Chevrolet Volt Integration Vehicle Assembly has begun

[StageLeft]

I thought electric vehicles generally had a single gear; I assume the transmission on this car is actually quite simple, though the rest of the powertrain is not.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

ssshhhhhh... people don't want to hear that.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

you do realize you can't shovel coal into a turbine, right?

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

you do realize you can't shovel coal into a turbine, right?

you do know how most power plants operate, right?

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

you do realize you can't shovel coal into a turbine, right?

Yes, but coal can be burned to make steam. Steam can be used to spin turbines.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

you do realize you can't shovel coal into a turbine, right?

you do know how most power plants operate, right?

cyclonic furnaces are not turbines

 

[Draftee]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

You haven't done the math.

Electricity generation in the US creates, on average (including coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar etc), approximately 0.609kg/kWh.

Since the Volt has a 16kWh battery which is good for 40 miles, that works out to be 0.2436kg CO2 per mile.

On the other hand, the Prius uses 89g/km, or for comparison, 0.143kg CO2 per mile.

Volt = 0.2436kg/mile
Prius = 0.143kg/mile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...rbon_dioxide_emissions
http://www.manicore.com/anglai.../carbon_inventory.html
http://gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

you do realize you can't shovel coal into a turbine, right?

you do know how most power plants operate, right?

cyclonic furnaces are not turbines

A cyclonic furnace heats the water that spins a turbine...

Originally posted by: Draftee

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

You haven't done the math.

Electricity generation in the US creates, on average (including coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar etc), approximately 0.609kg/kWh.

Since the Volt has a 16kWh battery which is good for 40 miles, that works out to be 0.2436kg CO2 per mile.

On the other hand, the Prius uses 89g/km, or for comparison, 0.143kg CO2 per mile.

Volt = 0.2436kg/mile
Prius = 0.143kg/mile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...rbon_dioxide_emissions
http://www.manicore.com/anglai.../carbon_inventory.html
http://gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/

Interesting, the numbers I've found say the US average is .19kg/kWh but those may be wrong.

Which would be .076kg/mile for the Volt.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Draftee

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

You haven't done the math.

Electricity generation in the US creates, on average (including coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar etc), approximately 0.609kg/kWh.

Since the Volt has a 16kWh battery which is good for 40 miles, that works out to be 0.2436kg CO2 per mile.

On the other hand, the Prius uses 89g/km, or for comparison, 0.143kg CO2 per mile.

Volt = 0.2436kg/mile
Prius = 0.143kg/mile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...rbon_dioxide_emissions
http://www.manicore.com/anglai.../carbon_inventory.html
http://gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/

and how much CO2 do you think it takes to drill oil from the ground? that's gonna add to the prius' CO2/mile, if you're going to include the source.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

you do realize you can't shovel coal into a turbine, right?

you do know how most power plants operate, right?

cyclonic furnaces are not turbines

A cyclonic furnace heats the water that spins a turbine...

are you talking about turbine generators used to turn the kinetic energy of a working fluid into electrical energy, like steam from a boiler or a hydroelectric plant? because those are used all over the world for the past century, and you can't find much electricity that's not generated in this way.

or, are you talking about internal combustion turbine engines, like jets and turboshafts? because those don't eat fucking coal period

 

[Draftee]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Draftee

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

You haven't done the math.

Electricity generation in the US creates, on average (including coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar etc), approximately 0.609kg/kWh.

Since the Volt has a 16kWh battery which is good for 40 miles, that works out to be 0.2436kg CO2 per mile.

On the other hand, the Prius uses 89g/km, or for comparison, 0.143kg CO2 per mile.

Volt = 0.2436kg/mile
Prius = 0.143kg/mile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...rbon_dioxide_emissions
http://www.manicore.com/anglai.../carbon_inventory.html
http://gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/

and how much CO2 do you think it takes to drill oil from the ground? that's gonna add to the prius' CO2/mile, if you're going to include the source.

You're absolutely right, I hadn't thought of that. Apparently it is difficult to determine the energy use of petroleum industries. The IPCC estimates that the

petroleum industry operations consume up to 15 to 20% of the energy in crude oil

http://books.google.com.au/boo...ult&ct=result&resnum=4

That would mean the Prius' total footprint is about 0.172kg/mile.

 

[Synomenon]

The Volt looks like a nice car from the latest pictures I've seen of it. Has the final pricing been announced yet? With the very complex engine (what some of you have said), how much is it going to cost to maintain this car?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
The Volt looks like a nice car from the latest pictures I've seen of it. Has the final pricing been announced yet? With the very complex engine (what some of you have said), how much is it going to cost to maintain this car?

I have not seen anybody talk about updated pricing in well over a year; nobody seems to know what it will cost.

Wiki has some comment about it from Oct 20008 costing more than $30k in australia. That's not helpful. The next house I buy will cost more than $5, so what does that tell you?

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
The Volt looks like a nice car from the latest pictures I've seen of it. Has the final pricing been announced yet? With the very complex engine (what some of you have said), how much is it going to cost to maintain this car?

I have not seen anybody talk about updated pricing in well over a year; nobody seems to know what it will cost.

Wiki has some comment about it from Oct 20008 costing more than $30k in australia. That's not helpful. The next house I buy will cost more than $5, so what does that tell you?

Bob Lutz in his interview with Dave Letterman stated that they were still shooting for the $40K number with a hopeful $7.5k rebate from the government making it a $32K car.

This will not be a purchase for economic reasons. It will be a purchase for making a statement and supporting new technology (which I am fine with).

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
the typical full time frame for a complete vehicle from sketch to being is 8 years, including frame design

That sounds high. I know that Ford, GM and Chrysler were shooting for a 2 year from concept to production method about 10 years ago (working as a supplier, we were told as such so that we were expected to develop our products quicker and tool them up even faster). They were at about 4 years then while Toyota/Honda were sub 3 years from concept to production.

It depends on what part of the process you are talking about. So many cars are built on previous platforms with previous drivetrains that the time frame can vary greatly. Most suppliers are not brought in until the vehicle is about 4 years from launch.

On average, it is about 5 years.

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: Draftee

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

You haven't done the math.

Electricity generation in the US creates, on average (including coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar etc), approximately 0.609kg/kWh.

Since the Volt has a 16kWh battery which is good for 40 miles, that works out to be 0.2436kg CO2 per mile.

On the other hand, the Prius uses 89g/km, or for comparison, 0.143kg CO2 per mile.

Volt = 0.2436kg/mile
Prius = 0.143kg/mile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...rbon_dioxide_emissions
http://www.manicore.com/anglai.../carbon_inventory.html
http://gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/

Even if your numbers for kg/kwh are accurate, I was under the impression that the volt battery was only discharged halfway to get those 40 miles, so you might want to split the value for the volt.

.2436/2= .1218 which is less than the prius.

 

[OFFascist]

The Volt seemed like a good idea, but I'm not planning on buying anything from Government Motors for a good long while if ever.

Ford or Toyota for me.

 

[thescreensavers]

so the 40 mile battery works for under what speed 35? 45?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: thescreensavers
so the 40 mile battery works for under what speed 35? 45?

I've not heard any specifics at all, it's kind of a number that has been thrown out there. I'd love to see somebody actually road test the damn thing.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: thescreensavers
so the 40 mile battery works for under what speed 35? 45?

GM really has done a shitty job explaining what the Volt is.

The Volt will be driven by the electric motor at all speeds. The battery will power the electric motor at all speeds. The gas engine will turn on and produce electricity so that the battery won't fall below a 30% charge.

For all intents and purposes, the Volt is essentially an electric car that comes with a gas powered generator (it's really what it should be called) for when the battery gets low.

I think their first mistake was describing it as a hybrid. Too many people seem to think it's just a Prius that can be plugged with a shitty range.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: thescreensavers
so the 40 mile battery works for under what speed 35? 45?

All speeds. The actual drivetrain is completely electric. The motor on board is purely a generator to power the drivetrain when the battery is spent.

 

[brblx]

my biggest wonder was why they didn't go with a diesel generator. so far VW has been the only one with balls enough to basically say that americans don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to a modern diesel (i.e. 'it's too dirty,' 'it's too noisy'). all they'd need is basically a big truck APU.

working for volvo, it pained me to see the plethora of efficient engines available in europe, and all they give us is turbo 5 and 6 cylinder gas engines.

and i agree that shifting the load off on the power grid is not really helping anything. if they want to do something that's not just a marketing ploy, why not cover the top of the car with solar panels or capture energy from a wind turbine at highway speeds (i've been wondering about the feasability of that for a long time- surely with the right design you could make a good bit more energy than what is lost in drag). this is my main problem- no one at GM thinks, they just do what they think the market wants. and fail, typically.

mmm...after thinking some more, wind turbine would be a perpetual motion machine, wouldn't it? this is why i'm not an engineer. but still, come up with SOMETHING new. or we can just hope we've got enough cheap oil to get us to the point where fuel cells are cost feasible.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: Draftee

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Draftee
November 2010? And what are they going to do? Oh yeah, store and use electricity, 70% of which is generated from fossil fuels... (and that isn't counting the on-board generator). The entire concept is very short-sighted.

Who's for a cup of marketing hype?

You do realize that larger turbine style generators are far more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than internal combustion engines in cars right?

You haven't done the math.

Electricity generation in the US creates, on average (including coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar etc), approximately 0.609kg/kWh.

Since the Volt has a 16kWh battery which is good for 40 miles, that works out to be 0.2436kg CO2 per mile.

On the other hand, the Prius uses 89g/km, or for comparison, 0.143kg CO2 per mile.

Volt = 0.2436kg/mile
Prius = 0.143kg/mile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...rbon_dioxide_emissions
http://www.manicore.com/anglai.../carbon_inventory.html
http://gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/

Like CO2 really matters that much... :disgust:
Food for trees! I see no problem.

 

[CupCak3]

Originally posted by: brblx
my biggest wonder was why they didn't go with a diesel generator. so far VW has been the only one with balls enough to basically say that americans don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to a modern diesel (i.e. 'it's too dirty,' 'it's too noisy'). all they'd need is basically a big truck APU.

working for volvo, it pained me to see the plethora of efficient engines available in europe, and all they give us is turbo 5 and 6 cylinder gas engines.

and i agree that shifting the load off on the power grid is not really helping anything. if they want to do something that's not just a marketing ploy, why not cover the top of the car with solar panels or capture energy from a wind turbine at highway speeds (i've been wondering about the feasability of that for a long time- surely with the right design you could make a good bit more energy than what is lost in drag). this is my main problem- no one at GM thinks, they just do what they think the market wants. and fail, typically.

mmm...after thinking some more, wind turbine would be a perpetual motion machine, wouldn't it? this is why i'm not an engineer. but still, come up with SOMETHING new. or we can just hope we've got enough cheap oil to get us to the point where fuel cells are cost feasible.

Never would have guessed that... :roll:




something more on topic...

Thanks for the link Mike. I'm really hoping that GM's rush and sticking to its original commitment doesn't come to bit it in its ass with quality issues...