China High Speed Bullet Train Struck by lightening and then rear ended by another...

Qianglong

Senior member
Jan 29, 2006
937
0
0
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-china-train-20110724,0,7852907.story

Apparently the first train was struck by lightening and then lost power and stalled on the tracks. Another train rear ended it from behind and pushed some of the carriages down the bridge.

The total death count is 16 but could be higher :(

RIP to those victims but from the images it seems the carriages took the impact quite well and could have been much worse!
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
My condolences to all of those that lost their lives or were injured.

Guess it is exceedingly rare for a train to get struck by lightning, hopefully this will lead to better safety.
 

Qianglong

Senior member
Jan 29, 2006
937
0
0
My condolences to all of those that lost their lives or were injured.

Guess it is exceedingly rare for a train to get struck by lightning, hopefully this will lead to better safety.

Yeah I was wondering why was there no automated system to warn the train behind it? Or are they following extremely closely that leaves it no time for reaction since these trains follows schedule to the minute.
 

RaistlinZ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
7,470
9
91
Imagine being in the rear cab of the train that stopped and seeing another bullet train coming straight at you. Must suck.
 

Albatross

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2001
2,344
8
81
What has lighting to do with the rear collision? Some lame excuse for shoddy engineering...
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
I was surprised that China had bullet trains (no idea why). I'm not surprised they had an accident. I am, however, surprised that so few people died.
 

OlafSicky

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2011
2,364
0
0
I was surprised that China had bullet trains (no idea why). I'm not surprised they had an accident. I am, however, surprised that so few people died.
It's called state owned media. The are just trying to reduce the damage. I wouldn't trust any of the information. Lightning striking a train, so it broke down because of an act of god. Then only 16 people dead. Possible but not likely.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,639
46,333
136
What has lighting to do with the rear collision? Some lame excuse for shoddy engineering...

Signal system should have detected the train stuck on that block or equipment failure and cut power to the line automatically.

Reason #105 that the Chinese should not be our partners for any HSR in this country.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
I was surprised that China had bullet trains (no idea why).

Yeh, they have an "indigenous technology development program." IIRC, to do business in certain fields, you form joint a venture with a state owned company, take a minority stake in it, hand over whatever IP you want to make use of to the joint venture and they manufacture and sell it. Then, that joint venture will likely sell or leak the IP to a company that you have no stake in and boom, you have a competitor that is using your own technology against you. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is how it typically works.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/chi...accusations-of-stolen-technology-ncxdc-062811
China's new Beijing to Shanghai bullet train enters service in four days' time, but the technological triumph was tarnished Tuesday by claims of stolen innovation and corruption.
...
But as the bullet train slid out of Beijing on a recent trial run, claims that it was fundamentally "Made in China" left Germany's Siemens and Japan's Kawasaki fuming about stolen technology.

I am, however, surprised that so few people died.
As noted above, the real figure is likely higher, the numbers reported (by state media) are likely lowered to save face as high speed rail is a field that their government takes pride in.

According to my girlfriend (mainland Chinese), their rail system (not just high-speed) is highly corrupt. They have major issues with scalpers buying up the tickets and reselling them at an inflated price, the scalpers tend to be in league with the employees of the rail system.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
They stole the ip of that rail system from a japanese company who they promised would be able to build all the rail in china. I forget the company but it was one of the big ones we all know.
 

Qianglong

Senior member
Jan 29, 2006
937
0
0
Planes get struck by lightening all the time and they dont just drop out of the sky with full system failure...i am thinking the whole lightening thing is just an excuse for something else.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Planes get struck by lightening all the time and they dont just drop out of the sky with full system failure...i am thinking the whole lightening thing is just an excuse for something else.


It's entirely possible that it was the proximal cause, however as you say it happens all the time without incident. This looks like little to no thought was given to safety, which ought to come as a surprise to absolutely no one.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-china-train-20110724,0,7852907.story

Apparently the first train was struck by lightening and then lost power and stalled on the tracks. Another train rear ended it from behind and pushed some of the carriages down the bridge.

The total death count is 16 but could be higher :(

RIP to those victims but from the images it seems the carriages took the impact quite well and could have been much worse!
=========================================

The newest line in that network, a Beijing-Shanghai corridor, has been beset by electrical glitches in recent weeks because of poor weather, officials said.

The safety of the national network was also called into question when the head of the railway ministry was removed in February because of a corruption scandal believed to have led to shoddy construction.

The ministry has since decreased top speeds on the system as a precautionary measure.

RIP to the victims and families.

Sure, lets bring more of that "Engineering" here. :rolleyes:
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Specific systems vary, but they all ultimately depend on the train operator when automatic systems fail. None, to my knowledge, actually cut power to the vehicle but rather signal the vehicle to stop in the absence of the proper track signal. Automatic train stop hardware is notoriously buggy & unreliable, meaning that many properties have to turn it off to run trains at all. Just the way it is. If the signal system were also knocked out by the lightning strike, then the dark signal for the trailing vehicle is always interpreted to be the same as a red signal. The cause of the accident is very likely operator error. The only way this could be a system design failure is if the Chinese weren't using a double red block system- very, very unlikely wrt a bullet train.

I work on this stuff all the time- it's my job.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
That's what happens when you trust a Chinese knock-off going 150mph with your life.
 

taserbro

Senior member
Jun 3, 2010
216
0
76
They stole the ip of that rail system from a japanese company who they promised would be able to build all the rail in china. I forget the company but it was one of the big ones we all know.

You're thinking of Kawasaki Heavy Industries?
Funny, I remember reading an article on this subject.
It wasn't just japanese companies but also the german and french, who're also basically years ahead of everyone else in that field. Also, stealing is a pretty inaccurate word here; they imported their IP legit. But what they did was make the offer to multiple foreign companies who were lured in by the juicy contract letting their own greed undercut each other right down to the worse possible business position, which is each of them being in charge of a different part so no one single company could dictate their terms.

You can read the article along with the angry /. summary (although the article went through a bot translation, the key details are pretty clear)
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/01...Property-Acquisition-Tactics-Exposed#comments
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
I work on this stuff all the time- it's my job.

Does that mean we can now argue with you and tell you that you don't know anything? :p

Seriously though, these things are flying along the track at significant speeds. I would think there would be redundant signaling systems in case of a stoppage. It's a bit difficult to believe that a train can't tell if it's moving or not and send the appropriate message.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Lightning? Another stupid excuse from those commies.

same exact thing happened to the North Korean Women's Soccer team. Next thing you know, the bullet train will test positive for steroids.
Shoddy built on the cheap is the example we want for the boondoogle HSR system here in the US? Terrible.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
I'm shocked... Usually China has the very highest safety standards and quality controls in place.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
I've read that the safest part of a train is in the middle carriage. RIP.