Chevy Bolt quick review

[Kaido]

I think it'll be more like a BMW 3 series that starts in the mid $30s, but hits around $50k "well-equipped." Certainly there's more tech in the Tesla, so some configs will hit $60k+ but I think the ASP will be closer to $50k once production ramps up. Which is obvious considering the BMW 3 Series or Mercedes-Benz C-class are the vehicles directly targeted by the Model 3.

Also, the federal $7500 credit will begin to phase out for Tesla around mid-2018:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/foru...hase-out-updated-040217-after-2017-q1-results

This is great for early adopters of the 3, but most buyers will be disappointed when 2019 rolls around. (The 50% credit level is still nothing to sneeze at.)

I disagree on a couple points you've made. First, I think it's been written that GM loses money on every Chevy Bolt sold. So I don't believe they are jacking up the price due to the existence of the federal rebate. Currently, BEVs are low volume, high cost goods. We're all hoping the Model 3 changes that!

As far as financing (or leasing) a brand new car, it can both be a justifiable and affordable expense for a person and a "bad" financial decision. Those are not mutually exclusive. IMHO, you're losing 35% (or worse) of the value of the average new car in 3 years. So almost by definition, it's can't be a good or even OK financial decision. But I agree that if you can afford it and it makes you happy, so be it.

I've never leased a car, but just because the monthly payments appear low doesn't mean it's better than financing. If I understand leasing correctly, you're basically paying for the depreciation of the vehicle over the lease term, based on the leasing company's choice of residual value. They can fudge RV a bit to move cars, but in theory it should more or less reflect actual depreciation of that vehicle. If you consider that at the end of the lease, you either have to buy out the car or start a new lease, you're still getting clubbed hard by depreciation in exchange for the privilege of being the first "owner."

I'll offer a slight exception here for the rare car like a Honda Accord that is both reasonably affordable and depreciates slowly compared to all other autos.

Tesla has a Model S vs. Model 3 comparison page up now:

https://www.tesla.com/compare

One of the things they are advertising are more than 1,500 configurations for the S vs. less than 100 configurations for the 3. I've seen the $60k top-end figure floated around for the 3; that seems a little high, but going off the available options on the S:

• AWD: $5k
• Enhanced Autopilot: (EAP) $5k
• Full Self-Driving: (FSD) $3k
• Premium Sound: $2.5k
• Subzero Weather Package: $1k
• Special Paint: $1.5k
• Sunroof: $2k
• Jumbo Wheels: $4.5k

That's $24.5k in options, which would bring the price of the 3 up from $35k to $59.5k. However, I don't think Tesla is going to charge $4,500 for giant rims on the 3. I also suspect EAP/FSD will be cheaper...although if it's going to have the same processor & sensor suite as the X/S do, then it would be kind of a slap in the face to existing owners to drop it from $8k combined to a lower price. But a figure like $4k for FSD would make a lot more sense than $8k on a $35,000 car, so I'm interested to see what the pricing structure will be like. We should find out here in a month or two!

Sure, GM says they lose money on every car, but I've worked in production before...they are still making a profit. It's the same trick companies use to post losses year after year & still stay afloat. It's all public marketing BS, haha. I do agree that you get clubbed for being the first owner of a vehicle...it's definitely not the cheapest solution to owning a car, if budget is your sole metric. It's all a shell game to move the money around over time so that the dealer makes a profit...leasing, buying new, buying CPO, etc. Cars are pretty much a losing situation no matter which way you slice it

 

[Thump553]

So:

1. Truecar lists the average selling price of the LT as $34,923.
2. The one-time Federal tax rebate is $7,500 at the end of the year.
3. I just found out my state has a $3,000 rebate available, which specifically lists the Bolt as applicable:

http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2684&q=561422&deepNav_GID=2183

So $34,923 - $3,000 = $31,923. Roughly $32k (plus 6.35% sales tax, yippie! and any required dealer fees that you can't weasel out of). Then $7,500 at the end of the year off your taxes. Hmm...that's getting more reasonable...

That also makes the Prius Prime cheaper:

https://www.toyota.com/priusprime/calculator/

Truecar says the Prime goes for just above $25k for the (reasonably loaded) base model. Minus $750 rebate plus $4,500 tax incentive...DANG!

Thank you very much for this review, I've wanted to know more about the Bolt since reading the Motor Trend car of the year article recently in a waiting room.

Oilfieldtrash raises an excellent point that shouldn't be forgotten-economic reality should be considered along with dreams. If you buy your dream car but burden yourself down too much, that dream will become more of a nightmare.

Personally, I use my car in my business, drive 30k+ miles a year, pay all my expenses myself. My criteria are absolute reliability coupled with lowest possible overall. Personally I've had enough negative experience with flashy options later becoming financial nightmares to not be lured in by them anymore.

My current vehicle is a nine year old Prius (bought new) with over 330k miles on it. Still performs flawlessly but I really should think of replacing it within the next year or two. I never really understood the rationale behind the price option for the Prius Prime, but that CT rebate may make me pull the trigger on it.

 

[Kaido]

Thank you very much for this review, I've wanted to know more about the Bolt since reading the Motor Trend car of the year article recently in a waiting room.

Oilfieldtrash raises an excellent point that shouldn't be forgotten-economic reality should be considered along with dreams. If you buy your dream car but burden yourself down too much, that dream will become more of a nightmare.

Personally, I use my car in my business, drive 30k+ miles a year, pay all my expenses myself. My criteria are absolute reliability coupled with lowest possible overall. Personally I've had enough negative experience with flashy options later becoming financial nightmares to not be lured in by them anymore.

My current vehicle is a nine year old Prius (bought new) with over 330k miles on it. Still performs flawlessly but I really should think of replacing it within the next year or two. I never really understood the rationale behind the price option for the Prius Prime, but that CT rebate may make me pull the trigger on it.

You're welcome! I think the Bolt EV is a pretty awesome car...seems like it would just last forever. No real compromises either, if you can live within the daily range...it's zippy, it can pass on the highway, it can fit four adults no problem, everything works great.

I do think the Prius Prime is the best deal overall right now. The battery doesn't make much sense (11 miles?), but with an overall MPG of more than 50 & a low price after Federal & State tax incentives & rebates...not too shabby! If you're leasing, the Volt hybrid has some pretty competitive deals, but if you drive a lot, that's not going to work for you.

 

[NutBucket]

But does anyone really know how the battery will perform in the long run? That's still the biggest unknown.

 

[herm0016]

actually its not. The battery is similar to the Volts, and there are 2012 Volts that have gone well over 100k electric miles with no range loss. the highest mileage one is around 380k miles.

 

[Kaido]

actually its not. The battery is similar to the Volts, and there are 2012 Volts that have gone well over 100k electric miles with no range loss. the highest mileage one is around 380k miles.

Yeah, so far, the Volt hybrid batteries are showing super low degredation. My friends with Honda Fit EV's also have hardly any degradation & I think they are on year 4 of the lease (extended). Honda may push it out to 5 years, curious to see if it's still a solid ~82 miles in warm weather.

 

[slag]

What does this mean? " Supercharging numbers have been posted as high as 444mph."

444 miles per hour? huh? I don't understand how charging times equate to speed.

Should that read 444 miles per hour of charge? If so, that's insane.

 

[Viper GTS]

What does this mean? " Supercharging numbers have been posted as high as 444mph."

444 miles per hour? huh? I don't understand how charging times equate to speed.

Should that read 444 miles per hour of charge? If so, that's insane.

Yes that's correct. Miles of range delivered per hour.

And yes, the DC charging is insane. They will deactivate it for your car if you over-use it to prevent battery damage but if you really need it you can charge at an absurd rate.

Viper GTS

 

[Kaido]

What does this mean? " Supercharging numbers have been posted as high as 444mph."

444 miles per hour? huh? I don't understand how charging times equate to speed.

Should that read 444 miles per hour of charge? If so, that's insane.

Yeah, as Viper said, miles of range delivered per hour. Now, EV car batteries have a bit of a curve when charging up, especially in Tesla's case, as you can get around 100 miles of charging in 30 minutes or so (note that the standard 80-mile EV's take like 3 hours to fill up 100%). That "up to 444 MPH" also only applies if no one is using the charger next to you (because it splits the power) & if you're using one of the newer 120kW chargers. But it's still pretty quick...an hour and 15 minutes to a full charge (200 to 300+ miles depending on what battery you get), which is a lot faster than the 3+ hours for less than a third of the range in other EV's. Of course, now the Volt is doing 238 miles & there are DC fast-charging options available, which are improving the technology. But for now, Tesla has a Good Thing going for them.

 

[WhiteNoise]

The Bolt is still a pretty ugly car. I'm all for EV but eek...I could not drive that.

 

[NutBucket]

Ugly compared to a Leaf?

 

[WhiteNoise]

Just ugly.

 

[Kaido]

The Bolt is still a pretty ugly car. I'm all for EV but eek...I could not drive that.

It's not photogenic, but in gray, it actually looks pretty nice IRL.

 

[MuchTooSexy]

so going back the pricing.... i've been shopping for electric cars (not just the bolt). it seems that there is still much confusion among dealers regarding leasing electric cars and the $7500 federal tax credit. i have seen Bolt LTs advertised at $199 a month for 36 months with about $3000 down. to get a lease down that low in price almost seems to require the $7500. but some dealers that i have spoken to have said that isn't possible.

does anyone have information on this?

 

[WackyDan]

First... I have a Model 3 Reservation.
Second... I wouldn't buy a Bolt because of my experience with the current GM product sitting in my driveway.

Those things aside, thank you for putting together an informative review on the Bolt. Aside from it being a GM product, I can appreciate that one of the majors is offering a decent EV with decent range versus that of say... Nissan.

As for the Model 3... You won't be able to get AWD for a while. They have already stated that the initial run starting in July will be limited in options to just a handful of colors and wheels. I'm also curious as to when they start folding in options as their manufacturing progresses and what those option costs will be. My reservation based on best guess in somewhere in the 120k to 220k range as I reserved during the webcast day of unveiling so I'll likely have a full complement of options to choose from by time they contact me on build date and financing.

Also, my reservation # is high enough that we should be able to test drive a model 3 at our local Tesla store before committing to the reservation. That is key. I won't take delivery of a 3 before we can drive one, and I'm ok with getting in the back of the line and waiting if that be the case.
I'm not a Tesla Fan Boy, but I do like what they are doing with EVs and do think they are the best option for our household. If we don't get a 3 we might look at a Prius hybrid, but realistically we would probably just buy a new or used ICE car of our liking. We aren't married to getting an EV, though it would fit our usage model for her car nicely.

As for new car costs.... We keep our cars a long time. 10-15 years. So that new cost and depreciation is spread out for us. I've seen some great deals on two or three year old cars with low mileage and they say we are entering into a used car buyers market so I'm not opposed to ditching the idea of the EV and buying a quality low mileage used car either... For her.

On the flip side of the new vs used debate and cost. I bought my F-150 Brand new in early 2012 as it only cost me $4k more than a 2 or 3 year old truck (retail). That made far more $$$ sense to me. Looking up the KBB value, my truck today is worth almost $30k trade and over $31k Private sale. It is a 2012 Fx2 Crew with 30k miles on it. In this specific case, buying a truck new worked out. I only paid $36k out the door on it. I can sell it today for 30k private and go out and buy a new truck if I needed/wanted to.

 

[Herr Kutz]

First... I have a Model 3 Reservation.
Second... I wouldn't buy a Bolt because of my experience with the current GM product sitting in my driveway.

Those things aside, thank you for putting together an informative review on the Bolt. Aside from it being a GM product, I can appreciate that one of the majors is offering a decent EV with decent range versus that of say... Nissan.

As for the Model 3... You won't be able to get AWD for a while. They have already stated that the initial run starting in July will be limited in options to just a handful of colors and wheels. I'm also curious as to when they start folding in options as their manufacturing progresses and what those option costs will be. My reservation based on best guess in somewhere in the 120k to 220k range as I reserved during the webcast day of unveiling so I'll likely have a full complement of options to choose from by time they contact me on build date and financing.

Also, my reservation # is high enough that we should be able to test drive a model 3 at our local Tesla store before committing to the reservation. That is key. I won't take delivery of a 3 before we can drive one, and I'm ok with getting in the back of the line and waiting if that be the case.
I'm not a Tesla Fan Boy, but I do like what they are doing with EVs and do think they are the best option for our household. If we don't get a 3 we might look at a Prius hybrid, but realistically we would probably just buy a new or used ICE car of our liking. We aren't married to getting an EV, though it would fit our usage model for her car nicely.

As for new car costs.... We keep our cars a long time. 10-15 years. So that new cost and depreciation is spread out for us. I've seen some great deals on two or three year old cars with low mileage and they say we are entering into a used car buyers market so I'm not opposed to ditching the idea of the EV and buying a quality low mileage used car either... For her.

On the flip side of the new vs used debate and cost. I bought my F-150 Brand new in early 2012 as it only cost me $4k more than a 2 or 3 year old truck (retail). That made far more $$$ sense to me. Looking up the KBB value, my truck today is worth almost $30k trade and over $31k Private sale. It is a 2012 Fx2 Crew with 30k miles on it. In this specific case, buying a truck new worked out. I only paid $36k out the door on it. I can sell it today for 30k private and go out and buy a new truck if I needed/wanted to.

What trim level do you have? I just did a nationwide search on Cargurus for 2012 F150, Supercrew, 2k to 32k miles and there are plenty available in the low to mid 20k's with no accidents reported. And that's advertised price. Are you in canadia or something?

 

[WackyDan]

What trim level do you have? I just did a nationwide search on Cargurus for 2012 F150, Supercrew, 2k to 32k miles and there are plenty available in the low to mid 20k's with no accidents reported. And that's advertised price. Are you in canadia or something?

I have the FX-2 with everything but the sun roof and nav.... There is a big price difference when you contrast XLT trims versus the FX-2 and up.

 

[Brovane]

so going back the pricing.... i've been shopping for electric cars (not just the bolt). it seems that there is still much confusion among dealers regarding leasing electric cars and the $7500 federal tax credit. i have seen Bolt LTs advertised at $199 a month for 36 months with about $3000 down. to get a lease down that low in price almost seems to require the $7500. but some dealers that i have spoken to have said that isn't possible.

does anyone have information on this?

If you are leasing the vehicle, the tax credit goes to the manufacturer that's offering the lease, not you. The carmaker will likely factor the credit into the cost of the lease to lower your monthly payment, but it isn't mandatory.


https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-ins-and-outs-of-electric-vehicle-tax-credits.html

 

[Kaido]

As for the Model 3... You won't be able to get AWD for a while. They have already stated that the initial run starting in July will be limited in options to just a handful of colors and wheels. I'm also curious as to when they start folding in options as their manufacturing progresses and what those option costs will be. My reservation based on best guess in somewhere in the 120k to 220k range as I reserved during the webcast day of unveiling so I'll likely have a full complement of options to choose from by time they contact me on build date and financing.

Yeah, the new main features I want in my next ride are AWD & TACC. My current vehicle has AWD (yay, for winters) but no TACC, and my now variable daily commute is pretty much entirely highway, so that would killer (Autopilot would be even better!). I really liked the Bolt IRL, but with no AWD or TACC, it's a bit of a hard sell for me, especially given that the monthly price realllllly doesn't save you any money by dumping an ICE vehicle.

I'm very interested in the upcoming Model Y...it looks like an electric version of my Jeep Renegade, which is a form factor that I love. Sit up instead of sloped, a bit more storage room, etc.

 

[bigi]

I dig it. I'd consider it along with i3 and new Leaf but still have 2 years to pay off my CX5.

This is good actually, as in 3 years we'll have much more to choose from in terms of EV and pricing.

 

[K1052]

I dig it. I'd consider it along with i3 and new Leaf but still have 2 years to pay off my CX5.

This is good actually, as in 3 years we'll have much more to choose from in terms of EV and pricing.

Used i3's with the larger 33 kWh battery packs should be attractively priced by the time you need a car. CPO 2014 and 2015s even with the REX are going in the low 20s already...often with absurdly low miles.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Drove my friend's bolt today. Around 30 miles and lots of varying conditions.

Quick thoughts - very very quiet inside. Like the most peaceful driving experience I've had. pretty awesome

It's fast. I didn't press the gas hard cause I was thinking I'd have all day to drive it (I was wrong) but it just climbs up at freeway speeds silently and with so little effort. Then it's so quiet you are just sort of there.

Handling would probably be rather good with some sticky tires. The chassis doesn't roll much at all. The stock tires make squeeling sounds easily but I didn't test its limits. I thought my friend would let me borrow it and ended up riding with me for those 30 so I was kind of respectful. At first.

Build quality, comfort and gauges etc are all really good. I think it feels like a high tech car and well built. Not an econobox.

The shifter in and out of gear is a little odd. The regen is great

If it had adaptive cruise I'd buy one.

 

[Kaido]

If it had adaptive cruise I'd buy one.

Yeah, that was one of the big dealbreakers for me. I do a lot of highway driving, currently averaging nearly 2 hours a day, and adaptive is just amazing.

Very excited for the Tesla 3 announcement in a few minutes tho!