Cheating or Not, who is and who isn't? ATI? Nvidia?

[SilverTrine]

Whats this who cares crap? Of course I care if the card I buy cheats in major benchmarks. That would be like Intel acting like a 2.0ghz processor performs like a 2.4ghz processor by cheating in benchmarks, better believe I care.
As of now the ONLY drivers that detect 3dmark2003 and run custom code are Nvidia's.
So theres your answer Nvidia is the only company still engaging in cheating.

 

[Keysplayr]

Lock this thread!!!!! Its been so done. Why cant you just do a search for the other 250 threads that deal with this madness? There is no solution and if you think AT forum can give you one, you are barking up the wrong IP address.

 

[SneakyStuff]

This thread has absolutely NO RELEVANCE TO ANY REAL-WORLD COMPUTING TASKS. I just play the games, I dont give a flying fvck who "cheats" with their drivers, as long as they're compatable, and they run my games, i'm content. And like nick said, they both cheated, nobody really cares, end of story!

 

[Ackmed]

You cant just say, "They both cheated, the end." nVidia still does, their drivers detect 3DMARK, which is a violation of FM's rules. nVidia knows it, FM knows it, only the ignorant reviewers seem to not know it. They still post results with 53.03 drivers, which falsely inflate the score of FX cards.

Case in point: http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/XTs/index.htm

The Point Of View 5900XT comes clocked at 300/680

They are not even smart enough to know the card has 2D and 3D clocks, that are different. They have edited their review now to show the correct speeds. I mean honestly, where do they get these guys?

They even went on to say that the 53.03 drivers were not FM approved, yet used them for 3DMARK 2003 anyway. They have since taken the 3DMARk 2003 portion out of their review. Guess they got embarrassed.

 

[SneakyStuff]

LOCK THIS THREAD!!!!!

 

[modedepe]

*joins nick in praying for a lock*

 

[JJN]

optimize this, render that, blah blah blah the cards aren't exactly the same and therefore things don't look exactly the same. Some cards are better at certain aspects than others. Just put more stock in the reviews that use actual gameplay for their benchmarks and stop relying on crap like 3DMark03.

 

[Gagabiji]

what about editing in-game screenshots?

 

[VIAN]

I think we never got anywhere with these arguements because of people that say "who the hell cares" that distract us from the real problem.

3dmark03 is just a bunch of bs, them an their fake gaming benchmark that couldn't be more from their advertised truth. It should be a call a GPU benchmark that tests the power of GPUs. 3dmark2001 deserves more merit. Still used and more of the kind of benchmarks, FM claims 03 to be.

Editing in-game screenshots is also another form of cheating or a really persistant bug. But, I doubt it.

 

[Keysplayr]

Everyone form a circle and close your eyes and pray. Maybe the Gods of AT will answer our prayers. Lock, lock, lock... Chant with me....

 

[bpt8056]

*chanting along* Lock lock lock....

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: VIAN
I think we never got anywhere with these arguements because of people that say "who the hell cares" that distract us from the real problem.

3dmark03 is just a bunch of bs, them an their fake gaming benchmark that couldn't be more from their advertised truth. It should be a call a GPU benchmark that tests the power of GPUs. 3dmark2001 deserves more merit. Still used and more of the kind of benchmarks, FM claims 03 to be.

Editing in-game screenshots is also another form of cheating or a really persistant bug. But, I doubt it.

Why can't there be a bench mark using DirectX that fails unless ALL requirements of the ver. of directX are being used during the test.

I like MS Rise of Nations, it shows the frame as you play, a fair way to see the performance as used I feel.

Must be a way to do the same for openGL

 

[BFG10K]

The definition of a cheat is quite simple:

A section of code that relies on pre-calculated knowledge (e.g algorithmic detection, application detection, shader detection, etc) to work.

and/or

A section of code that for all possible inputs purposefully alters one or more outputs to incorrect values.

Anyone who violates those rules is cheating, regardless of who it is.

 

[nick1985]

<reaches my hands out to others to join me in my prayer for a lock>

:beer:

 

[Ackmed]

All of your "lock this thread" posts, just bump it up to the top. Good job on that.

 

[VIAN]

There is no God.

The definition of a cheat is quite simple:

A section of code that relies on pre-calculated knowledge (e.g algorithmic detection, application detection, shader detection, etc) to work.

and/or

A section of code that for all possible inputs purposefully alters one or more outputs to incorrect values.

Anyone who violates those rules is cheating, regardless of who it is.

I agree with those. Application detection should not be required. Even if it is to fix a problem, the developer should provide a fix and not the Hardware manufacturer.

and others call that cheating if there drivers to whatever (including lowering grahpics quality), why is that a cheat?

It's not, but some people seem to think it is. Although, I wouldn't like the graphics card to do that automatically. The good it performs or how crappy it looks should be up to the user. If I want real Trilinear, then I want real Trilinear, not Brilinear or Bilinear where Trilinear should be. It is a cheat if I set the filter to Trilinear and they give me bilinear. That is breaking the rule I just set as well as an attempt to change the definition of Trilinear.

This is what I would like to request from Nvidia and ATI. I think the list is complete here.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
All of your "lock this thread" posts, just bump it up to the top. Good job on that.

actually, i wouldnt have posted that if it hadnt already been at the top. so i really didnt bump it did i? you dolt?

 

[VIAN]

actually, i wouldnt have posted that if it hadnt already been at the top. so i really didnt bump it did i? you dolt?

Still makes a difference dolt.

You give us many posts and makes the thread seem more important. Thanks.

 

[BFG10K]

I agree with those

Then you'd have to class nVidia as cheating.

Application detection should not be required.

I think it's acceptable to resolve compatibility issues. Some games just won't behave under standard rendering paths and in the end the consumer loses out as a result of this. Application detection in such a case benefits the consumer and because it's not motivated to simply inflate benchmark results, it's a good thing.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: VIAN

actually, i wouldnt have posted that if it hadnt already been at the top. so i really didnt bump it did i? you dolt?

Still makes a difference dolt.

You give us many posts and makes the thread seem more important. Thanks.

your welcome VIAN! thanks for using good manners. i now value your otherwise worthless opinions.


BTW, your mothers a whore.

 

[VIAN]

What do you think about sending this email to both ATI and Nvidia:

This is what myself and some gamers at a forum that have purchased your hardware think is cheating and should be changed if you are guilty. We also include some ideas that we feel would better your product. This is not directed toward any specific company.

1. A section of code that relies on pre-calculated knowledge (ex.: algorithmic detection, application detection, shader detection, etc) to work.

2. A section of code that for all possible inputs purposefully alters one or more outputs to incorrect values.

Number two includes such things as using "Brilinear" instead of Trilinear. If the application calls for a certain setting and/or we choose a certain setting, then we expect to get that setting and not a cheap imitation. We feel cheated by those cheap imitations. Instead, if you wish to continue with the optimization, may you please give use the option to turn it off as well as giving a name to your optimization and not using a name that already means something. An example of this is Nvidia's Trilinear, dubbed "Brilinear." If it isn't the same, then why is it called the same name. Give us the option to have the game rendered just as the application states. Hardware limitations may be taken into consideration for using alternate values.

Please take these statements into consideration. We hope we will be seeing these changes in the very near future. Thank you for time.

your welcome VIAN! thanks for using good manners. i now value your otherwise worthless opinions.

I stopped caring about your posts a while ago. They don't mean anything and are just wasting good bytes.

BTW, your mothers a whore.

Thank You.

V isually
I mpaired
A nal
N ewbie

I love you. :lips:

 

[nick1985]

if anyone gives crappy video advice, its you VIAN.

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: VIAN
What do you think about sending this email to both ATI and Nvidia:

This is what myself and some gamers at a forum that have purchased your hardware think is cheating. We also include some ideas that we feel would better
your product. This is not directed toward a specific company.

1. A section of code that relies on pre-calculated knowledge (ex.: algorithmic detection, application detection, shader detection, etc) to work.

2. A section of code that for all possible inputs purposefully alters one or more outputs to incorrect values. This includes such things as using
"Brilinear" instead of Trilinear. If the application calls for a certain setting and/or we choose a certain setting, then we expect to get that setting
and not a cheap imitation. We feel cheated by those cheap imitations. Instead, if you wish to continue with the optimization, may you please give use
the option to turn it off as well as giving a name to your optimization and not using a name that already means something. An example of this is Nvidia's
Trilinear, dubbed "Brilinear." If it isn't the same, then why is it called the same name. Give us the option to have the game rendered just as the
application states. Hardware limitations may be taken into consideration for using alternate values.



__________________________________

Not a bad idea...

 

[VIAN]

feel free to write any additional changes that you would like to include or take out.

 

[SneakyStuff]

OMFG!!!!!!!!!! nobody cares! if YOU want to send a letter to them super, but COME ON! That is the pinnacle of geekdom........