Checking file system on C:

[DasFox]

I just bought a Raptor 150 and I contacted WD Enterprise tech suport today, just to make sure I didn't have a faulty hard drive. They told me with the Data Lifeguard, that if I ran, 'Write Zeros to Drive' 'Quick Test' and 'Extended Test' and none of them gave any errors that the hard drive would not be faulty and would be good.

Well I ran all of them and there where no errors, but why everytime I run a CHKDSK on a reboot, it always shows minor inconsistencies on the drive to cleanup?

Here is what I just got when running it for the first time after a clean install of XP Pro SP1, with only nForce Platform and video drivers installed, Firefox and nothing else.


Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.

A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.
Cleaning up minor inconsistencies on the drive.
Cleaning up 28 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 28 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 28 unused security descriptors.
CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
File data verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
Free space verification is complete.

26113625 KB total disk space.
5409448 KB in 10267 files.
2680 KB in 698 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
78745 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
20622752 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
6528406 total allocation units on disk.
5155688 allocation units available on disk.

Internal Info:
b5 2e 00 00 e0 2a 00 00 d9 31 00 00 00 00 00 00 .....*...1......
3e 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 8c 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 >...............
b2 ba dd 00 00 00 00 00 c0 0e 16 02 00 00 00 00 ................
a4 93 d6 00 00 00 00 00 88 88 cf 38 00 00 00 00 ...........8....
ec 2c f3 93 00 00 00 00 56 c5 16 d7 00 00 00 00 .,......V.......
10 55 c3 77 00 00 00 00 1b 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 .U.w.....(......
00 a0 2a 4a 01 00 00 00 ba 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 ..*J............

Windows has finished checking your disk.
Please wait while your computer restarts.


For more information, see Help and Support Center at

 

[alimoalem]

where is the inconsistency exactly?

 

[DasFox]

In 'Computer Management' 'System'

---> http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chkdsk2xj.jpg

 

[srygonic]

I know... have you enabled big drive? Use maxtors big drive enabler or download it from seagate...

 

[Lord Evermore]

Probably not useful, but file 0x9 (9 hex and decimal) seems to be the Quota index file. SOO is Security ID Index and SDH is Security Descriptor Hash. So possibly it's finding where some files were improperly edited in their permissions or folder quotas?

It happens every time you reboot? Or only if you schedule a disk check on the next reboot? Is it always the same file 0x9 indicated, and the same number of index entries?

It may be due to any of a number of other hardware problems as well. Possibly even you knocked some other component loose while installing the drive.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Originally posted by: srygonic
I know... have you enabled big drive? Use maxtors big drive enabler or download it from seagate...

XP SP1 supports drives over 137GB, and no mainboard made in the last few years has had any problems supporting them. Software overlays for large drives are only needed for old systems. If there were any problems with that, the drive wouldn't be working at all or would only show up as a smaller size.

[Edit] Oh crap nevermind, it's SP2 that added support. Still, I don't think that it would result in this sort of error. Can't hurt to try though, it's just a registry setting.

[Edit 2] No wait, according to Microsoft, SP1 supports it and it's enabled by default.

 

[DasFox]

Lord Evermore, the system was built very carefully nothing has been knocked around. I have the hard drive in 2 partitions and the C: drive that I am running the scan on is only 25GB.

Yes this keeps happening always on the same files:

A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.
Cleaning up 1 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 1 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 1 unused security descriptors.
CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
File data verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
Free space verification is complete.

26113625 KB total disk space.
5443184 KB in 10274 files.
2684 KB in 698 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
78745 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
20589012 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
6528406 total allocation units on disk.
5147253 allocation units available on disk.


I talked to Western Digital today and they told me if I use the Data Lifeguard and run all 3 tests:

Write Zeros to drive
Quick Test
Extended Test

And there where no errors then the hard drive is ok.

Guess WHAT I have ---> No Errors, so now what?

 

[Lord Evermore]

Another way that you could test whether this is happening due to a problem with a particular part of the disk (though I'm not sure it's really valid since the disk tests fine with the utilities): install Windows to the other partition and see if the same errors occur.

It really can't hurt to reseat memory, although problems with that usually result in blue screens.

The fact that it occurs constantly on the same file now could point to a specific software problem (what problem, I couldn't say) or be a sign that there really is a part of the drive that is bad where that particular file happens to be.

You could also try copying the partition to another drive or the spare space on that drive, wiping the first partition, then copying the data back to it (change the partition size as well, so that the master file table is less likely to be put in the same place). That would move the file data around a bit. If the disk check still came up with that exact file being the issue, then it's a software issue, since the bits of that file aren't in the same physical location anymore (drive copying software never puts the data back in exactly the same location unless it's a bit for bit copy).

Oh, and go ahead and run the big drive enabler from Maxtor. It isn't going to hurt, it's a really simple thing if it happens to fix the problem, and won't cause any problems just because of the brand names.

 

[srygonic]

Oh... cause I had the same problem here... http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=1778901 and that helped for me. Best of luck to you -.-

 

[DasFox]

I've run the Data Lifeguard tests and I ran Prime95 for 8 hours with no problems. Since 'Write Zeros to drive' formats it, it has been reinstalled over with the same problem. I also changed the SATA ribbon and messed with Bios settings, but I have not tried clearing it.

I don't need a big drive enabler the partition is only 25GB in size, I don't see how that would help since this is well under the size. I also was running XP Pro SP2 and then installed SP1 with no changes, still the same issue.

Also I installed and uninstalled the nForce IDE drivers and ran it on the MS ones, but let me try that again, because this should really be the issue, IDE related.

P.S. Let me go and clear the cmos and brb!

THANKS

 

[Lord Evermore]

The same file was being referenced by chkdsk before you wiped and reinstalled? Was the partition the same size before you wiped and reformatted and installed? If so, then things like the master file table may have been placed in the exact (or almost exact) location, since it normally is placed in the middle of the partition I think. That was why I suggested installing to another partition. Then you could just read and write some files to the first one as a D drive, and see if chkdsk still gets the same errors there (if it's software then the problem would most likely only affect the drive where Windows is installed in this case).

You may as well try the big drive enabler. It certainly doesn't sound like you need it, but how stupid will you feel if you spend forever on this and that's what fixes it?

You may end up having to put the thing in another computer just to eliminate every other variable.

 

[DasFox]

Here is a post I did on this yesterday over at Abit's

http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?t=101340

No I changed the partition size today, it's close to the same only give or take 500MB in difference.

So what's the plan now?

By the way I cleared the cmos and swapped memory and no go still the same. In the meantime I'm going to install the version of nForce platform drivers off the motherboard CD which are not the latest and see what happens.

 

[Lord Evermore]

My only two remaining suggestions were to move the partition to the empty space and boot from it there, to see whether the software is the problem, or to move the drive to another PC and see what happens.

 

[DasFox]

You mean reinstall XP to the D: drive I have?

 

[Lord Evermore]

Not install it. Use an application like PartitionMagic to move the partition from the current 25GB area, to the empty space farther into the disk. So there'd be a blank 25GB at the beginning. DataLifeGuard may allow you to at least copy the partition and then you can delete the first one, or Maxtor's MaxBlast might (they may only allow drive to drive, not partition to partition), or Ghost of course.

If the problem goes away, then it's the hardware having issues with that section of the drive. If the problem follows it, then there's some sort of software issue. It's very unlikely that it's anything but those two things, it's too consistent a problem.

 

[DasFox]

Ahh sheesh I hate messing with stuff like Partition Magic, LOL

Man by the time I get done, reformating, installing removing and deleting it will be a wonder the drive is still alive, LOL, just kidding.

OK let see about doing this partition magic.


P.S. If I'm going to mess with partitions, what about I just make another partition size?, because when I get done with this Partiton Magic I'm going to just reinstall XP anyways, I wouldn't want to leave the drive this way.

So right now the drive is 24GB if I made it like 20GB or 15GB would that make a big enough change to test or not sure?

 

[Lord Evermore]

Although the size would probably be enough to change, PartitionMagic wouldn't need to physically move any of the data unless it happened to be right at the end or beginning of the drive, within the area you were truncating. We're not entirely sure where the data is that is giving you problems (my guess is in the middle in the MFT) so it's best to just move the partition; all of the data gets rewritten to a new location that way, and none of it will be in the space where old data was.

 

[DasFox]

OK wait, HOLD on TAKE 2, LOL lookie at this:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=109524#appliesto

NOW what about this:

CAUSE

In the above error message, "minor inconsistencies" refers to a state where redundant information stored in different places is "out of synch." This is a natural and expected condition whenever there are open files on the volume that have undergone modification. The redundant information is not brought into synchronization until the files are closed. Typically, this error message occurs when CHKDSK is run against the volume containing Windows NT system files (including active user profiles and the pagefile). If you also receive a message indicating that CHKDSK /f cannot run because the volume is in use by another process, that is a confirmation that there are open files on the volume.

Well I have never been able to run chkdsk from the cmd prompt in XP, it has always had open files on the volume, SO they are saying you can actually have them closed?

If so maybe this is my solution to close them and then check the volume again.

P.S. My bad from what I know you can only run it from the cmd, but it needs to check it on a reboot.

 

[Lord Evermore]

When chkdsk is run during bootup, it's running with the drive locked so there are no open files. When you shut down the system, Windows should be synching all of the data and indexes. (There are two copies of the master file table on the disk, this is the "redundant" information. Also might refer to parts of files that are stored in the MFT itself.)

It's not possible to run chkdsk /f on the system drive while it's running of course, since registry files and DLLs and all that are always open.

What the article refers to is if you are running chkdsk without the /f, on the system drive or any other drive with open files. In that case, you might get the inconsistencies message, but since it can't actually write the changes to disk while the files are open, they aren't corrected. That's why you have the option of running chkdsk during the boot process (very much like running it from a clean DOS boot, where none of the WindowsXP system files are in use).

It isn't odd to have errors about the NTFS file bitmap, or inconsistencies, or other messages when you run chkdsk on a drive with open files. Normally for a non-system drive, you could force it to dismount the drive long enough to run chkdsk /f, which would also force it to commit the changes to disk so the multiple copies of data would synchronize.

It is odd to have inconsistencies every time you run chkdsk on a reboot. Very odd for them to always be in the same file.

 

[DasFox]

So how can we find this file and look at what is there and possibly what is going on with it?

Oh and what about this that Microsoft says:

You can usually safely ignore this error message even if the message appears without there being open files, because it is only the redundant information that is out of synchronization.

Oh yeah when you reboot there is nothing open anymore so there should not be this happening.

Let me stick the drive in my other box and see what happens, HANG TIGHT, brb

 

[Lord Evermore]

By doing what I said and moving the partition.

The file itself would be gibberish to you. One of those things that requires a thorough examination by someone familiar with decoding what it means, i.e., a Microsoft engineer. I'm sure there are utilities that would allow you to find and read the file using its NTFS ID, but I don't know of any specifically. PerfectDisk does let you specify a file ID and it tells you the name, but that's it.

 

[DasFox]

Hey look at this I just found on Google:

http://www.miclasificado.com.ar/cgi/New...g_windows_xp_pro_on_ntfs_partition.php

It just doing non essential cleanup. The only error here
is that it =
shouldn't be telling you this.

Why are you
even running chkdsk. If it needs to run it will without your
=
help. Should there be an error the last thing you want is chkdsk
to run. =


It is a security list that nothing is now using.
So it removes
it.

They are not
errors.

Maybe this is just a bug in either the hardware, firmware or XP.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Might be, but you've got the chance to confirm it. I've never seen it and you're the first person I've seen ask about it.

And there are of course reasons to run chkdsk even if the system doesn't think it "needs" to run. XP isn't perfect and doesn't always know it's got a corrupted file.

If you let the system run for a while, and then run a chkdsk and it finds an even larger number of inconsistencies, then they're accumulating. Windows isn't doing proper maintenance on the file system, something is wrong.

 

[DasFox]

I'll give it a few days and check it on Monday and I'll call WD Tech Support and see what they say. Personally I think I just have incompatibility issues, between possibly my bios version, motherboard cpu, memory and this Raptor along with the nForce drivers.

I mean let's face it XP has been around awhile and now I'm running the latest generation SLi hardware on it. It's about time I'm sure inconsistencies like this show up.

I can't wait till Vista comes out for this newer hardware and then hopefully the performance will really start to shine for this x64 SLI box I have.

THANKS

 

[DasFox]

Ok get this, I put in another hard drive on this box a Maxtor Maxline III 300GB 16mb buffer and when I install the nForce IDE drivers it won't boot up XP and I tried 2 different versions of the nForce drivers and neither one will boot up, so what is with this?

Could this be the problem, bad controllers, on the motherboard, or nForce IDE drivers are flaky?

I thought if you had a Nvidia chip motherboard you are suppose to use the nForce IDE drivers?