China is terrifying

[realibrad]

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...ogizing-uighur-muslims-mental-illness/568525/

One million Muslims are being held right now in Chinese internment camps, according to estimates cited by the UN and U.S. officials. Former inmates—most of whom are Uighurs, a largely Muslim ethnic minority—have told reporters that over the course of an indoctrination process lasting several months, they were forced to renounce Islam, criticize their own Islamic beliefs and those of fellow inmates, and recite Communist Party propaganda songs for hours each day. There are media reports of inmates being forced to eat pork and drink alcohol, which are forbidden to Muslims, as well as reports of torture and death.



The sheer scale of the internment camp system, which according to The Wall Street Journal has doubled in China’s northwestern Xinjiang region just within the last year, is mind boggling. The U.S. Congressional-Executive Commission on China describes it as “the largest mass incarceration of a minority population in the world today.” Beijing began by targeting Uighur extremists, but now even benign manifestations of Muslim identity—like growing a long beard—can get a Uighur sent to a camp, the Journal noted. Earlier this month, when a UN panel confronted a senior Chinese official about the camps, he said there are “no such things as reeducation centers,” even though government documents refer to the facilities that way. Instead, he claimed they’re just vocational schools for criminals.

With talk of Myanmar and Muslim genocide, I wonder if we wills see the same thing happen with China. Myanmar is resource constrained which is why they probably did not do even worse, but, China does not have such limitations.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Well. That should help create more moderates around the world...

 

[Stokely]

Too bad they are Muslims, half this country just nods their head in approval and wishes we'd do the same.

 

[realibrad]

Too bad they are Muslims, half this country just nods their head in approval and wishes we'd do the same.

I don't know about half, but, far too many for sure. The sick/sad irony is that if those people got their way, they would create the world they say they don't want.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

According to Chinese officials, it is fake news. We do indeed live in interesting times...

 

[realibrad]

According to Chinese officials, it is fake news. We do indeed live in interesting times...

Internally, they refer to these places as reeducation camps. China is really turning into 1984.

 

[Atreus21]

The faster China's government goes down the shitter, the better.

 

[hal2kilo]

The faster China's government goes down the shitter, the better.

And that will happen when and why?

 

[Commodus]

Sadly, I suspect a few of our forum members were masturbating furiously to that report, because that's what they'd like in all countries.

 

[1prophet]

What's more terrifying, China doing what China always did or Americans using China to fatten their precious pockets while looking the other way at human right abuses, lack of safety laws, no unions, lax environmental laws, etc?

 

[realibrad]

What's more terrifying, China doing what China always did or Americans using China to fatten their precious pockets while looking the other way at human right abuses, lack of safety laws, no unions, lax environmental laws, etc?

Definitely the people doing the horrible things.

 

[Indus]

The faster China's government goes down the shitter, the better.

I dated a Chinese girl.. quite an intellectual but she always thought China will not change because they have had a 1 voice authoritarian society for 5000 years. She had a point.. traditions die hard.

 

[Rifter]

What's more terrifying, China doing what China always did or Americans using China to fatten their precious pockets while looking the other way at human right abuses, lack of safety laws, no unions, lax environmental laws, etc?

Pretty much this, everyone is writing in this thread with computers and phones/tablets all made in china, all supporting this country committing these acts, yet are on here whining about human rights violations.

When very obviously cheap goods means much more to everyone on the planet than human rights violations. The fact that you cant even buy many/any computer parts not made in china proves that no one really cares enough to do anything about it or you would be able to sustain a company making these products in another country, but no one does/can.

 

[realibrad]

Pretty much this, everyone is writing in this thread with computers and phones/tablets all made in china, all supporting this country committing these acts, yet are on here whining about human rights violations.

When very obviously cheap goods means much more to everyone on the planet than human rights violations. The fact that you cant even buy many/any computer parts not made in china proves that no one really cares enough to do anything about it or you would be able to sustain a company making these products in another country, but no one does/can.

So do you think its worse to support doing bad things, or actually doing bad things?

 

[Commodus]

Pretty much this, everyone is writing in this thread with computers and phones/tablets all made in china, all supporting this country committing these acts, yet are on here whining about human rights violations.

When very obviously cheap goods means much more to everyone on the planet than human rights violations. The fact that you cant even buy many/any computer parts not made in china proves that no one really cares enough to do anything about it or you would be able to sustain a company making these products in another country, but no one does/can.

It's not so much that no one cares as that it's not as simple as domesticating all manufacturing or insisting on buying American.

People like to think that companies are averse to higher wages and reduced working hours, but that's not really it -- it's the flexibility that makes them source work to China. Need to step up production for the latest device? You'll have 3,000 appropriately-trained people on the job within two weeks. If you can even find 3,000 people who are properly qualified in the US (many are overqualified), it'll probably take you months to bring them aboard. The US has been structured as a service economy, and it's not as simple as opening a factory and waiting for the profits and praise to roll in.

And even if that weren't an issue, many of the companies and resources you need to talk to are in the area. Sure, Foxconn could domesticate all US iPhone production, but many of the component manufacturers and the resources they harvest are still in or near China. You'd have to pay to ship parts overseas.

The uncomfortable reality is that we won't really address labor conditions for technology until there's heavy automation, and then the solution will be to eliminate the jobs, not to relocate them.

 

[Blackjack200]

Pretty much this, everyone is writing in this thread with computers and phones/tablets all made in china, all supporting this country committing these acts, yet are on here whining about human rights violations.

When very obviously cheap goods means much more to everyone on the planet than human rights violations. The fact that you cant even buy many/any computer parts not made in china proves that no one really cares enough to do anything about it or you would be able to sustain a company making these products in another country, but no one does/can.

No, it means that individually they do not have the power to change things. You think that everyone that eats a hamburger supports large scale American agriculture? Everyone that puts gas in their tank doesn't believe in global warming?

 

[Fern]

And that will happen when and why?

Demographics (I heard they're now going raise the limit for children to 3)
Debt (about 350% of it's gdp)
Environmental issues

I have no idea on the timetable.

Fern

 

[Rifter]

So do you think its worse to support doing bad things, or actually doing bad things?

Id say equal, end result is the same, bad things get done.

Thats like asking if conspiracy to commit murder is as bad as murder. At the end of the day a guy is still dead.

I mean you can make a case for the people doing the bad things being worse, but enabling them is almost as bad.

 

[Rifter]

No, it means that individually they do not have the power to change things. You think that everyone that eats a hamburger supports large scale American agriculture? Everyone that puts gas in their tank doesn't believe in global warming?

Yeah but the difference is there are options for those, there arnt really options for not buying Chinese products.

You can buy a diesel and run bio-diesel or buy a electric.

You can buy meat from a small producer.

For electronics and computers there really arnt many non Chinese options, and as mentioned above by Commodus even if there are people making these products not in china its likely most/all of the internal parts are sourced from china anyways.

 

[kage69]

These are the internal dissidents who need to be controlled before one can engage in elective war.

 

[1sikbITCH]

The faster China's government goes down the shitter, the better.

It would really illustrate your point better if you held your breath until that happens.

 

[Vic]

Id say equal, end result is the same, bad things get done.

Thats like asking if conspiracy to commit murder is as bad as murder. At the end of the day a guy is still dead.

I mean you can make a case for the people doing the bad things being worse, but enabling them is almost as bad.

Conspiracy to commit murder still requires the intent for a murder to be committed. That's why it's just as bad.
People who buy stuff at a store don't have any intent to hurt anyone, generally speaking.
So for sure, the people who commit those heinous acts are worse.

 

[realibrad]

Id say equal, end result is the same, bad things get done.

Thats like asking if conspiracy to commit murder is as bad as murder. At the end of the day a guy is still dead.

I mean you can make a case for the people doing the bad things being worse, but enabling them is almost as bad.

You are not being consistent. You say equal and then end it with an almost.

Enabling is not as bad as doing. Know that.

 

[FelixDeCat]

The Communist Han Chinese are running concentration camps at this very moment for over 1,000,000 people, threaten freedom of navigation via the man made and militarized Spratly "Islands", and steal American jobs.

Thankfully Donald Trump is trying to force the ignorant and backwards government of China to trade fairly with us, promote free navigation in the South China Sea with American naval power, and thereby bring back jobs to America.

 

[Victorian Gray]

The Communist Han Chinese are running concentration camps at this very moment for over 1,000,000 people, threaten freedom of navigation via the man made and militarized Spratly "Islands", and steal American jobs.

Thankfully Donald Trump is trying to force the ignorant and backwards government of China to trade fairly with us, promote free navigation in the South China Sea with American naval power, and thereby bring back jobs to America.

And make a buncha bucks as well.

(Not that I expect propaganda parrot to read these)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0ae8e6051328

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...trump-china-trademarks-zte-jobs-a8373441.html