Check lost in mail

[Muse]

My long time insurance agent folded his tent a year or two ago and sent his business to another agency. My policies went over to them, and I was assigned an agent. My dealings with him have been OK. I've never met either of these guys in person!

Well, a few months ago I was talking to him and he said we could look into my getting my homeowner's policy with the same company as my car insurance, being Mercury Insurance. I never heard from him and figured maybe he'd forgotten about it but he sends me a letter a few weeks ago with an offer that looked really good. In addition to getting a lot more coverage for a modest increase in premium I get a 15% discount on my car insurance. I called him and he said all I had to do was send him a check and I paid the entire year's premium, a little less than $1000.

About an hour later I place the envelope with the check in the closest US Mail box, that was 12 days ago, Sat. March 4. His office is maybe 15 miles away. I didn't hear from him and knowing my current policy expires tomorrow I call him this morning and we talk. He says he'd sent me an email earlier in the morning and that they never got my check. He says we can just do it over the phone and I give him my routing and account number for my checking account and then call my bank and put a stop on the check.

The bank rep I talked to said I could, if I am concerned about someone having my routing and account number, open an account with a different number and for two months all my autopays would transfer over automatically and meantime I could contact my institutions and tell them my new info.

Of course, there's a chance that the envelope will still be delivered, some 10 or so years ago I remember it taking one letter around a month to arrive but it eventually did. I called my insurance agent back and he said he'd contact me right away if they receive the missing envelope.

Should I change my account number?

 

[highland145]

Anyone you give a check to will have your routing/account number. You can't prevent them or their employees from doing something nefarious if they want to. You can just watch your accounts. If there is fraud, you can get your $$ back...eventually.

And stop payments are expensive.

 

[Crusty]

Anyone you give a check to will have your routing/account number. You can't prevent them or their employees from doing something nefarious if they want to. You can just watch your accounts. If there is fraud, you can get your $$ back...eventually.

Having someones routing and account number will not let you take money from their account. It certainly is prudent to be careful with the information because it's just one small piece to stealing someones identity, but giving someone your routing and account number does not give them the ability to simply take money from your account.

 

[Muse]

Anyone you give a check to will have your routing/account number. You can't prevent them or their employees from doing something nefarious if they want to. You can just watch your accounts. If there is fraud, you can get your $$ back...eventually.

And stop payments are expensive.

Good points, and thank you. I knew that stop payments are expensive. I asked how much it was costing me and he said the charge is $30 but that he'd waive the charge! :awe:

I figure you're right and I'll just watch my statements. The stop payment itself will expire in a year and the bank rep said that it's unlikely that anyone who would want to fraudulently use my account info would do so after a year. Anyway, I always look over my statements, I don't imagine I'll see anything from this, but the amount of that check will stick in my brain.

 

[Elixer]

Having someones routing and account number will not let you take money from their account. It certainly is prudent to be careful with the information because it's just one small piece to stealing someones identity, but giving someone your routing and account number does not give them the ability to simply take money from your account.

What do you mean?
There are payment places, that just want name, account # and routing #, then they can start doing virtual checks that way.

Usually, for the missing check, they wash it, so the ink comes off that you wrote, and then they write their own name, and go to those payment places to cash it.

 

[Muse]

Having someones routing and account number will not let you take money from their account. It certainly is prudent to be careful with the information because it's just one small piece to stealing someones identity, but giving someone your routing and account number does not give them the ability to simply take money from your account.

Thanks, I've often wondered about that. When I get blank checks in the mail from my bank with my name on them I always shred them for fear that if someone rifled my trash they'd be able to ding my account.

 

[highland145]

What do you mean?
There are payment places, that just want name, account # and routing #, then they can start doing virtual checks that way.

Usually, for the missing check, they wash it, so the ink comes off that you wrote, and then they write their own name, and go to those payment places to cash it.

My office software is set up for that, not that I use it.

 

[Crusty]

What do you mean?
There are payment places, that just want name, account # and routing #, then they can start doing virtual checks that way.

To withdraw from someones account with their routing and account # you first need to be able to accept a tiny deposit into the account and report the value to entity processing the withdrawals. It's how the ACH transfer system works.

 

[Crusty]

Usually, for the missing check, they wash it, so the ink comes off that you wrote, and then they write their own name, and go to those payment places to cash it.

Yes, that's because it is a check. Anybody can forge a check and anybody can attempt to cash it, but that's different than simply knowing the routing and account #'s and attempting to do ACH withdrawals with that information.

 

[Muse]

I'm wondering if I should contact the USPS and ask if there was a mail box break in on the day I mailed that check. Or at least report that an envelope I mailed never reached its destination.

 

[Elixer]

To withdraw from someones account with their routing and account # you first need to be able to accept a tiny deposit into the account and report the value to entity processing the withdrawals. It's how the ACH transfer system works.

Ahh, didn't know that. At least they aren't complete idiots running this stuff.

 

[highland145]

My office software is set up for that, not that I use it.

And I guess that's a good thing because the tech I just talked with couldn't help me with it. I'd probably need to get a service to handle it like an ACH.

 

[Crusty]

Ahh, didn't know that. At least they aren't complete idiots running this stuff.

AFAIK it's baked into ACH and to get certified to submit ACH payments you must comply with that and any additional anti-money laundering and 'know your customer' regulations, depending on what services you are providing.

ACH transfers are classified as push or pull. Pushing into an account is usually seamless and doesn't really require much qualification, this is how direct deposits are done. Your company's payroll processor takes your voided check, verifies your identity themselves and then can just push money into your account via ACH. The only reason you give them a voided check is because it is/was the easiest way to get the correct routing/account information for someones checking account, the check itself doesn't authorize them to do anything since it's not signed or anything.

But, for example, paying your utility bill through an ACH transfer is a pull request. You are telling your utility company to pull money from your account and are authorizing the amount and time it should occur. Since only authorized users of the account are allowed to withdraw money, you first need to prove ownership of the account by verifying the small deposits in your account.

 

[Muse]

Ahh, didn't know that. At least they aren't complete idiots running this stuff.

Yeah, that I knew, I've done that several times when setting up ACH transfers.

You know it's an odd thing, but the policy and the letters I got from the agency had a post office box as the address. However, the agent included his card in the envelope with the policy offer and that didn't have the PO box address but the agency's street address instead. I sent it to the street address on the hunch that it was the better address to use. Whoops, maybe not! The agent told me today that would work fine, but it didn't... I figure I should contact USPS customer service.

 

[Homerboy]

Your entire years premium for home and auto was under $1000? Sign me up!

 

[highland145]

Your entire years premium for home and auto was under $1000? Sign me up!

TBH, it is a cardboard box under that rainbow.

 

[Muse]

Your entire years premium for home and auto was under $1000? Sign me up!

No, that was just the home but the auto's really cheap (I think, at least when I have tried the competitors they've never come close) at around $550. I haven't had a claim or moving violation in decades. On top of that I drive maybe 1500 miles/year, and around half of that is ~20 mile every other week freeway jaunts just to keep the car limber.

 

[MixMasterTang]

But, for example, paying your utility bill through an ACH transfer is a pull request. You are telling your utility company to pull money from your account and are authorizing the amount and time it should occur. Since only authorized users of the account are allowed to withdraw money, you first need to prove ownership of the account by verifying the small deposits in your account.

FWIW I top off my kids school lunch accounts with an "electronic check" (basically just routing # and account #) and I've never needed to prove ownership of that account to them.

 

[Muse]

So, I call USPS Customer Service, finally get a woman who says I need to talk to the local USPS office and must ask them to double check the mail box and make sure nothing's stuck in the box. She gives me the phone number. I then call that and get a line not in service recording. I find their working number, call that and ask for the person with the position title specified by USPS CS. She says she's that person and she tries to tell me they are sure nothing's stuck in the box (read that to mean she doesn't give a shit and won't ask anyone to double check the mailbox). She says she's going to check things out, takes my phone number (this is two days ago) and get back to me. I haven't heard from them. Read all that to mean the USPS is whack. I figure my letter is either stuck in that box, was routed somewhere wrong and is in limbo or is in a sack that was lost in the shuffle. I guess maybe I'll call local PO again, but don't expect anything good to come of it.

I never feel comfortable sending checks in the mail, or receiving them, actually.

 

[Brainonska511]

I had a check "lost" a few months ago, but I think it was initially misrouted (the OCR that envelopes go through might have read 0s in the zip code as 8s). It eventually showed up after a month, but I had already mailed another check and put a stop payment on the first check ($30 for 6 months of stop-payment service).

 

[Muse]

I had a check "lost" a few months ago, but I think it was initially misrouted (the OCR that envelopes go through might have read 0s in the zip code as 8s). It eventually showed up after a month, but I had already mailed another check and put a stop payment on the first check ($30 for 6 months of stop-payment service).

I think the other lost envelope I sent that didn't arrive (something like a dozen years ago) eventually showed up, also around a month late. I figure it's likely this one will show up too at some point.

I didn't know the PO uses OCR. I'll try extra hard to use good printing in my addresses, I thought they were actually read by humans!

 

[Crusty]

FWIW I top off my kids school lunch accounts with an "electronic check" (basically just routing # and account #) and I've never needed to prove ownership of that account to them.

Well the push vs pull mechanism does not have to follow the direction of payment. You could very well be paying them with a push transaction.

 

[Brainonska511]

I didn't know the PO uses OCR. I'll try extra hard to use good printing in my addresses, I thought they were actually read by humans!

They've been using it on zip codes for years - the machine reads the zip code, then prints the little bar code on the envelope. It's probably why they also charge extra for square and non-bendable envelopes, as they likely can't go through the machine for sorting.

 

[Elixer]

I didn't know the PO uses OCR. I'll try extra hard to use good printing in my addresses, I thought they were actually read by humans!

Yeah, they have very high speed sorters, and the "duds" (too messy for machine to read) go to human readers.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I always thought the concept of cheques was crazy. You may as well write down your banking password on it too. But sadly it's how things work and lot of places still only deal with cheques.