China apologists

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: darkxshade

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: KLin
http://forums.anandtech.com/ca...tid=52&flcache=3860530

Kthxbye

 

[WraithETC]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: darkxshade

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: KLin
http://forums.anandtech.com/ca...tid=52&flcache=3860530

Kthxbye

 

[Skunkwourk]

Originally posted by: fishjie

Originally posted by: Sawyer
LOL yeah an oppressive government is the best!

dont believe the media hype. have you ever even been to china? didnt think so.

america has pretty much OKed illegal wiretapping without need for warrants. it has also OKed illegal detention of suspected "terrorists" with no legal counsel and OKs their torture. there have already been reports of innocent people who were mistaken for terrorists who got tortured and imprisoned.

under the bush administration, the power of the executive branch has been increased while the judicial has been weakened.

so if you want to talk about oppressive governments, well guess what, the united states is not a beacon of shining light. especially considering its history.

i have, and youtube was blocked nooooooo

This kind of stuff isn't even about human rights but still worries me. Shanghai is a pretty fun city though.

 

[OCGuy]

CHUCK FINA

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: pclstyle

Originally posted by: KLin

Originally posted by: Sawyer
LOL yeah an oppressive government is the best!

Just a reminder.

http://forums.anandtech.com/ca...tid=52&flcache=3860530

Kthxbye

you could at least link it properly, fool.

1st link works. 2nd link I copied and pasted the link text. Didn't think about it abbreviating the text.

 

[hunewbie]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: fishjie

Originally posted by: Sawyer
LOL yeah an oppressive government is the best!

dont believe the media hype. have you ever even been to china? didnt think so.

america has pretty much OKed illegal wiretapping without need for warrants. it has also OKed illegal detention of suspected "terrorists" with no legal counsel and OKs their torture. there have already been reports of innocent people who were mistaken for terrorists who got tortured and imprisoned.

under the bush administration, the power of the executive branch has been increased while the judicial has been weakened.

so if you want to talk about oppressive governments, well guess what, the united states is not a beacon of shining light. especially considering its history.

That's one of the things that bothers me about the China bashing. I don't think many people here really knows what life is like in China -- they have many misconceptions. It's like what would happend if all foreigners base their opinion of what life in the US is like from Al Sharpton. Yes, there is still racism in the US but it's not like all blacks are super oppressed to this day.

And I think the US would be better received if we stopped standing on a pedestal with one hand on our hip and wagging our fingers with the other hand and lecturing China on how to behave. Because we look like idiots based on our own history. China wasn't the ont that invaded Iraq, causing many deaths and ruining that country for no good reason.

We would probably be better received if we go and say, "Look, we just want to give you some advice so you could avoid some of the mistakes we've done in the past".

:thumbsup:

did anyone read the reactions on that Fake Olympic ticketing s website that con'd ppl's money? immediately, everyone was just bashing on the Chinese for stealing ppl's money; and that they are a country full of cons...and then later found out that the site was traced to Arizona?... what a shame?

misconceptions, eh?

 

[Kadarin]

Most of the China apologists that I know happen to be Chinese. Go figure.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: fishjie

Originally posted by: Sawyer
LOL yeah an oppressive government is the best!

dont believe the media hype. have you ever even been to china? didnt think so.

america has pretty much OKed illegal wiretapping without need for warrants. it has also OKed illegal detention of suspected "terrorists" with no legal counsel and OKs their torture. there have already been reports of innocent people who were mistaken for terrorists who got tortured and imprisoned.

under the bush administration, the power of the executive branch has been increased while the judicial has been weakened.

so if you want to talk about oppressive governments, well guess what, the united states is not a beacon of shining light. especially considering its history.

That's one of the things that bothers me about the China bashing. I don't think many people here really knows what life is like in China -- they have many misconceptions. It's like what would happend if all foreigners base their opinion of what life in the US is like from Al Sharpton. Yes, there is still racism in the US but it's not like all blacks are super oppressed to this day.

And I think the US would be better received if we stopped standing on a pedestal with one hand on our hip and wagging our fingers with the other hand and lecturing China on how to behave. Because we look like idiots based on our own history. China wasn't the ont that invaded Iraq, causing many deaths and ruining that country for no good reason.

We would probably be better received if we go and say, "Look, we just want to give you some advice so you could avoid some of the mistakes we've done in the past".

China bashing is pathetic. Too many people who discuss these things on this forum are definitely not Asian and I can almost bet a good chunk of the bashers have never been to China. There are HUNDREDS of countries that have far worse problems than China, so seriously stop focusing all your hate on the country. I think a lot of people have culture issues and fail to accept other cultures or are uncultured individuals themselves.

 

[FlashG]

Originally posted by: Sawyer
Every single board I have been on where there is a topic about china and the Olympics, there are always China apologists, I do not get this. How can any sane person defend or support China?

Apologists = Posters on the Chinese dime - anti American haters - asshole debaters - misguided patriots ? students with no life.

At least we have some semblance of a freedom of speech. Even for those previously mentioned.

 

[hunewbie]

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: Sawyer
Every single board I have been on where there is a topic about china and the Olympics, there are always China apologists, I do not get this. How can any sane person defend or support China?

Apologists = Posters on the Chinese dime - anti American haters - asshole debaters - misguided patriots ? students with no life.

At least we have some semblance of a freedom of speech. Even for those previously mentioned.

Freedom of Speech --- But still, think before you speak and not be an ass about it...i dont mind the bashing of the government...just not the bashing of it's people who had done nothing wrong...

 

[SAWYER]

This thread is about the Chinese gov, do you really think the citizens choose and prefer their gov?

 

[bigdog1218]

Originally posted by: fishjie

Originally posted by: Sawyer
LOL yeah an oppressive government is the best!

dont believe the media hype. have you ever even been to china? didnt think so.

america has pretty much OKed illegal wiretapping without need for warrants. it has also OKed illegal detention of suspected "terrorists" with no legal counsel and OKs their torture. there have already been reports of innocent people who were mistaken for terrorists who got tortured and imprisoned.

under the bush administration, the power of the executive branch has been increased while the judicial has been weakened.

so if you want to talk about oppressive governments, well guess what, the united states is not a beacon of shining light. especially considering its history.

Yeah, I remember at the anti-Iraq war protest where the US tank ran over an American citizen.

Oh wait...

 

[Pepsei]

i'm all for bashing china... like the people, but hate the government.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: fishjie

Originally posted by: Sawyer
Every single board I have been on where there is a topic about china and the Olympics, there are always China apologists, I do not get this. How can any sane person defend or support China?

im chinese

sovereign china 4 lyfe

tibet is ours

deal with it

where are you posting from? I can't remember a time when China is not Sovereign. Unless you want to count the dinasties Qing and Yuen as non-chinese.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: bigdog1218

Originally posted by: fishjie

Originally posted by: Sawyer
LOL yeah an oppressive government is the best!

dont believe the media hype. have you ever even been to china? didnt think so.

america has pretty much OKed illegal wiretapping without need for warrants. it has also OKed illegal detention of suspected "terrorists" with no legal counsel and OKs their torture. there have already been reports of innocent people who were mistaken for terrorists who got tortured and imprisoned.

under the bush administration, the power of the executive branch has been increased while the judicial has been weakened.

so if you want to talk about oppressive governments, well guess what, the united states is not a beacon of shining light. especially considering its history.

Yeah, I remember at the anti-Iraq war protest where the US tank ran over an American citizen.

Oh wait...

I don't think that dude got ran over.

 

[Baked]

Dear douchebag OP, please google Iraq. kthxbye

 

[sunzt]

Here maybe this will help shed some light on some things for you. Copied from my post in P&N

Sheesh some of you guys really love to hate, especially hating China.

You know, it's ironic. After Mao, Chinese people have always been very friendly and were very intrigued by western people. They want to meet and make friends with westerners. It was a positive and exciting thing to meet an American/westerner. They would have a great interest and excitement in visiting western nations. Yet, during the past few years or so, the intense one-way biased hatred that westerners are showing towards China, the Olympics, and even the culture has pushed the Chinese people to really think negatively about westerners. It's really a shock to them that westerners hate their country so much, especially since the people have done nothing to make you hate them. It took an 8.0 quake that killed tens of thousands for (most) westerners to put politics aside, but that only lasted for a short while until all the hatred returned.

This one way attitude from the west and their intense efforts to highlight all the negative aspects, while ignoring any progress on those issues, has greatly increased the culture gap between the two culture. The Chinese people try to bridge the gap by eagerly learning English, western culture, and its history; however it seems that westerners don't want to narrow the culture gap and are pushing themselves (or China) away.

Many say that they only hate the government and not the people. That's understandable, but the government's leadership has resulted in the most massive human rights improvements in history by lifting over 400 million people out of poverty in less than 30 years! "Since 1981, the estimated share of the population living on less than US$1 per day has been slashed from 64 per cent to 16 per cent,lifting over 400 million people out of absolute poverty." source That's greater than the entire population of America. Granted it's not touching everyone equally, but in a nation of 1.3 billion you can't expect everything to be sorted out and everyone to be out of poverty so soon. Regardless, it's an incredible achievement worth tolerating the current government.

Success for China is seen as a bad thing in America even though it's the American consumers who are funding their success. Cheap products are what's keeping American inflation to a minimum during the current recession, and the downturn in 2003. There are never any reports of positive news about China. Every news piece has been tied to "Communism", human rights, Tibet, Sudan, or some other issue that most Chinese can really care less about. Anything positive about China is usually reported with great suspicion or caution. I'll tell you that those issues are not high on the list of priorities. China has much more important issues to deal with such as

1. Meeting energy demand and securing sources of energy (oil especially)
2. Adapting to the huge domestic demographic shift due to the one-child policy
3. Controlling economic growth and inflation
4. Cleaning up its environment and becoming more efficient

Tackling any one of those challenges would take a major toll on any country including the US, and it would require many years of commitment and investment to solve those problems. The good news is that the government has already made many inroads in all of those challenges.

Many Chinese people will still welcome you to China and be friendly to you. However, they now understand that you don't respect nor understand the country, the culture, or its people.

Westerners fail to realize that China cannot be fully understood unless you understand the history and background of China. Chinese people have been through thousands of years of good and bad rulers and governments, including Democracy. Having to live with the current government rules and regulations for a century is worth it when it improves the lives of Chinese people and turns a wrecked nation into one of the most powerful players in the world, especially since a century isn't that long a time compared to the rest of its history.

I'm not blind to the government's faults, but I'm not ignoring their achievements either. Do you want me to always reference Human rights, Sudan, Tibet or always refer to China as "Communist China" every time? Would that make you happy? Is that all I should know about China? Is that how I should be viewing China? Seriously....

Oh here's something that you may or may not find surprising in a *GASP* COMMUNIST!!! *GASP* (even though not really) country.

Despite Flaws, Rights in China Have Expanded

... political change, however gradual and inconsistent, has made China a significantly more open place for average people than it was a generation ago. ...

Pew Global Attitudes Project this spring and issued last month found that an astounding 86 percent of Chinese said they were content with their country?s direction, double the percentage who said the same thing in 2002. Only 23 percent of Americans polled in the survey said they were satisfied with their country?s direction.

And yes... i did just quote myself... TWICE.

 

[sunzt]

Originally posted by: Sawyer
This thread is about the Chinese gov, do you really think the citizens choose and prefer their gov?

Happy with what they've done in the past 30 years? Yes... refer to above post.

 

[FlashG]

Originally posted by: hunewbie

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: Sawyer
Every single board I have been on where there is a topic about china and the Olympics, there are always China apologists, I do not get this. How can any sane person defend or support China?

Apologists = Posters on the Chinese dime - anti American haters - asshole debaters - misguided patriots ? students with no life.

At least we have some semblance of a freedom of speech. Even for those previously mentioned.

Freedom of Speech --- But still, think before you speak and not be an ass about it...i dont mind the bashing of the government...just not the bashing of it's people who had done nothing wrong...

hunewbie, I wasn't bashing the PEOPLE but you knew that.

 

[Imdmn04]

The west will always hate on the next big rivalry.

U.S. media are always biased against the Chinese government, emphasizing reporting on the bad, and largely ignoring the good such as healthcare, transportation infrastructure, quality of life improvements, etc.

 

[BoomerD]

For all the Chinese apologists...Are you IN China? Do you LIVE there or are you of Chinese origin?

If you're not currently living IN China, (an emmigrant) why not?
IF China is this great country, why do so many people leave to come to the USA? Why do so many Chinese people do anything they can, including being smuggled into the country in sealed shipping containers, just to get OUT of China?

I'm old school, from the age of "Kill a commie for your mommie," or "Better dead than red," so I have a "built-in" dislike or possibly even hatred for anything Communist. I don't dislike or hate the Chinese people, because IMO, they're just people, the same as anyone else, trying to get through life one day at a time...but the Chinese government? Fuck them.

 

[hunewbie]

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: hunewbie

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: Sawyer
Every single board I have been on where there is a topic about china and the Olympics, there are always China apologists, I do not get this. How can any sane person defend or support China?

Apologists = Posters on the Chinese dime - anti American haters - asshole debaters - misguided patriots ? students with no life.

At least we have some semblance of a freedom of speech. Even for those previously mentioned.

Freedom of Speech --- But still, think before you speak and not be an ass about it...i dont mind the bashing of the government...just not the bashing of it's people who had done nothing wrong...

hunewbie, I wasn't bashing the PEOPLE but you knew that.

i knew that. refering to the masses...

 

[sunzt]

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: Sawyer
Every single board I have been on where there is a topic about china and the Olympics, there are always China apologists, I do not get this. How can any sane person defend or support China?

Apologists = Posters on the Chinese dime - anti American haters - asshole debaters - misguided patriots ? students with no life.

At least we have some semblance of a freedom of speech. Even for those previously mentioned.

So if you're Pro-China you must be

1) Being paid off by China gov (even though many of them that are posting in English are not in China, not related to the government, are in foreign countries, and the most outraged are ex pats).
Man i gotta get in on that deal!

2) Anti-American.
Oh man..... I guess I must hate America now...... gotta take down and burn my flag i guess.

3) Assholes.
You mean there are no American assholes? Wow! I must find the part of America you're living in. If anything Americans associate anything related to China with how much china sucks, how the people suck, how everything sucks blah blah blah without ever having any real experience in the country.... hmmm

4) Misguided
So the right direction must be to follow America, right?

5) Students with no life....
Maybe the students are the ones that are most likely to speak English?


Maybe i'm just all wrong... you, and your infinite wisdom has obviously answered the question..... perfectly. Please teach me the way to be as insightful as you.

 

[sunzt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
For all the Chinese apologists...Are you IN China? Do you LIVE there or are you of Chinese origin?

If you're not currently living IN China, (an emmigrant) why not?
IF China is this great country, why do so many people leave to come to the USA? Why do so many Chinese people do anything they can, including being smuggled into the country in sealed shipping containers, just to get OUT of China?

I'm old school, from the age of "Kill a commie for your mommie," or "Better dead than red," so I have a "built-in" dislike or possibly even hatred for anything Communist. I don't dislike or hate the Chinese people, because IMO, they're just people, the same as anyone else, trying to get through life one day at a time...but the Chinese government? Fuck them.

All 1.3 Billion people cannot make a living in China.... so some people will risk it to find opportunity. Don't forget that modern China is still a DEVELOPING country, so there are better places. Remember, most Chinese do not HATE the US, but most Americans HATE China. Many Chinese students cannot get into Chinese universities either so they go elsewhere, Australia and Europe more so than the USA these days.

Many people would love to come America because there is lots of opportunity here and LESS COMPETITION. Lots of people would like to visit, but many are doing well just in China.

You may hate the government (and yes, there's lots of room for improvement), but you can't deny that their policies have led to dramatic improvements in standards of living, and the emergence of China as a world player in only 30 years.

 

[BrownTown]

I just want to take the time that anyone who uses the word "apologist" is a fucking retard in my eyes and anything they say is immediately wrong so far as I am concerned.