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Chicago bar denies entry to black college students

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bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
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A bar is open to the public
No it isn't. Or only if the owner wishes it to be. But even then, the owner should be allowed to remove anyone he/she wishes.

This is done all the time. Go to a club in LA for example. They discriminate all the time. They may only want to allow "beautiful" people to enter. People dressed a certain way. They may only allow people who are willing to pay money to enter. Heck, I paid a cover charge to get into a bar last night. Certainly wasn't "open to the general public."

You cannot deny service to someone based on the color of their skin.
If this were public property, a government institution, a public park, I would agree. You see yourself standing up for someone's rights, but you're only supporting the opposite.
 

squirrel dog

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,562
48
91
If I owned a bar and some jackass walked in with his ass hanging out with his pants around his knees,I would ask him to leave.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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your an idiot dude......a bar is not even close to private property.......just like Kmart cannot be considered private property....duh....
Sarcasm Comrade?

It's a private business owned by a private entity not the government.

Is this any different then night clubs which refuse to allow male patrons inside even when they have a proper state issued ID but are turned away and told they need further proof of their age? Meanwhile they are allowing droves of women into their establishment. Happens all the time. When is someone going to file a sexism lawsuit?
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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Around my excellent compatriot Rapids, MN, there are several bars that were successful and were running for years until the local black kids decided to make it their new hangout. Now they are defunct and closed within 6 months of that happening. I wonder why?
Let me guess why they closed...constant fights, drug dealing, shoot outs, side shows where cars do burnouts, donuts, etc.. in the parking lot.
 
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seepy83

Platinum Member
Nov 12, 2003
2,132
1
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I wouldn't have always said this, but who gives a shit about one racist bar in Chicago? This isn't the civil rights era, or even twenty years ago, when one could legitimately say that many places discriminated against black people. There are hundreds of Chicago bars that are welcoming to blacks.
Well if that's how you feel...then who cares about one child molester that lives next door to your child's school? I mean...laws against child molestation were passed so long ago and there aren't that many child molsters around anyways. You could move to thousands of other places that don't have a child molester living next to a school if you have a problem with what he's doing. We should definitely just ignore the problem and not enforce the laws, because they don't matter unless the problem is rampant...right?!
 

Shallok

Member
Jul 12, 2005
38
0
0
Sarcasm Comrade?

It's a private business owned by a private entity not the government.

Is this any different then night clubs which refuse to allow male patrons inside even when they have a proper state issued ID but are turned away and told they need further proof of their age? Meanwhile they are allowing droves of women into their establishment. Happens all the time. When is someone going to file a sexism lawsuit?
While not the exact scenario you have outlined, lawsuits alleging gender discrimination based on Ladies Night discounts/charges have been quite common and successful at the state level. If you feel that you have been wronged by a night club, feel free to seek recourse.

The bar in question is a public accommodation, as such it is subject to specific rules. If the bar owners do not wish to comply with the rules, they should move to a place where the rules do not exist. If they wish to continue to operate their business in the Chicago, then they will need to follow city/state/federal law.
 

Shallok

Member
Jul 12, 2005
38
0
0
Caucasian is a race. Is it a "protected class?"

Shouldn't all people be protected equally?

I believe government should be blind to the color of one's skin, one's religious beliefs, one's gender, and one's sexual orientation. There should be only one "protected class," and it consists of all individuals.
That would be swell. Unfortunately, its rather unrealistic. Government can be blind once its people are. So long as our we continue to treat people differently based on skin color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc, it is in society's interest for laws to exist that prevent/punish such discrimination. This is one of the reasons that governments exists.
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
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A lot of the bars around where I am say you cannot wear certain clothes. All the clothes they list are things that black and Hispanic people commonly wear.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
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Let me guess why they closed...constant fights, drug dealing, shoot outs, side shows where cars do burnouts, donuts, etc.. in the parking lot.
I'm actually serious about the "I wonder why?"... Why would a business staying float would shut down after blacks made the place their hangout? Is it because blacks don't purchase things in the bar? Cause other racial groups to move to new locations and they spend more? They lose their liquor license due to problems? I dunno. But I'm curious.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,063
495
126
Once I was denied entry into a club in St. Paul becuase I was wearing a Tommy Hillfiger shirt. I felt so oppressed!
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
0
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You have no right to tell him what he can or cannot do.

My problem in this situation is that the bar did not equally apply it's rule to everyone. If you don't want people with baggy clothes entering, then you have to keep all people out. This country has a long and sad history of discrimination against all minority groups. In this country you no longer have the right to discriminate based on race, gender, disability, or sexual orientation. This isn't a libertarian utopia, this is a democracy. In a democracy, the majority has the right to tell someone what they can or cannot do.

Laws sometimes interfere in order to move society forward (though they certainly have also acted to hold us back). The founders stood for liberty, but they also stood for equality. They just didn't have the stones to implement true equality and liberty when the Constitution was written.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
17,777
2,876
126
That would be swell. Unfortunately, its rather unrealistic. Government can be blind once its people are. So long as our we continue to treat people differently based on skin color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc, it is in society's interest for laws to exist that prevent/punish such discrimination. This is one of the reasons that governments exists.
But how can the people be blind to others based on skin color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc, when those very people have to be treated differently by law?
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
0
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He's a scumbag who should be boycotted and/or protested, but IMO that's where your say in it ends.
One man's liberty is another man's oppression. I understand what you are saying, but history matters in these situations.
 

Shallok

Member
Jul 12, 2005
38
0
0
But how can the people be blind to others based on skin color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc, when those very people have to be treated differently by law?
Anti-discrimination laws require that people are treated the same. If you were previously discriminating against minorities, then yes, upon passage of an anti-discrimination law you would have to treat them differently. But the different treatment would be treating them like everyone else. Affirmative action is not an anti-discrimination law, quite the opposite.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
10,774
1,990
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If this were public property, a government institution, a public park, I would agree. You see yourself standing up for someone's rights, but you're only supporting the opposite.
You can not deny anyone a rental property, not sell them a house based on skin color, among other things. and those are decidedly private property.

Plus this isn't a private club where you have to pay a membership fee to enter.
 
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dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
10,774
1,990
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But how can the people be blind to others based on skin color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc, when those very people have to be treated differently by law?
They have a history of being treated unfairly by the white majority and that would never have changed if not for said laws.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,573
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Black youth in baggy pants in Chicago, probable gang banger...

White youth in baggy pants in Chicago, probable harmless wannabe joker...

I can easily see rejecting the one and admitting the other, as a doorman.

The story is a little light on facts, though. So, I'll keep to the 48 hour rule or as long as it takes.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
61
They have a history of being treated unfairly by the white majority and that would never have changed if not for said laws.
I disagree. Many minds were changed which helped bring about changes in the law. Also, many minds did not change with the new laws, and some still haven't. You can't regulate ignorance nor hatred.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
10,774
1,990
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I disagree. Many minds were changed which helped bring about changes in the law. Also, many minds did not change with the new laws, and some still haven't. You can't regulate ignorance nor hatred.

people generally wont change on their own and if the laws weren't enacted to force them, a lot of folks wouldn't have. We like our comfort zone.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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IMO, a bar is private property, and the owner should be able to choose who is and isn't allowed on his property. I choose who and who isn't allowed in my home.
For one, your example isn't even logically consistent; a home isn't generally open to the public for business.

And secondly, your standard would have upheld Plessy v. Ferguson and the separate but equal justification for segregation in private institutions. This is clearly unconstitutional. You'd think a self-described Libertarian would know what the Constitution actually says. :D
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
4
81
Not surprised this happens everywhere. I especially love the middle of nowhere bars that start using "club rules" to act cool but end up just keeping out all the black people and letting the white boys thug it out all they want.

We had a place called the Cell Block at school that had these rules. I was the third in or so and had on a pair of baggy old probably dirty khaki shorts and a led zeppelin t-shirt that I know for a fact had holes all over it, and of course a bandanna (which they did make me take off). My black buddy was 2nd to last and had on nice khaki shorts and a polo shirt. He was sent packing. We had already grabbed drinks slammed them. I walked out by the the door guy pointed out that he let me in no problem dressed like hell and he was a racist fuck, gave him the finger, and then left. Best part was there was a group of people at the door going in and they told him to fuck off too and took off.
 

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