neighbors are ok with how china's behavior.

What is the old saying? Something about those that ignore history shall doom to repeat it. Bully china is behaving just like Nazi Germany in the 1930's, right before the start of WWII.

 

[Tequila]

Tick tock tick tock...

...Doomsday clock

 

[Sonikku]

And China will build a few subs for every carrier.

Who cares? The whole point is it puts more tax dollars into the hands of the defense industry.

 

[alien42]

so China has recently built up significant military defenses on these islands...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38319253

guess we're going to find out how Trump handles this situation soon enough.

 

[Jaskalas]

China has a LOT more leeway if Duterte hands the Spratly Islands over.

 

[agent00f]

A quick Google tells me that they've held these islands since the 1950s. Is that not the case? Why should we care?

Time to re-up that white welfare.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not sure if this was mentioned but I think the "islands" sit on top of natural gas or oil reserves - pretty substantial ones I think. BTW aren't these islands really just areas of shallow water that were filled in to create islands?

It's a broad area of reefs, cays & small islands. A lot of them are underwater at high tide. There's apparently some potential for oil & gas. Otherwise there would be no real issues because nobody lives there.

 

[baydude]

China has a LOT more leeway if Duterte hands the Spratly Islands over.

Why would Philippines give up their claimed territory?

 

[Jhhnn]

so China has recently built up significant military defenses on these islands...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38319253

guess we're going to find out how Trump handles this situation soon enough.

Handle it how? We have no claim to the islands. If nobody starts shooting, we have no reason to intervene & probably not then. Meanwhile, the Chinese will continue to develop & legitimize their claim, something the others aren't doing.

 

[baydude]

Handle it how? We have no claim to the islands. If nobody starts shooting, we have no reason to intervene & probably not then. Meanwhile, the Chinese will continue to develop & legitimize their claim, something the others aren't doing.

We can continue our freedom of navigation

 

[agent00f]

We can continue our freedom of navigation

Damn those chinese are so scary. Better prepare some more red area handouts to "defend" our freedumbs.

 

[1prophet]

How about you blame the real culprits who have helped China become able to do such things,

Greedy American CEO's that brainwashed cheap as fuck Americans that they will bring Democracy to China through free markets while Americans get to enjoy cheap goods.

Instead what you got is China playing possum with you so you can built up their manufacturing while they stole your IP and Trade secrets, Americans who now look at burger flipping as a career, loss of many valuable skills from industries that no longer exist in the USA, and of course China now is in a position to flex its muscle knowing you are too beholden to the most powerful drug, greed, which they have successfully used against you.

But remember , profits only matter, not country, national security, or taking care of your own.

 

[agent00f]

How about you blame the real culprits who have helped China become able to do such things,

Greedy American CEO's that brainwashed cheap as fuck Americans that they will bring Democracy to China through free markets while Americans get to enjoy cheap goods.

Instead what you got is China playing possum with you so you can built up their manufacturing while they stole your IP and Trade secrets, Americans who now look at burger flipping as a career, loss of many valuable skills from industries that no longer exist in the USA, and of course China now is in a position to flex its muscle knowing you are too beholden to the most powerful drug, greed, which they have successfully used against you.

But remember , profits only matter, not country, national security, or taking care of your own.

The vast majority of margins on cheap imports are paid to american service labor. Eg $50 jeans, <$10 to the chinese, maybe $5 "profits", the math here isn't hard.

 

[MajinCry]

Had Teddy been alive, he'd have sailed the entire PacFlt into that area and launched Red/Blue drills for 2 weeks, buzzing the shit out of those islands.

Let's have a guy that would look at China, and say "I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Gooks are dead Gooks, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.".

What a great idea. Let's be more like that man.

Fuckin' hell.

 

[momeNt]

Let's have a guy that would look at China, and say "I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Gooks are dead Gooks, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.".

What a great idea. Let's be more like that man.

Fuckin' hell.

If we are on the winning side I'm not sure it's such a bad thing.

Honestly I think the world is a bit out of touch with the potency of the American War Machine. I think LegendKiller has a point, we need to respond strongly to this once Trump is in office. Borders will always be defined by war, not diplomacy, the US seems to have forgotten that.

 

[Jhhnn]

If we are on the winning side I'm not sure it's such a bad thing.

Honestly I think the world is a bit out of touch with the potency of the American War Machine. I think LegendKiller has a point, we need to respond strongly to this once Trump is in office. Borders will always be defined by war, not diplomacy, the US seems to have forgotten that.

Bullshit. We have no claim to any of it. In order to actually do anything we'll need to start shooting because... because what, exactly? I seriously doubt that our regional friends who also have claims want that at all.

Meanwhile, the Chinese will play the long game & win unless other claimants start doing the same.

 

[Svnla]

Bullshit. We have no claim to any of it. In order to actually do anything we'll need to start shooting because... because what, exactly? I seriously doubt that our regional friends who also have claims want that at all.

Meanwhile, the Chinese will play the long game & win unless other claimants start doing the same.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-18/vietnam-expanding-south-china-sea-runway/8037248

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...age-china-fighter-jets-drones-south-china-sea

See my post above in 2/2016 with multiple links about how the neighbors are upgrading their defense = https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...disputed-islands.2465034/page-3#post-38053654

Bully china will win? Yeah, win against old monks in Tibet and young students at Tiananmen Square is more like it. Much harder to win when the opponents could shoot back.

For the last few thousands years, look like the smaller neighbors of china know how to play the long game and win against the big bully china because they are still independence nations despite china tried and tried to invade and swallow them multiple times.

 

[momeNt]

Bullshit. We have no claim to any of it. In order to actually do anything we'll need to start shooting because... because what, exactly? I seriously doubt that our regional friends who also have claims want that at all.

Meanwhile, the Chinese will play the long game & win unless other claimants start doing the same.

We have a responsibility to the world. Learn from Germany and Austria.

 

[Jhhnn]

We have a responsibility to the world. Learn from Germany and Austria.

Gawd. The situations are in no way analogous.

 

[bshole]

For the last few thousands years, look like the smaller neighbors of china know how to play the long game and win against the big bully china because they are still independence nations despite china tried and tried to invade and swallow them multiple times.

Like the American military is doing much better bombing the ever living shit out of 3rd world nations in the Middle East. In terms of bullying, China is a fucking piker when compared to the United States. It actually engages in disputes that are important to its own national interests. America bombs and maims and murders in countries that have NO national interests.

So we have the same neocons who gave us 15 years of failure and mayhem in the Middle East now attempting to goad us into a fight with a country that can actually fight back over islands of no importance to us. All I can say is FUCK YOU.

 

[momeNt]

Gawd. The situations are in no way analogous.

The US for the last century has been the arbiter of border disputes, by way of the strongest military. China seems to have forgotten that, I'm just saying that it is my opinion, that we settle it for them, as we've done for the rest of the world. That's how I'm drawing the analogy.

I think the best solution is to draw the map, broadcast the map, and set a countdown for everybody to abide by it, if the clocks strikes zero, America moves in, and moves you out. Period.

 

[Jhhnn]

The US for the last century has been the arbiter of border disputes, by way of the strongest military. China seems to have forgotten that, I'm just saying that it is my opinion, that we settle it for them, as we've done for the rest of the world. That's how I'm drawing the analogy.

I think the best solution is to draw the map, broadcast the map, and set a countdown for everybody to abide by it, if the clocks strikes zero, America moves in, and moves you out. Period.

That's one of the stupidest & most arrogant things I've ever read on this forum, and I've read plenty.

 

[Svnla]

Like the American military is doing much better bombing the ever living shit out of 3rd world nations in the Middle East. In terms of bullying, China is a fucking piker when compared to the United States. It actually engages in disputes that are important to its own national interests. America bombs and maims and murders in countries that have NO national interests.

So we have the same neocons who gave us 15 years of failure and mayhem in the Middle East now attempting to goad us into a fight with a country that can actually fight back over islands of no importance to us. All I can say is FUCK YOU.

Did you even bother to read what I wrote? I even provided the post with links from 2/25/2016.

Here it is again, not just about islands of no importance to us as you claim... it is about...

It is not about some rocks, it is about the lifeblood and survival of some of the closest allies of US such as Taiwan, Japan, S. Korea.

US military commander in Pacific region..china can not shut off the SCS = http://thediplomat.com/2016/12/us-pacific-commander-china-cant-shut-off-south-china-sea/

You were saying something about "All I can say is FUCK YOU"..yeah, fuck YOU right back, learn how to read and do some research before you open your mouth.