Chevrolet Volt Integration Vehicle Assembly has begun

[evident]

this thread is full of fail from both domestic and import fanboiz

 

[Pulsar]

Originally posted by: evident
this thread is full of fail from both domestic and import fanboiz

Holy crap, you're not kidding.

brblx proves his own theory:

l right, i have no idea about anything, i think cars come from the stork.

by trying to violate some of the most basic tenants of physics by adding a windmill to a car.....

Then thescreensavers shows up. Not only does he fully admit he has no idea why this car is special:

But the Volt is 100% electric with the gas engine working as a generator. This is nothing new or ground breaking. I don't see whats so special about this car at all.

He follows it up with this load of bollocks:

Plus its another GM product which will probably have tons of headaches.

Which can be disproven in about 2 seconds with a web search where you'll find Buick tops Lexus in quality....

Then, of course, you've got the perennial loser Louisssssss, talking his normal BS:

-its NOT going to drive well for the price (all of what the car is about)

Because he's driven it? NOT.

Proof? -fuel economy isn't going to be AMAZING, definitely not worth the price premium.

Um... under 40 miles, the mileage is... infinity? Clearly, even after all his pontification and hot air, the blowhard still doesn't get the point of the vehicle...

-corner would have been cut in production due to GM's budget cuts everywhere and having to allocate R&D funds elsewhere.

Proving even further he has no clue. Hey, douchebag, Toyota lost 7 billion - I'm sure they're gonna completely suck all of a sudden, right?

-service will be a bitch since you will ONLY be able to bring it to the GM dealer which will rape you a new hole when something goes wrong when you're out of warranty. or if warranty will be around for that matter. service will also suck since those "well trained" GM technicians dont have any experience fixing problems with the volt

Really? How is that different on any of the Hybrids?

-predicted MPG is an estimated 50mpg. release date is november 2010 as a 2011 model. u think 50mpg is going to be hot shit in 2011????? the plain jane civic gets about 35-40 and has been since the 2000's

Yeah? And the plain-jane Yugo could do 60 mpg. A 50 mpg car that gets infinite mileage under 40 miles a trip though? Um... nope.

i'd rate the volt (with all current information) a 5/10. we dont care how they get the fuel efficiency... we just care about the end results and a $40k NON LUXURY car w/ 50mpg is nothing to brag about.

I'd rate YOU a 1/10. You're a blowhard with no redeeming value. All you see is the manufacturer's tag, and your mind is made up. You seem incapable of making any thoughtful decisions, and add absolutely nothing to a conversation.

The fact that the volt's motor is not integrated into the drivetrain means that you can use ANY motor. Diesel, Hydrogen, etc.. The fact that it acts as an electrical generator means that when it runs, it runs at peak efficiency ALL the time. This is much different than a hybrid, which needs a transmission to transfer motor power - so that the motor has to run through a band of RPM's, none of which may be it's optimum.

So GM has an infinitely expandable platform just waiting for all these 'future' developments of green energy. At the same time, you can get infinite gas mileage if you drive under 40 miles a day. In addition, as some people noted once they got their math right, it puts out less polution that does a prius or comparable hybrid.

I wonder why so many people are so invested in making sure American companies with good products fail.

No need for the "douchebag" comment. Places like P&N have more leeway because of more polarizing subject matter that tends to be emotionally-charged but that's not the case here so things are a little more tied down.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Garage Moderator

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Pulsar

Holy crap, you're not kidding.

...


The fact that the volt's motor is not integrated into the drivetrain means that you can use ANY motor. Diesel, Hydrogen, etc.. The fact that it acts as an electrical generator means that when it runs, it runs at peak efficiency ALL the time. This is much different than a hybrid, which needs a transmission to transfer motor power - so that the motor has to run through a band of RPM's, none of which may be it's optimum.

So GM has an infinitely expandable platform just waiting for all these 'future' developments of green energy. At the same time, you can get infinite gas mileage if you drive under 40 miles a day. In addition, as some people noted once they got their math right, it puts out less polution that does a prius or comparable hybrid.

I wonder why so many people are so invested in making sure American companies with good products fail.

Well said. It amazes me how much people are just dying to make this vehicle out to be a failed attempt before GM even launches it.

 

[LTC8K6]

Plugging in a current hybrid isn't the same as plugging in a Volt. A Volt will recharge the battery so that the gas engine won't have to be used. The electric motor on a Prius is powered by a separate generator that only powers the wheels at low speeds (not sure if Toyota has it assist at higher speeds).

Technically, you could never use any gas when driving a Volt. You're still using gas on a Prius.

It has nothing to do with how the Volt works, actually, which I am quite familiar with.

It has to do with increasing the economy of the hybrids. This plug in Prius conversion would allow most people to do their daily commute on the battery alone. This is aftermarket of course, but the factory plug in hybrids can't be too far away.

http://www.edrivesystems.com/

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

Plugging in a current hybrid isn't the same as plugging in a Volt. A Volt will recharge the battery so that the gas engine won't have to be used. The electric motor on a Prius is powered by a separate generator that only powers the wheels at low speeds (not sure if Toyota has it assist at higher speeds).

Technically, you could never use any gas when driving a Volt. You're still using gas on a Prius.

It has nothing to do with how the Volt works, actually, which I am quite familiar with.

It has to do with increasing the economy of the hybrids. This plug in Prius conversion would allow most people to do their daily commute on the battery alone. This is aftermarket of course, but the factory plug in hybrids can't be too far away.

http://www.edrivesystems.com/

No it wouldn't. That's a battery upgrade that allows increased use of the electric motor, but would still use the gas engine to power the car at times. It would be the case in any parallel hybrid (Prius, Insight, Fusion etc). The only way it would use only electricity is if you stay under 34mph. A regular Prius is either the same number or slightly lower before the gas engine begins to power the wheels. The electric motor will be the only thing that will ever moves the car in the Volt.

And for the record, the Volt will be $40,000 with a $7,500 credit, so it will ultimately cost 32,500 (not sure if GM has said how well equipped it will be). The base 2010 Prius, which Toyota hasn't given any info on what it includes, starts at $21,000 (that's actually cheaper than the previous one, which I guess Toyota had an "oh shit" when Honda announced the price on the Insight). The Prius receives a $3,150 credit. That Edrive system costs $12,000. With a base Prius and that system, it will cost $29,850.

 

[Pulsar]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

Plugging in a current hybrid isn't the same as plugging in a Volt. A Volt will recharge the battery so that the gas engine won't have to be used. The electric motor on a Prius is powered by a separate generator that only powers the wheels at low speeds (not sure if Toyota has it assist at higher speeds).

Technically, you could never use any gas when driving a Volt. You're still using gas on a Prius.

It has nothing to do with how the Volt works, actually, which I am quite familiar with.

It has to do with increasing the economy of the hybrids. This plug in Prius conversion would allow most people to do their daily commute on the battery alone. This is aftermarket of course, but the factory plug in hybrids can't be too far away.

http://www.edrivesystems.com/

No it wouldn't. That's a battery upgrade that allows increased use of the electric motor, but would still use the gas engine to power the car at times. It would be the case in any parallel hybrid (Prius, Insight, Fusion etc). The only way it would use only electricity is if you stay under 34mph. A regular Prius is either the same number or slightly lower before the gas engine begins to power the wheels. The electric motor will be the only thing that will ever moves the car in the Volt.

And for the record, the Volt will be $40,000 with a $7,500 credit, so it will ultimately cost 32,500 (not sure if GM has said how well equipped it will be). The base 2010 Prius, which Toyota hasn't given any info on what it includes, starts at $21,000 (that's actually cheaper than the previous one, which I guess Toyota had an "oh shit" when Honda announced the price on the Insight). The Prius receives a $3,150 credit. That Edrive system costs $12,000. With a base Prius and that system, it will cost $29,850.

Yes, it's cheaper than the previous one. We had a comparitive test between the new and old one here at our proving grounds, and I've got news for you.

Toyota completely ripped the content out of the interior. It's a cheap piece of crap. The 'new' Prius compared to the last one is trash.

 

[LTC8K6]

No it wouldn't. That's a battery upgrade that allows increased use of the electric motor, but would still use the gas engine to power the car at times.

It wouldn't what?

I'm aware of what the upgrade is.

Plug in hybrids are coming and they will be strong competition for the Volt.

The Volt will also use the gas engine quite a bit since 40 miles is almost certainly optimistic for most drivers. For many folks it's a long drive to the grocery store.

Me, I drive about 10 miles a day, so it matters little what I drive or how much fuel it burns. It's not costing me much to do my daily driving even at $4 a gallon for gasoline.

The hybrids have tax credits too...but let's not pretend they don't cost that much because of a subsidy. We are all paying for these subsidies.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/

Looks like everything anyone would want to know.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

No it wouldn't. That's a battery upgrade that allows increased use of the electric motor, but would still use the gas engine to power the car at times.

It wouldn't what?

I'm aware of what the upgrade is.

Plug in hybrids are coming and they will be strong competition for the Volt.

The Volt will also use the gas engine quite a bit since 40 miles is almost certainly optimistic for most drivers. For many folks it's a long drive to the grocery store.

Me, I drive about 10 miles a day, so it matters little what I drive or how much fuel it burns. It's not costing me much to do my daily driving even at $4 a gallon for gasoline.

The hybrids have tax credits too...but let's not pretend they don't cost that much because of a subsidy. We are all paying for these subsidies.

uh, something like 80% of all americans drive less than 40 miles a day...

 

[brblx]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: brblx
my biggest wonder was why they didn't go with a diesel generator. so far VW has been the only one with balls enough to basically say that americans don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to a modern diesel (i.e. 'it's too dirty,' 'it's too noisy'). all they'd need is basically a big truck APU.

working for volvo, it pained me to see the plethora of efficient engines available in europe, and all they give us is turbo 5 and 6 cylinder gas engines.

and i agree that shifting the load off on the power grid is not really helping anything. if they want to do something that's not just a marketing ploy, why not cover the top of the car with solar panels or capture energy from a wind turbine at highway speeds (i've been wondering about the feasability of that for a long time- surely with the right design you could make a good bit more energy than what is lost in drag). this is my main problem- no one at GM thinks, they just do what they think the market wants. and fail, typically.

mmm...after thinking some more, wind turbine would be a perpetual motion machine, wouldn't it? this is why i'm not an engineer. but still, come up with SOMETHING new. or we can just hope we've got enough cheap oil to get us to the point where fuel cells are cost feasible.

1) GM already has an established small engine that meets US specs can be tuned specifically for application in the Volt. no need to spend time and money needlessly complicating the project by developing a new engine (or modifying a current one) solely for 1 model.

2) europe has different emissions standards than US

3) wind energy is not perpetual motion. work is done by expanding the gas passing by the turbine blades (pressure is the driving force for work(.

4) as far as electricity goes, there's no way to bridge the gap between completely "clean" and what we have now unless people figure out that nuclear is an absolute necessity.

5) come up with something new? that requires something called money. and lots of it. the typical engineer problem comes down to three contradictions:

price
performance
weight

pick any two.

the volt is new and the only series hybrid, and so it has performance and weight on its side. the downside? its $40k pricetag, obviously, but even that is excellent for a mass-production vehicle.

new cars require billions of dollars and millions of man-hours. but maybe you can bring us something new by laying off the hookers and blow and generously donating your superior intellect for a few seconds?

1 - i'm sure there are tons of engines they could have gone with, including modifying many existing designs that might not neccessarily fit the bill as-is. GM has developed many new engines over the years, and i don't think it would be that absurb to devote time on a new one for this 'revolutionary' car.

2 - europe's emissions standards aren't the reason diesels are more predominant there. it's public image. there are plenty of diesels in this country that run as clean or cleaner than comparable gas engines. to try and build the 'car of the future' and automatically rule out a type of engine that is 20-30% more thermally efficient is just asinine, especially when you also consider that people are coming up with reasonable ways to obtain biodiesel (algae) that aren't as flat-out ridiculous as those used to get ethanol (corn).

3 - propelling the car to create the wind and then using the wind to do work would be type 1 PMM afaik. the only possible gain in energy would be when gravity is assisting the car. i'm not sure why it took me a bit to realize that this breaks the laws of physics. as many others so kindly pointed out.

4/5 - my point is just that the only thing GM is concerned with is popular opinion. and popular opinion is stupid- they want people to forget about the gas engine, and just plug their car into the little magic recepticle that gives it 'free' juice.

i'll keep my hookers and blow, you'll have to find some other drug-soaked brain to do your dirty work. ;P

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/

Looks like everything anyone would want to know.

Change that to a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid and I'll agree.

Heck if Ford made a plug-in version of a Fusion Hybrid, I'd be scared if I was GM.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Pulsar

Then, of course, you've got the perennial loser Louisssssss, talking his normal BS:

-its NOT going to drive well for the price (all of what the car is about)

Because he's driven it? NOT.

Proof? -fuel economy isn't going to be AMAZING, definitely not worth the price premium.

Um... under 40 miles, the mileage is... infinity? Clearly, even after all his pontification and hot air, the blowhard still doesn't get the point of the vehicle...

-corner would have been cut in production due to GM's budget cuts everywhere and having to allocate R&D funds elsewhere.

Proving even further he has no clue. Hey, douchebag, Toyota lost 7 billion - I'm sure they're gonna completely suck all of a sudden, right?

-service will be a bitch since you will ONLY be able to bring it to the GM dealer which will rape you a new hole when something goes wrong when you're out of warranty. or if warranty will be around for that matter. service will also suck since those "well trained" GM technicians dont have any experience fixing problems with the volt

Really? How is that different on any of the Hybrids?

-predicted MPG is an estimated 50mpg. release date is november 2010 as a 2011 model. u think 50mpg is going to be hot shit in 2011????? the plain jane civic gets about 35-40 and has been since the 2000's

Yeah? And the plain-jane Yugo could do 60 mpg. A 50 mpg car that gets infinite mileage under 40 miles a trip though? Um... nope.

i'd rate the volt (with all current information) a 5/10. we dont care how they get the fuel efficiency... we just care about the end results and a $40k NON LUXURY car w/ 50mpg is nothing to brag about.

I'd rate YOU a 1/10. You're a blowhard with no redeeming value. All you see is the manufacturer's tag, and your mind is made up. You seem incapable of making any thoughtful decisions, and add absolutely nothing to a conversation.

The fact that the volt's motor is not integrated into the drivetrain means that you can use ANY motor. Diesel, Hydrogen, etc.. The fact that it acts as an electrical generator means that when it runs, it runs at peak efficiency ALL the time. This is much different than a hybrid, which needs a transmission to transfer motor power - so that the motor has to run through a band of RPM's, none of which may be it's optimum.

So GM has an infinitely expandable platform just waiting for all these 'future' developments of green energy. At the same time, you can get infinite gas mileage if you drive under 40 miles a day. In addition, as some people noted once they got their math right, it puts out less polution that does a prius or comparable hybrid.

I wonder why so many people are so invested in making sure American companies with good products fail.

yes, i can predict how it will drive compared to its price competitors. @ $40,000 it won't drive like a BMW 3, or even the luxury of a loaded Accord @ $30k.

40 miles before "charging" the car? after 40 miles it gets = or worse mpg than the prius. is this worth the "premium" of $15-20k? how much gas can $20,000 buy you @ $3/gallon?

lol i made you oh so mad that you're giving me a 1/10? LOLfunnyboy. adding to the conversation doesn't mean "GMGMGMGM BUY AMERICAN" i've added enough to this thread to make YOU interested. i'm happy now. i love seeing people like you mad. btw i'd rate you a 2/10.

i'm not invested in watching american car companies fail. if they really honestly made good cars they'd not go bankrupt LOL. see BMW makes good cars, they're not going bankrupt. Hyundai makes good cars they're not going bankrupt. GM and chrysler? they went bankrupt. Why? because their cars are not so good. again, its not watching american cars fail, its a survival of the fittest market. and if GM isn't fit to survive then they should die. why would you want a weak company?

"the only reason to buying this car would be to want new technology." what if Nvidia came out with a new technology that was so "out of this world" but it only played the games better than current gen video cards by 1% would people buy it? no. us as the end consumer dont care HOW it gets good mpg, we just care that it does. we dont care if it uses a zillion LED's to light up the road, we just care that the roads are lit. get the point?

GM didn't really want to release this car, nor make it at this point. they were forced to, and u know how things get done when something is done by force, poor quality. remember when your mother made you read your books in 3rd grade? did u actually read them?

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
GM didn't really want to release this car, nor make it at this point. they were forced to, and u know how things get done when something is done by force, poor quality. remember when your mother made you read your books in 3rd grade? did u actually read them?

How exactly was GM forced to build the volt? They made the decision back in 2007 to go forward with the design of it, long before this whole crisis.

 

[CupCak3]

*shakes head*

when will people learn to stop feeding the trolls.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: CupCak3
*shakes head*

when will people learn to stop feeding the trolls.

Who doesn't enjoy troll baiting once and a while?

 

[brblx]

he just thinks people who don't buy american cars are 'trolls.'

some people are betting on this car being good. others are confident it will be another GM half-assing. i don't see why one group is legit discussion and the other is trolling. we'll see when the car is out, until then feel free to speculate as optimistically as you want.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: brblx
he just thinks people who don't buy american cars are 'trolls.'

some people are betting on this car being good. others are confident it will be another GM half-assing. i don't see why one group is legit discussion and the other is trolling. we'll see when the car is out, until then feel free to speculate as optimistically as you want.

I have no problem with people arguing points that are logical. I do have problems with people who say things that are completely their own biased speculation. People that can't think rationally get on my nerves.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: brblx
he just thinks people who don't buy american cars are 'trolls.'

some people are betting on this car being good. others are confident it will be another GM half-assing. i don't see why one group is legit discussion and the other is trolling. we'll see when the car is out, until then feel free to speculate as optimistically as you want.

i agree. everything here is speculation until the car is released, and the pure greatness of this car will be told by its sales by the thousands/day.
i see this as a $40k car that gets 50mpg, no luxury, no sportiness, no "cool" technology (think Infinity EX/FX), no easy service, no cheap parts, no reliability data, etc get my point?
$5 says it'll be far more hype and more failure.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: brblx
he just thinks people who don't buy american cars are 'trolls.'

some people are betting on this car being good. others are confident it will be another GM half-assing. i don't see why one group is legit discussion and the other is trolling. we'll see when the car is out, until then feel free to speculate as optimistically as you want.

i agree. everything here is speculation until the car is released, and the pure greatness of this car will be told by its sales by the thousands/day.
i see this as a $40k car that gets 50mpg, no luxury, no sportiness, no "cool" technology (think Infinity EX/FX), no easy service, no cheap parts, no reliability data, etc get my point?
$5 says it'll be far more hype and more failure.

that's true for *ANY* new vehicle output by *ANY* manufacturer.

someone who is looking to buy a prius/insight is not going to cross-shop with an MS3, Cobalt SS, VW GTI. clearly, you fail at understanding something we call a "market"

unless you have sat in and driven the volt, you have no ability to comment on any characteristics of it whatsoever with any shred of credibility (just like the rest of us)

as far as i can tell - this looks pretty good

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: brblx
he just thinks people who don't buy american cars are 'trolls.'

some people are betting on this car being good. others are confident it will be another GM half-assing. i don't see why one group is legit discussion and the other is trolling. we'll see when the car is out, until then feel free to speculate as optimistically as you want.

i agree. everything here is speculation until the car is released, and the pure greatness of this car will be told by its sales by the thousands/day.
i see this as a $40k car that gets 50mpg, no luxury, no sportiness, no "cool" technology (think Infinity EX/FX), no easy service, no cheap parts, no reliability data, etc get my point?
$5 says it'll be far more hype and more failure.

that's true for *ANY* new vehicle output by *ANY* manufacturer.

someone who is looking to buy a prius/insight is not going to cross-shop with an MS3, Cobalt SS, VW GTI. clearly, you fail at understanding something we call a "market"

unless you have sat in and driven the volt, you have no ability to comment on any characteristics of it whatsoever with any shred of credibility (just like the rest of us)

as far as i can tell - this looks pretty good

Wrong badge. Am I right LOUISSSSSSSSSSSSSS?

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: brblx
he just thinks people who don't buy american cars are 'trolls.'

some people are betting on this car being good. others are confident it will be another GM half-assing. i don't see why one group is legit discussion and the other is trolling. we'll see when the car is out, until then feel free to speculate as optimistically as you want.

i agree. everything here is speculation until the car is released, and the pure greatness of this car will be told by its sales by the thousands/day.
i see this as a $40k car that gets 50mpg, no luxury, no sportiness, no "cool" technology (think Infinity EX/FX), no easy service, no cheap parts, no reliability data, etc get my point?
$5 says it'll be far more hype and more failure.

that's true for *ANY* new vehicle output by *ANY* manufacturer.

someone who is looking to buy a prius/insight is not going to cross-shop with an MS3, Cobalt SS, VW GTI. clearly, you fail at understanding something we call a "market"

unless you have sat in and driven the volt, you have no ability to comment on any characteristics of it whatsoever with any shred of credibility (just like the rest of us)

as far as i can tell - this looks pretty good

which is why car manufacturers such as BMW/Honda/Toyota stick with the same name/tried and true platforms. wonder why GM had to change the entire cavelier platform into a brand new car called the cobalt? because the cav was a failure. and isn't the new new cobalt about to be replaced by the cruze? cuz the cobalt is a failure?

yes, i have no reliability data, i just have statistics on the car manufacturer's history. if you're going to discredit me, then every other person who's posted in this thread giving their opinion must be discredited. i agree, everything now is just speculation. and my speculation that this is a half-assed car that will not sell and will not save GM.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

No it wouldn't. That's a battery upgrade that allows increased use of the electric motor, but would still use the gas engine to power the car at times.

It wouldn't what?

I'm aware of what the upgrade is.

Plug in hybrids are coming and they will be strong competition for the Volt.

The Volt will also use the gas engine quite a bit since 40 miles is almost certainly optimistic for most drivers. For many folks it's a long drive to the grocery store.

Me, I drive about 10 miles a day, so it matters little what I drive or how much fuel it burns. It's not costing me much to do my daily driving even at $4 a gallon for gasoline.

The hybrids have tax credits too...but let's not pretend they don't cost that much because of a subsidy. We are all paying for these subsidies.

The Prius with Edrive wouldn't run on just electricity unless someone managed to drive under 34mph the entire time. I guess I wasn't specific on that first sentence.

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
which is why car manufacturers such as BMW/Honda/Toyota stick with the same name/tried and true platforms. wonder why GM had to change the entire cavelier platform into a brand new car called the cobalt? because the cav was a failure. and isn't the new new cobalt about to be replaced by the cruze? cuz the cobalt is a failure?

yes, i have no reliability data, i just have statistics on the car manufacturer's history. if you're going to discredit me, then every other person who's posted in this thread giving their opinion must be discredited. i agree, everything now is just speculation. and my speculation that this is a half-assed car that will not sell and will not save GM.

The Volt isn't meant to save GM.

And car manufactures may stick with the same names, but they change platforms frequently.

 

[LTC8K6]

uh, something like 80% of all americans drive less than 40 miles a day...

So what? How often do they drive 40 miles a day?

And what does that have to do with the 40 mile range being optimistic for most drivers?
Not to mention if you turn the A/C on...

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Prius, or an Insight, or a Volt.

I care not a whit one way or the other.

I just can't see any advantage for the Volt except if you want to seem green.

 

[LTC8K6]

The Prius with Edrive wouldn't run on just electricity unless someone managed to drive under 34mph the entire time.

It is possible to drive in EV mode at speeds over 34mph and up to 55mph if the power requirements are low enough.

 

[LTC8K6]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/

Looks like everything anyone would want to know.

Change that to a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid and I'll agree.

Heck if Ford made a plug-in version of a Fusion Hybrid, I'd be scared if I was GM.

I was responding to a claim that Toyota wouldn't say what a base model 2010 Prius came equipped with.