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Cheap but effective home security?

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wuliheron said:
The vast majority of burglars come right through the front door in broad daylight using something as simple as a crowbar. The rest tend to come through an open window or some other easy way in. Once inside they don't mess around and will turn the whole place over in a few minutes. One really loud alarm they can't easily turn off placed just about anywhere will do the trick.

A friend of mine works in home security and he recommends a shotgun with two triggers. If one shotgun shell won't stop them you've got another ready to use, but one is enough to just about blow a man's leg off. No skill required either, just aim in the general direction and try not to hurt yourself when it kicks. Especially with kids I'd think twice about buying anything small like a pistol.
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that's terrible advice, like already mentioned, shotguns must still be aimed and shooting at someones extremeties is considered ineffective.

Once a firearm is involved in any sort of self defense, if the intruder is not already running away, you better be willing to use it to completely stop the threat or else the weapon might be taken away and used against you.
 
OS said:
that's terrible advice, like already mentioned, shotguns must still be aimed and shooting at someones extremeties is considered ineffective.

Once a firearm is involved in any sort of self defense, if the intruder is not already running away, you better be willing to use it to completely stop the threat or else the weapon might be taken away and used against you.
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Agreed.

For one, the spray pattern on a shotgun at inside-the-home ranges is not as large in diameter as people imagine. Not unless you're willing to keep something of an illegally short length, which I do not recommend, well, for legal reasons.

Second, if you're prepared to shoot someone - meaning, you think your life is in danger - it's probably best to be prepared to aim center mass. It's not rational to think, "This guy is going to kill me, I better try and get a leg." I mean, if that person really is ready to kill you, taking out a limb might not be enough to stop that.

Firearms require training. Even a shotgun. It's not pull and go. I would never tell someone to just go get a gun unless they're willing to invest the time and money to be safe with it.
 
Jskid said:
I love the shot gun idea but if your not home to use it not gonna help you very much... Plus in NY there have been cases of the thief sueing the owners of the house they got hurt in! (wtf?) So in my case I would do what the Army has taught me (shoot to kill).
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According to the law, you're always shooting to kill. Discharging a firearm at someone intentionally is lethal force. Period. Leg shots and other such bullshit are for the elite special forces who train 24/7 for such things and Hollywood.

As for the OP, not well educated on security systems, but for protecting valuable documents or whatnot while you're away for cheap, I'd go with these: http://www.amazon.com/TVTimedirect-D.../dp/B000RJ1ZRG
 
sjwaste said:
Agreed.

For one, the spray pattern on a shotgun at inside-the-home ranges is not as large in diameter as people imagine. Not unless you're willing to keep something of an illegally short length, which I do not recommend, well, for legal reasons.

Second, if you're prepared to shoot someone - meaning, you think your life is in danger - it's probably best to be prepared to aim center mass. It's not rational to think, "This guy is going to kill me, I better try and get a leg." I mean, if that person really is ready to kill you, taking out a limb might not be enough to stop that.

Firearms require training. Even a shotgun. It's not pull and go. I would never tell someone to just go get a gun unless they're willing to invest the time and money to be safe with it.
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This. Not to mention firing a shotgun without hearing protection in an enclosed space is going to make your ears ring to all hell. Given that under stress you're going to be disoriented as it is, not the best option IMO.
 
Shotguns requiring training? Too much noise? Shoot the kill? What are you guys a bunch of city slickers who have seen too many movies?

I know a 60 woman who damn near blew the leg off a burglar with a shotgun. She caught him coming through the window, told him not to move while she called the cops, and he was stupid enough to move. You assholes can shoot some unarmed burglar dead for being stupid, but some of us have a little courage and charity left in us. If you need to use the damn thing more then once or twice in a lifetime I suggest moving.
 
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Something like that in your windows should act as a deterrant!
 
wuliheron said:
Shotguns requiring training? Too much noise? Shoot the kill? What are you guys a bunch of city slickers who have seen too many movies?

I know a 60 woman who damn near blew the leg off a burglar with a shotgun. She caught him coming through the window, told him not to move while she called the cops, and he was stupid enough to move. You assholes can shoot some unarmed burglar dead for being stupid, but some of us have a little courage and charity left in us. If you need to use the damn thing more then once or twice in a lifetime I suggest moving.
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Leg shots are for the movies. I'm betting that old lady was aiming center of mass and the only reason she hit his leg was because he moved or her aim was off. Oh and some states require the intruder to be in your house before you can fire, so if he was still halfway outside maybe she just knew the law and didn't want to take any chances.

Oh and FYI, firing a gun at someone is lethal force. Even if you aim intentionally for the leg, in a court of law it's considered lethal force. Have fun explaining your "courage" and "charity" to a jury dumbass.
 
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Hearing protection is just a bonus, you might suffer some minor hearing damage but so long as this isn't your job your probably ok.

A lot of double barrel shotguns have 2 different chokes, one usually has a fairly wide spread. That said, I have heard of at least a couple of law enforcement people say "Shoot to kill, that way there is only one story", this might have been jokingly, but there is some wisdom there.
 
Biftheunderstudy said:
Hearing protection is just a bonus, you might suffer some minor hearing damage but so long as this isn't your job your probably ok.

A lot of double barrel shotguns have 2 different chokes, one usually has a fairly wide spread. That said, I have heard of at least a couple of law enforcement people say "Shoot to kill, that way there is only one story", this might have been jokingly, but there is some wisdom there.
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It's not the permanent damage I'd be worried about (if I ever have to discharge a firearm indoors without protection hearing will be pretty low on my priority list) it's the immediate effects. In an enclosed space (ie: hallway) without hearing protection, a 12 gauge will probably stun you for a second or two , especially if you've got full power buckshot/slugs in it.
 
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irishScott said:
Leg shots are for the movies. I'm betting that old lady was aiming center of mass and the only reason she hit his leg was because he moved or her aim was off. Oh and some states require the intruder to be in your house before you can fire, so if he was still halfway outside maybe she just knew the law and didn't want to take any chances.

Oh and FYI, firing a gun at someone is lethal force. Even if you aim intentionally for the leg, in a court of law it's considered lethal force. Have fun explaining your "courage" and "charity" to a jury dumbass.
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She knew exactly what she was doing and this was no trick shot fired from the hip. It was a shotgun at point blank range. As for legal mumbo jumbo this isn't some TV courtroom drama dumbass.
 
irishScott said:
It's not the permanent damage I'd be worried about (if I ever have to discharge a firearm indoors without protection hearing will be pretty low on my priority list) it's the immediate effects. In an enclosed space (ie: hallway) without hearing protection, a 12 gauge will probably stun you for a second or two , especially if you've got full power buckshot/slugs in it.
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My guess is you've never done this before, its really not that bad. (I have fired a [shotgun,rifle,and muzzle loader] in a very enclosed space before)

Now, its still a bad form of cheap effective home security as it's really neither of those things.

My vote would be for the fake security company stickers, and/or the fake security camera. Leaving a light on is probably a decent deterrent as well.
 
wuliheron said:
She knew exactly what she was doing and this was no trick shot fired from the hip. It was a shotgun at point blank range. As for legal mumbo jumbo this isn't some TV courtroom drama dumbass.
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Uh, he's absolutely right. If the "legal mumbo jumbo" isn't an issue to you, pray that it never needs to be. However, there are states where he is absolutely correct. Not every state has a castle doctrine, for one. Also, if you're shooting someone in the leg, it seriously calls into question whether the shooter feared imminent death or great bodily harm, which is the legal standard for use of deadly force in self defense in many places. Depending on where you live, the police may decide to charge the shooter with a crime as well.
 
wuliheron said:
She knew exactly what she was doing and this was no trick shot fired from the hip. It was a shotgun at point blank range. As for legal mumbo jumbo this isn't some TV courtroom drama dumbass.
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You're recommending people take leg shots for the purposes of "courage" and "charity", and I'm the dumbass? Lol. I wish there was a way to Gibbs slap you across the internet.

You know that wonderful thing called the femoral artery? It's that artery that runs down the length of the leg. You hit that, guy bleeds out in 3 minutes. Charity my ass, or do you also recommend that people keep tourniquets next to their shotguns so that when they go for a leg shot they can treat the burglar/rapist/home invader afterward?
 
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Biftheunderstudy said:
My guess is you've never done this before, its really not that bad. (I have fired a [shotgun,rifle,and muzzle loader] in a very enclosed space before)

Now, its still a bad form of cheap effective home security as it's really neither of those things.

My vote would be for the fake security company stickers, and/or the fake security camera. Leaving a light on is probably a decent deterrent as well.
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Admittedly I haven't. I prize my hearing too much. 🙂 I know one guy who did and said his ears were ringing for the rest of the day. *shrug*
 
irishScott said:
You're recommending people take leg shots for the purposes of "courage" and "charity", and I'm the dumbass? Lol. I wish there was a way to Gibbs slap you across the internet.

You know that wonderful thing called the femoral artery? It's that artery that runs down the length of the leg. You hit that, guy bleeds out in 3 minutes. Charity my ass, or do you also recommend that people keep tourniquets next to their shotguns so that when they go for a leg shot they can treat the burglar/rapist/home invader afterward?
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I suppose you'd prefer to shoot them in the head and put a tourniquet on their neck. Must be one of those KKK things. These are burglars we're talking about, not supervillains in some comic book. A lot of farmers prefer to just load their shotgun with rocksalt. From a distance it still makes a lasting impression.
 
wuliheron said:
I suppose you'd prefer to shoot them in the head and put a tourniquet on their neck. Must be one of those KKK things. These are burglars we're talking about, not supervillains in some comic book. A lot of farmers prefer to just load their shotgun with rocksalt. From a distance it still makes a lasting impression.
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Can you name even one person with any experience or authority on firearms training that advocates leg shots for self defense? Just because your uncle Cleetus loads his shells with buckshot to scare off the damn kids on his grass does not make it a good idea.
 
ElMonoDelMar said:
Can you name even one person with any experience or authority on firearms training that advocates leg shots for self defense? Just because your uncle Cleetus loads his shells with buckshot to scare off the damn kids on his grass does not make it a good idea.
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The 60 year old woman I mentioned who shot the burglar is married to a guy who makes his living in home security.

My best friend in high school was a Navy Seal for 15 years. His advice would be to shoot to kill, and if they don't fall down with their legs crossed shoot them again just to be sure. That isn't self-defense against some wannabe burglar who in all likelihood is unarmed. Its murder. If you prefer to kill people, that's your personal choice.
 
Shooting someone anywhere is lethal force. If you shoot someone who is unarmed and isn't a threat, it will be murder or attempted murder. Ask any lawyer, there is no legal concept of shooting to wound.
 
ElMonoDelMar said:
Shooting someone anywhere is lethal force. If you shoot someone who is unarmed and isn't a threat, it will be murder or attempted murder. Ask any lawyer, there is no legal concept of shooting to wound.
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Point the gun at the lawyer and then ask them if they would prefer it in the head or the leg.
 
wuliheron said:
I suppose you'd prefer to shoot them in the head and put a tourniquet on their neck. Must be one of those KKK things. These are burglars we're talking about, not supervillains in some comic book. A lot of farmers prefer to just load their shotgun with rocksalt. From a distance it still makes a lasting impression.
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And now I'm a racist militant ROFL. Keep it coming heron. You've obviously never had any kind of self defense training, and I'm seriously doubting you've ever fired a gun.

How do you know what their intentions are? They're breaking into your house. It could be a burglar, it could be a home invasion, it could be some drugged up moron with a knife.

And people are people, not some special forces operator from that cartoon you watched as a kid. They die from leg shots, and most aren't skilled enough to make them consistently. Only reason your lady got away with it was because the guy was stuck in the window, probably coming through feet first. And because, as you mentioned, she loaded it with less than lethal ammo or used weak homemade .410 ratshot or something. In which case it makes even less sense to go for a leg shot where it would be less effective.

A gun above BB caliber used on someone else with intent is lethal force. Find me a court case that says otherwise. You won't.
 
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irishScott said:
And now I'm a racist militant ROFL. Keep it coming heron. You've obviously never had any kind of self defense training, and I'm seriously doubting you've ever fired a gun.

How do you know what their intentions are? They're breaking into your house. It could be a burglar, it could be a home invasion, it could be some drugged up moron with a knife.

And people are people, not some special forces operator from that cartoon you watched as a kid. They die from leg shots, and most aren't skilled enough to make them consistently. Only reason your lady got away with it was because the guy was stuck in the window, probably coming through feet first. And because, as you mentioned, she loaded it with less than lethal ammo or used weak homemade .410 ratshot or something. In which case it makes even less sense to go for a leg shot where it would be less effective.

A gun above BB caliber used on someone else with intent is lethal force. Find me a court case that says otherwise. You won't.
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Wrong on every count. For one thing she damn near took the guy's leg off and he lived. Next you'll be guessing the guy was saved by a UFO. However, please feel free to keep pulling shit out of your ass or take your anti-psychotic medicine.
 
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