Cheaper Intel 6C/12T CPU coming? Core i7-3910K spotted

[ehume]

From what I've seen most Haswell chips are just bad.

1.3v to 1.35v on air is still possible for most with top end air or closed loop cooling solutions.

The problem is they're getting garbage overclocks 4.3-4.5GHz with that voltage. I don't even need 1.3v for 4.8GHz, seems the quality of chips coming to desktop for Haswell is leaving something to be desired.

Actually, reading OC 4770k threads elsewhere, we get a tad better than that. Vcores are coming in lower for 4.3 to 4.5GHz. But you're right on the second half: 1.35v will not quite cut it for 4.8GHz. Overall, though, Haswells are not doing as badly as you make out. Especially when you factor in AVX2. It heats up a chip even more than AVX.

But then, you're restating a reason for the 6-core cpu's: soldered ihs to facilitate better cooling. And by next summer, Haswell silicon should be fairly mature, so the only real silicon lottery at that point should be whether you get a center chip or an edge chip.

 

[Gillbot]

Your 4.9GHz i7? Isn't that only like 25% faster than a 4.5GHz i7-4770k in handbrake?

The i7-4770k is probably drawing 150w at the wall whereas you're probably closer to 500w running a custom water loop?

Why does wattage matter in the overall scheme of performance? If you are looking for more performance, are you really that concerned about wattage? Unlikely. Not to mention as you overclock ANY processor, the wattage consumed will increase regardless of platform.

It all depends on the intended use. SB-E wins in many MT applications while Haswell has an edge in CPU bound gaming and anything that doest scale well with more than 4C. I'd still get a 3GHz 6C/12T SB-E intead of a 4770K if they are similarly priced (probably wont be).

4670K - $199
3820 - $229
Cost seems pretty damn close to me. Shrug.

4770K - $279
E5 2620 (6c/12t) - $369
Not too far apart there either of you prefer the cores but slightly lower clock speed. Granted the 3930k is $499 but there are MANY for sale in FS/FT for well under that price still new in box. There may be some pretty cost effective options out there for 2011 here soon.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Actually, reading OC 4770k threads elsewhere, we get a tad better than that. Vcores are coming in lower for 4.3 to 4.5GHz. But you're right on the second half: 1.35v will not quite cut it for 4.8GHz. Overall, though, Haswells are not doing as badly as you make out. Especially when you factor in AVX2. It heats up a chip even more than AVX.

But then, you're restating a reason for the 6-core cpu's: soldered ihs to facilitate better cooling. And by next summer, Haswell silicon should be fairly mature, so the only real silicon lottery at that point should be whether you get a center chip or an edge chip.

Thanks for the update. I'm a bit torn personally since I can do 1.155v @ 4.6 and 1.25v @ 4.8GHz... I also have no issues with temps on a $50 Dark Knight II. I have my experience, and I try to put that into perspective for how most everyone else is viewing Haswell.


I was going to edit that post with this:

My thought is that Haswell is currently being binned for ULP/Laptop/Server before Desktop. Meaning Haswell Desktop seems to be getting the more vcore loving chips that won't run at the specs Intel wants for lower TDP parts. Though it strikes me that they've probably always done that...

When it comes to Haswell-E though, the only competing segment for quality chips will be server, so I think combining process maturity and less hands in the binning pot, there might be a better representation of Haswell in the enthusiast branch.

 

[YBS1]

I should say "only" because he said an inch slower, mile faster, well even with more clock speed he's about as much faster in MT as Haswell is clock for clock (not higher clocked like he is) in gaming.

You have to assume at least at this point (may change later) a slight clock speed advantage for SB over Haswell, as they do seem to clock higher on average. You and I seem to have "golden" chips, though you're not running hyper threading, so we don't know how that would effect your clocks. I'm only running a Corsair H100i, if I was still running my Swiftech loop I'm guessing I'd be over 5GHz as I'd feel comfortable enough to push 1.5v through it. In fact I'm not really a believer in disabling half a chips features in order to stabilize an overclock. So my chip runs just as Intel would ship one clocked that way in so far as power saving features, etc. That's not to say I wouldn't do such things for a specific benchmark or just to see if I could hit a certain clock, but I don't normally run that way, for that matter I don't normally run @ 4.9 either. I typically leave it at 4.6GHz.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

You have to assume at least at this point (may change later) a slight clock speed advantage for SB over Haswell, as they do seem to clock higher on average. You and I seem to have "golden" chips, though you're not running hyper threading, so we don't know how that would effect your clocks. I'm only running a Corsair H100i, if I was still running my Swiftech loop I'm guessing I'd be over 5GHz as I'd feel comfortable enough to push 1.5v through it. In fact I'm not really a believer in disabling half a chips features in order to stabilize an overclock. So my chip runs just as Intel would ship one clocked that way in so far as saving features, etc. That's not to say I wouldn't do such things for a specific benchmark or just to see if I could hit a certain clock, but I don't normally run that way, for that matter I don't normally run @ 4.9 either. I typically leave it at 4.6GHz.

Yes it's hard to gauge where the "mean average" is with these things.

For instance with my custom loop i5-2500ks my chips did 5GHz, 5.27GHz and 5.5GHz, though others were not so lucky... Same with my Haswell, evidently Newegg loves me? :awe:

If games do go 6 core optimized I will switch to Haswell-E or if Skylake has a hexcore I'd go that route instead. It's not like I'm stuck or any other user on mainstream is either, of course there are budget considerations at play as well. For me personally my money is on the GPUs, all I ask from my CPU is that it feeds them glorious information on frames so that my GPUs can utilize all their glory if they need it.

I have a lot of headroom as far as voltage goes with my chip, as the bios mature and I see more info on max vcore I might get out my custom loop and sub zero it this winter, for the lulz of course :twisted:

 

[Enigmoid]

It all depends on the intended use. SB-E wins in many MT applications while Haswell has an edge in CPU bound gaming and anything that doest scale well with more than 4C. I'd still get a 3GHz 6C/12T SB-E intead of a 4770K if they are similarly priced (probably wont be).

The problem I'm concerned with is the low clockspeed. 3930k is quite close to the 4770k in many activities (rarely better than 15-20% according to TH). These chips look like the lowest of the low in the SB-E category and I wouldn't expect the fabled SB like overclocking from them. Furthermore a decent OC will be needed to even match a 3930k (boost of 3.8 ghz). Given the cost of the LGA 2011 platform and the fact that the chipset is missing some newer features (amount of sata 6 gbps ports) this chip does not seem that viable. You are also loosing the features of the 4770k (AVX2, etc), getting higher power consumption, and losing a lot of clockspeed + IPC vs a 4770k.

 

[Sweepr]

The problem I'm concerned with is the low clockspeed. 3930k is quite close to the 4770k in many activities (rarely better than 15-20% according to TH). These chips look like the lowest of the low in the SB-E category and I wouldn't expect the fabled SB like overclocking from them. Furthermore a decent OC will be needed to even match a 3930k (boost of 3.8 ghz). Given the cost of the LGA 2011 platform and the fact that the chipset is missing some newer features (amount of sata 6 gbps ports) this chip does not seem that viable. You are also loosing the features of the 4770k (AVX2, etc), getting higher power consumption, and losing a lot of clockspeed + IPC vs a 4770k.

It all depends on 3910K's turbo (3.5-3.6GHz?) and OC capability. If it has 3930K's OC potential and they launch it at a reasonable price it should provide a nice performance boost over 4770K when both are OCed to max stable clock (air) in highly MT apps. Of course there are trade offs like higher power comsumption, older platform/chipset, absense of AVX2, lower IPC but it definitely still makes sense for some people.

 

[moonbogg]

Non of this mainstream vs enthusiast garbage would be an issue if Intel released their damn lineup in a logical way. If a 3930k is 25% faster than a 4770k, then that's pretty lame because its like you lost an entire core's worth of performance VS the newer Haswell. Sweet, its like my 3930k is a 5c/10t chip but only in heavy threaded apps, and in light threaded apps its like a 3.5c/7t chip cause its slow, hot and lethargic compared to Haswell.
I think Intel might be starting to funnel us in a more narrow direction though. Hopefully this stupid ipc vs core count dilemma goes away forever.



EDIT an hour later: Notice how I killed this thread? Its cause my infinite wisdom leaves y'all speechless.

 

[Grooveriding]

Non of this mainstream vs enthusiast garbage would be an issue if Intel released their damn lineup in a logical way. If a 3930k is 25% faster than a 4770k, then that's pretty lame because its like you lost an entire core's worth of performance VS the newer Haswell. Sweet, its like my 3930k is a 5c/10t chip but only in heavy threaded apps, and in light threaded apps its like a 3.5c/7t chip cause its slow, hot and lethargic compared to Haswell.
I think Intel might be starting to funnel us in a more narrow direction though. Hopefully this stupid ipc vs core count dilemma goes away forever.



EDIT an hour later: Notice how I killed this thread? Its cause my infinite wisdom leaves y'all speechless.

You need to put it in the correct context. 3930K/3960X were released two years ago. If you bought a 2011 setup at release you've had the best setup around for 2 years now. Even now it arguably is superior to the best chip on mainstream, even if that advantage has diminished. As far as gaming, I am almost always GPU limited rather than CPU limited. So for the newer fresh games on the scene that are taking advantage of multithreading I am getting those gains that I wouldn't with the standard chips and still getting the same performance elsewhere, if not more due to running multi-gpu.

The same was true with 1366. If you jumped on it right away it had amazing longevity. I didn't replace my 1366 rig until 2011 was available. SB was not even a consideration.

What's been flipped now is Intel releasing the enthusiast platform based around the new architecture second rather than first as well as jacking up the price. It's still playing out similarly that jumping on the new enthusiast platform when it releases is your best bet. Obviously ignoring the simple refresh; IB-E will be a waste, but HW-E will be the next big platform to get at release.

 

[schmuckley]

Dang that sucks...

1 board 1 chip 4.8GHz all day.

Some usb flaking outside the mouse/keyboard with deep C states but it's worth it since I can get down into the low 40s for idle.

uh-oh..It's Balla! :whiste: The world's biggest AMD fan :awe:
I guess you're liking the MSI?
I'm getting nothing but aggravation from x87x-oc + 4670K
I've just about suffered my last bootloop from that thing :|
Switching to g41 until new mobo or summin.

 

[jihe]

For a moment I thought you are talking the 6c/12t Westmere L5639 that's flooding ebay. You can get them for around $100, and these can be overclocked easily. I'm wondering if I should get one and an x58 board. What would be the performance like vs sandy?

 

[Gillbot]

For a moment I thought you are talking the 6c/12t Westmere L5639 that's flooding ebay. You can get them for around $100, and these can be overclocked easily. I'm wondering if I should get one and an x58 board. What would be the performance like vs sandy?

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-5600-L5639-vs-Intel-Core-i3-3220T

 

[Markfw]

For a moment I thought you are talking the 6c/12t Westmere L5639 that's flooding ebay. You can get them for around $100, and these can be overclocked easily. I'm wondering if I should get one and an x58 board. What would be the performance like vs sandy?

Thanks, I just ordered one. Lets see how it works out.

 

[Maximilian]

For a moment I thought you are talking the 6c/12t Westmere L5639 that's flooding ebay. You can get them for around $100, and these can be overclocked easily. I'm wondering if I should get one and an x58 board. What would be the performance like vs sandy?

Wow... nice deal!

 

[crashtech]

Really? I'd think even if you could get a stellar overclock out of that Xeon, which is by no means a sure bet, it's single threaded performance would still be way off compared to even a stock Sandy Bridge.

 

[YBS1]

Really? I'd think even if you could get a stellar overclock out of that Xeon, which is by no means a sure bet, it's single threaded performance would still be way off compared to even a stock Sandy Bridge.

You're almost certainly not going to be limited in you're overclock by the chip itself, but more likely by the motherboard. I've never had my Bloodrage stable with more than 216 bclk. Most can't make it that high from what I remember, though I'm sure there are a few exceptions that go even higher. So I'd be limited to right about 3888MHz, still I may just pick one of these up as that PC is relegated mostly to h264 encoding duty anyway. If only the turbo multiplier was 22 it would make an awesome little chip to play with.

 

[gbeirn]

For a moment I thought you are talking the 6c/12t Westmere L5639 that's flooding ebay. You can get them for around $100, and these can be overclocked easily. I'm wondering if I should get one and an x58 board. What would be the performance like vs sandy?

Thanks! I just got one to put in my P6T. Hope it works. Looks like no upgrading to S2011 for me!

 

[rolodomo]

You're almost certainly not going to be limited in you're overclock by the chip itself, but more likely by the motherboard. I've never had my Bloodrage stable with more than 216 bclk. Most can't make it that high from what I remember, though I'm sure there are a few exceptions that go even higher. So I'd be limited to right about 3888MHz, still I may just pick one of these up as that PC is relegated mostly to h264 encoding duty anyway. If only the turbo multiplier was 22 it would make an awesome little chip to play with.

I have an old Bloodrage X58 and was just curious, did you get yours to boot the L5639? Regardless, ordered the Westmere. Even if I the Bloodrage won't boot it, I have fall-back plans, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[TerryMathews]

I've been trying to think this through. Am I correct in thinking that this is only a good deal if you currently have a 1366 motherboard? I was looking at boards on eBay and it seems that the good ones are still +$100.

 

[YBS1]

I have an old Bloodrage X58 and was just curious, did you get yours to boot the L5639? Regardless, ordered the Westmere. Even if I the Bloodrage won't boot it, I have fall-back plans, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Oh, I don't have one. If you read my post again I was saying I would be interested in picking one up to play with. I'm running a Xeon in my Bloodrage but it's a W3520, so the Bloodrage doesn't balk at Xeon chips but I don't know about a 32nm 6 core. If I had to guess one way or another though, I'd say it would work...6 core Gulftowns do. I'd make sure you are running the P11 BIOS though before trying it, I don't remember at which point they updated to support Xeon and Gulftowns.

A quick search turned up someone having an engineering sample X5670 Westmere working.

 

[rolodomo]

Oh, I don't have one. If you read my post again I was saying I would be interested in picking one up to play with. I'm running a Xeon in my Bloodrage but it's a W3520, so the Bloodrage doesn't balk at Xeon chips but I don't know about a 32nm 6 core. If I had to guess one way or another though, I'd say it would work...6 core Gulftowns did if I remember correctly. I'd make sure you are running the P11 BIOS though before trying it, I don't remember at which point they updated to support Xeon and Gulftowns.

Yes, I agree, looking over the BIOS history Gulftown support actually came with the P10 BIOS. I remember the quantum force bios guy seemed like a real enthusiast. I'm optimistic it will boot and form the basis for a decent family desktop. If not, I wanted to build a new server anyway. Looks like there are other bargain-basement, used server parts to go with this CPU.

 

[TerryMathews]

I've been trying to think this through. Am I correct in thinking that this is only a good deal if you currently have a 1366 motherboard? I was looking at boards on eBay and it seems that the good ones are still +$100.

To contribute to this discussion further, I got a good deal on a Best Offer listing on eBay (the guy just raised his price lol) and went hunting for MBs.

Found this gem (http://3btech.net/msix5coi713m1.html?gclid=COr70JXp5bgCFUxgMgod0FkAOA) which seems made for this chip. It's got switches to manually set the QPI speed, which is what we're doing with this chip as I understand it.

 

[Maximilian]

Really? I'd think even if you could get a stellar overclock out of that Xeon, which is by no means a sure bet, it's single threaded performance would still be way off compared to even a stock Sandy Bridge.

Nah nehalems not that far behind sandy. Looking at synthetic benchmarks theres probably a noticeable difference but for gaming or whatever at the same clock speed theres nothing in it.

 

[crashtech]

Nah nehalems not that far behind sandy. Looking at synthetic benchmarks theres probably a noticeable difference but for gaming or whatever at the same clock speed theres nothing in it.

I guess my point should have included the fact that today we are comparing these retired server pieces not against SB, but Haswell, and shortly IB-E. I've been a fan of repurposed server stuff in the past, but while the performance per dollar is pretty good, and they make for a solid system, ultimately the performance just isn't there compared to a current desktop setup for what most of us really do day-to-day. For me it turned out to be not really worth the effort, but for those who think it is, rock on.

 

[Sweepr]

Will this Xeon work fine with a P6X58D Premium motherboard? Will I be able to overclock it? Its a bargain.