Charter School: 100 Percent Success

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Charter School: 100 Percent Success
by Pat Wingert | May 31 '04

For most inner-city high schools, getting half their graduates into college would be a big deal. But the D.C. -based Seed School--the nation's first urban, public boarding school--is sending 100 percent of its first graduating class to college. Some are going to Princeton, Georgetown or Penn, just like the best students at private boarding schools. This feat is particularly impressive because admission to the 300-student coed charter school is nonselective: spots are won by lottery, and most students are three years behind academically when they start ......

Link

When are the Dems going to stop keeping inner city blacks down and give them the opportunity for a decent education by allowing school vouchers and educational choice?
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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"According to Time Magazine, the best elementary school in the nation is a charter school -- the Accelerated School in South-Central L.A."


ELEMENTARY SCHOOL OF THE YEAR:
The Accelerated School/Los Angeles (a charter school)
Like a Free Private Academy
A charter school challenges inner-city kids with tough coursework - and engages them with art and yoga

By Dan Cray

Zachary Johnson has a familiar complaint about his school: the cafeteria food stinks. In most places, such gripes fall upon deaf ears. But Zachary, 13, attends the Accelerated School in South Central Los Angeles, where the teachers are determined to make school both challenging and attractive. Says Zachary, who helped persuade administrators to add a salad bar: "The teachers actually listen to you, and you don't find that in other schools around here."

Nor do you find many inner-city schools with the academic results produced at Accelerated, which serves Grades K through 8 - and, as a charter school, is free of much of the red tape that often chokes other institutions. While some states have begun to question whether most charter schools outperform regular public schools, the Stanford Achievement Test scores at Accelerated have jumped 93% since 1997, with increases of 35% in reading and 28% in math last year alone.

School officials credit their success in part to their 97% average attendance rate, which in turn is boosted by classes that emphasize art, poetry and yoga along with arithmetic and grammar. "Unless you're fully engaging the mind and body of the children, they're not going to be as productive," says Kevin Sved, 34, the school's co-founder. Accelerated says it outperformed the community's other public schools by 270% on last year's standardized tests. "It's like a $20,000 private school without the tuition," says Mario Ortega, 37, a mortgage banker who transferred his two children there from a private academy. "I never expected to find quality education in South Central Los Angeles."

Infamous as the scene of the 1992 Los Angeles riots, South Central is populated mostly by hardworking Latino and black families. Half its residents never completed ninth grade. Forty-three percent of its households earn less than $15,000 a year. The lure of crime and drugs is always whispering just down the alley. Yet Accelerated shows that even in this setting, academic excellence is possible.

The seed for Accelerated was planted in 1992 when Sved met Johnathan Williams. Both were teachers, and Williams was a leader of their local union who teamed with Sved in a failed attempt to initiate reforms at another South Central school. But when their efforts were stymied by bureaucrats, the duo submitted to the Los Angeles Unified School District an application to start their own charter school under a new state law permitting a limited number of public schools to operate free of many district and state regulations. Skeptical administrators gave Sved and Williams just six months to round up $200,000 in start-up money and find a site for the school. After securing funding at the last moment from Wells Fargo Bank, the two hurriedly went door-to-door to recruit students. In September 1994, Accelerated opened with two teachers - Sved and Williams - and 50 students, shoehorned into a leased church social hall.

"We had to sell the people here on the idea that their kids can succeed," says Williams, 34. "This is about treating all students as gifted." The message resonated: each parent signed an agreement to spend at least 30 hours a year helping out at the school. And as their kids progressed, word spread, and the school grew. Says second-grade teacher Gillian Bazelon: "These kids are finally in an environment where a lot is expected of them, so they come to school ready to learn."

Kids at Accelerated learn by doing rather than just reading or listening. Fourth-graders study aerodynamics and the history of flight while constructing model airplanes. Second-graders try their hand at sculpting while learning about Rodin. First-graders are taught to manage personal bank accounts with play money they can use to buy toys at the student store. Rita Kanell, a first-grade teacher, recalls the joy of watching her students pepper a visiting composer with questions about Beethoven and Vivaldi.

The curriculum follows an approach pioneered by Stanford educator Henry Levin, whose 1986 "Accelerated Schools Model" called for schools to introduce slow learners to the same material as gifted students, while school officials work closely with parents. Says Sved: "We are forming a new and exciting model for urban education, and we've shown that it works."

Accelerated has its pick of accomplished teachers and links their pay to student performance. Unlike many guideline-laden public schools, Accelerated gives its teachers near-total control over instructional methods and a real voice in running the place. "For the first time in 19 years of teaching, my experience and my opinion make a difference," says kindergarten and first-grade teacher Faynessa Armand.

Sved and Williams have forged a partnership with California State University, Los Angeles, which helps with teacher training and grant applications. Wells Fargo, the school's largest donor, pumps $200,000 into Accelerated each year. And the school in 1997 received a $6.8 million office and warehouse site, donated by clothing designer Carole Little and her business partner Leonard Rabinowitz. As a result, Accelerated is that rare inner-city public school with stylized, glass-block walls and palm trees.

Today Accelerated has 11 teachers, 270 students, a waiting list of 1,200 kids and a $2.3 million operating budget. A planned $30 million expansion will add a two-story high school to the property by 2004. Graffiti-filled walls outside the school have given way to student-painted murals. Classrooms are teeming with books and artwork. And at lunchtime, Zachary is thrilled to grab food from the new salad bar.

Link
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Inner city blacks? You seem to think you know what's good for them. Here's a clue they support democrats who know that a good public school system is really what will help "inner city blacks."
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Mackinac Center for Public Policy

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Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2002

Are charter schools improving student performance? YES
Charters take more difficult students, improve faster than public schools
By Kathy Larkey-Green


Are charter schools improving student performance? As principal of Mid-Michigan Public School Academy, I have to answer with an enthusiastic "Yes, we are!" Charter schools like mine across the state of Michigan are taking a tougher cohort of students and meeting state achievement standards at a much quicker rate than traditional public schools.

Mid-Michigan Public School Academy (MMPSA) is an urban, inner-city school located on the North side of Lansing, Mich. The student body is drawn from the surrounding neighborhood and other impoverished neighborhoods around the city. Our school, one of the first charter schools established in Michigan, has been operating for six years. Its mission is to be the model of academic and personal success for the students we serve. We have developed a reputation for providing a strong reading curriculum, a rich technological and fine arts environment, and a safe atmosphere. We require students to wear uniforms and have a strict but fair discipline policy aimed at encouraging our children to focus on learning. Our Positive Behavior Support approach provides us with counseling and guidance services, enabling our student body to avoid many of the behavioral problems that beset other public schools.

The demographics of the MMPSA student body are crucial in judging our success. It is comprised of transitory, economically challenged families, with a high percentage of parents who did not graduate from high school, and many with uncertain job status. Our families are predominantly low income, with 74 percent of our students qualifying for the free or reduced breakfast and lunch programs this year. Our families are racially diverse: 48 percent are African American, 23 percent are Caucasian, 15 percent are Hispanic, 12 percent are multi-racial, and 2 percent are of other ethnicities. Our demographic profile clearly differs from state and local district averages; a difference affecting expected academic achievement since low-income and minority students often have lower academic achievement.

Media coverage often portrays charter schools as having achievement test scores that are lower than surrounding public school districts. But in our case, as with most charter schools across the state, test scores are rising at a faster rate in reading, math and writing than those scores are rising in surrounding public schools. When comparing charter school achievement with that of other public schools, what should be examined is the increase in test performance over time, taking into consideration demographic differences that affect achievement expectations.

In fact, 2001 data from the Education Trust, U.S. Department of Education and Michigan Department of Education show 4th-grade charter student test scores meeting state reading standards at twice the rate of other public school students. Fourth-grade charter school students were meeting state math standards at more than 56-times the rate of students at other public schools. And 7th graders in charter schools were meeting state reading standards at nearly twice the rate of their traditional public school counterparts. (For more information, click here.)

Mid-Michigan Public School Academy has made a commitment to students and families to continue raising test scores and improving academic successes notwithstanding the socioeconomic obstacles we face.

Due to this commitment, our school was recently awarded a Governor's Golden Apple Award for marked improvement on Michigan Educational Assessment Program (MEAP) tests.

We reach out to many impoverished children who have not done well in traditional public school districts. Contrary to current media coverage, charter schools are causing the local public districts to sit up and take notice. The healthy competition that schools like ours create demands better performance from all schools. Much like an athlete whose spirited effort quickens the pace of the entire group, charters are having a positive impact on Michigan's education system. The competition is making us all stronger! In my 20 years of educational experience, I have never seen such teamwork and commitment in a school situation. Charter schools are improving the educational achievement not just for their own, but for all the children of our great state.

Kathy Larkey-Green is principal of Mid-Michigan Public School Academy in Lansing, Mich.

Link
 

jackschmittusa

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Apr 16, 2003
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Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,571
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?

My public school kicked ass.. what are you talking about?
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Charter schools: A beacon of hope for California public education

By Caprice Young
September 19, 2004

PEGGY PEATTIE / Union-Tribune
Leanea Edmundson (left) and Esmeralda Chavira (center) were eager to answer a question first thing in the morning in their sixth-grade class at King/Chavez Academy of Excellence. A charter school in Barrio Logan, King/Chavez has more than tripled the student achievement gains made in the broader public school system.

Here's an offer to consider ? an offer that is helping reinvigorate public education, one public school at a time. Consider that our public school teachers are working harder than ever, but are continually thwarted by an Education Code that stifles teachers' innovation, creativity and their ability to make a difference for the students they serve. Teachers today are treated more like political footballs than the highly capable professionals they really are. It is no wonder that many are frustrated: today's Education Code has grown thicker than the federal tax code.

But there is plenty of hope afoot; California's promising public charter school movement offers public school teachers the opportunity to design and lead high-powered public schools that are free from many cumbersome rules that hold back public education. This new freedom is leading to improved student achievement.

In 1992, California became the second state in the nation to pass a charter school law as a way of empowering educators and their local communities to create a new type of public school, one that is tailored to the individual needs of the students they serve.

Charter schools retain the best of what public education has to offer: they are free, nonsectarian and open to all students who apply. And rather than being crushed by the litany of stifling regulations, they are held accountable for what matters most: improved student achievement.

Since California passed its charter school law, over 530 public charter schools have opened their doors to serve more than 180,000 students. More than 7,000 public school teachers from Chula Vista to Eureka have joined this thriving movement to either lead a new charter school, or to teach at one. After decades of trying to reform public education from within, many of these teachers are now proving that all students can succeed.

Birth of a charter school Charter schools are tuition-free public schools that operate independently within the public school system. They allow teachers and community groups to create their own public school, giving them flexibility to decide their own curriculum, staffing and budgets with the goal of improving student achievement. This fall, a total of 537 public charter schools are in operation in California, serving approximately 180,000 students.
How a charter school is formed

Recruit a team: No one can start a charter school alone. Many charter schools are started by parents, teachers and community leaders. The process from planning to opening the school usually takes about 18 months. Charter school founders will need expertise in many areas, particularly in curriculum and instruction.

Develop a plan: The plan for the school must include its mission and vision. The plan also must include how the development process will be financed, the educational focus, enrollment and staffing levels, and intentions on facilities.

Petition process: Applicants must meet the state's 16 "required elements" for starting a charter school. The California Department of Education provides information at http://www.cde.ca.gov/ sp/cs/re/csabout.asp. A "charter" is the contract that the community group enters into with a local school district.

Approval: Applicants work with their local school district for approval. Interested parents and teachers sign a petition indicating their desire to enroll their students or teach at the new school. Applicants often seek support from community leaders, the authorizing district and elected school board members.

Opening the school: Before the opening, successful applicants must create a school governing board, recruit students, set up an instructional program and secure a facility. Charter schools by law must accept every student who applies. If a charter school reaches enrollment capacity, then it must offer a lottery when accepting new students.

Workshops titled "How to Start a Charter School" are held periodically. Information on workshops or starting a charter school is available from the California Charter Schools Association, (866) 415-2272.

When I served as president of the Los Angeles Unified School District, the second largest school district in the nation, I witnessed first-hand too many educators who were tired of hearing from a bureaucracy that was comfortable with low expectations. "Some students just can't learn," the system would say. "Many of these kids are poor and come from different backgrounds; you have to have realistic expectations."

Uncomfortable with these excuses, school leaders at more than 80 Los Angeles County public schools have gradually decided to strike out on their own to push for systemic change by creating their own public charter schools. In partnership with their local, largely inner-city communities, these educators are defying conventional wisdom and creating public schools that are closing the achievement gap.

More than 55 public charter schools have opened within San Diego County alone, making it one of California's leaders in transforming public education. While all of these schools are led by committed educators dedicated to improving student achievement, they are all unique in how they get there. Consider some San Diego County examples:

Albert Einstein Academy, now housed in Rolando but seeking a larger facility, uses a dual-language immersion program, teaching both German and English with a curriculum based on the International Baccalaureate program. Its vibrant atmosphere has engaged students and parents alike, and it is validated by its high student achievement scores.

In the inner-city Barrio Logan neighborhood, the King/Chavez Academy of Excellence charter school has achieved impressive results for its 400 students. With small classes, individualized learning programs, strong teaching, and support from the local community, King/Chavez has more than tripled the student achievement gains made in the broader public school system.

Barona Indian Charter School, a newer charter school located on the reservation, is dedicated to closing the achievement gap for its underserved students. Its teaching staff is turning dedication into results: Barona's 125-point jump on the state's Academic Performance Index (API) made it one of the highest improving public schools in all of California.

San Diego's public charter high schools are equally as impressive. In fact, three of the top four performing high schools in San Diego are charter high schools.

River Valley Charter School, the top performing public high school in San Diego County, combines instruction in core subjects with student-selected programs that take place off-campus, proving that a small high school with added individual programs can succeed.

The teachers at High Tech High, another high-performer, give their students real-world experience by requiring them to complete a semester-long internship with a local business.

Perhaps best known is the Preuss Charter School at UC San Diego, the first public charter high school to be located on a college campus. Preuss specifically serves underprivileged, largely minority students who will be the first in their family to attend college. Its teachers have created a school with rigorous academics, a longer school day, and a school year one month longer than other San Diego schools. All these attributes have resulted in some of the highest test scores in San Diego. Preuss' first graduating class of 55 students is headed to some of the most prestigious four-year universities in the nation.

These individual success stories aside, charter schools are becoming more and more accepted as vital to the state's efforts to reform public education.

Recent studies by major universities have shown that charter schools are improving student achievement at a faster rate than the broader public school system, especially on behalf of low-income students. According to this year's state-sponsored evaluation of charter schools by California's nonpartisan Legislative Analyst, charter schools "are meeting original legislative intent ? expanding families' choices, encouraging parental involvement, increasing teacher satisfaction and raising academic achievement, particularly for certain groups of disadvantaged students." And, charter schools are achieving these results with fewer resources.

A recent report by the American Federation of Teachers, prominently covered in The New York Times, attempted to show that nationwide, charter school performance is lagging behind that of regular public schools. But the AFT's own numbers actually show that California's charter schools are doing better in reading as well as in math than the broader public school system. And that's before adjusting for demographics.

These achievement gains have come even while California's charter schools are educating a higher percentage of lower-income students and those with learning problems than regular public schools. When a new charter school opens, it's not the satisfied parents that enroll their children into another option. It's the parents whose children are being shortchanged who find charter schools so attractive.

The AFT simply lumped in other states that just started opening charter schools within the last couple of years. California's charter school movement, which has been up and running for over a decade, has had more time to work for these students. Charter schools in California that have been around for five years or more, like many of San Diego's thriving schools, are significantly outperforming California's broader public school system. Given time, these other states may erase their achievement gaps as well.

For these parents whose underserved children attend these innovative public schools, charter schools have provided them with a lifeboat to better achievement. They have empowered many parents who might not be able to afford private school with a public school choice. If a regular public school is not meeting the needs of a particular student, then parents today can enroll their child into a public charter school that may better meet their needs.

But today, the success of charter schools isn't just benefiting a few underserved students. As this movement grows, charter schools are sharing their successes with the broader public school system so that all students benefit.

In an effort to emulate charter schools' successes, school district administrations are loosening up the strings and red tape on teachers in traditional public schools.

In Oakland, for example, a group of small charter schools is emerging as a beacon of hope within a school district plagued by financial problems. In response, the district administration is changing two of its low performing large and impersonal public schools into eight small public school campuses, offering more flexibility for its teachers and a more personal approach to public schooling.

In San Francisco, where 10 percent of high school students are enrolled in charter high schools, the school district responded by creating its "Dream Schools" program. The innovative program gives three of the district's lowest-performing public schools some of the attributes of its charter schools, including more site-based control for their teaching staffs, longer school days and a more rigorous college-prep curriculum.

This fall, San Diego Unified is following the lead of High Tech High and the Preuss charter schools by boldly converting three of its larger public schools into more than a dozen "charter-like" academies. As the Union-Tribune recently reported, "The idea is to give students a personalized education that appeals to their interests, fosters strong bonds with teachers and presents less opportunity to slip through the cracks."

With California's increasingly diverse student population, a one-size-fits-all system of public education no longer meets the needs of all of our students, or the teachers who serve them. But California's public charter schools are quickly demonstrating the power of allowing public school teachers to make and act on decisions at the local level that are in the best interest of their students. The charter school movement is defying a culture of low expectations and is effectively proving to be our most promising path to genuine reform of our system of public education. Moreover, it is showing that empowering teachers helps students succeed.

Young is president and chief executive officer of the California Charter Schools Association. She formerly was board president of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

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Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: TuxDave
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?

My public school kicked ass.. what are you talking about?

Obviously, some public schools perform well academically, but many don't, especially those in the inner city.

Did you go to an inner city public school?
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,571
3
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: TuxDave
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?

My public school kicked ass.. what are you talking about?

Obviously, some public schools perform well academically, but many don't, especially those in the inner city.

Did you go to an inner city public school?

Nope. So if many inner school public schools do badly, but many others do well, then we should still scrap the public school system?
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,832
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Actually there was a study reported on a month or so back where comparing the results of ALL charter schools against all public schools. Surprisingly the charter schools came up short-lower results across the board as compared to even inner city public schools. As a liberal completely in support of the concept of charter schools (which are not the voucher system, Rip, you are mistaken) I'm hoping this trend reverses and more turn out like the two Rip mentioned.

People (I don't think it really has a thing to do with political bent) are against voucher systems as they will strip public schools bare of the good students and funds, and make them far worse than they are now.

NPR did a feature on this-I'm too lazy tonight to track it down but if you're interested it's out there.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
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Calling me a liberal huh? Worship the public school system? That's quite a leap. I went to school in the 50s and 60s. The public school system worked then, and could be made to work again. You acted up, you got your ass paddled. For most of us, that meant another one at home. You behaved yourself, you learned. Flunk the material, get to repeat the grade (great peer pressure not to do it more than once too). Want a diploma? Get passing grades in 12th grade courses. In Ohio, you can get a diploma by passing a test that shows 9th grade compitancy. We've been trying new crap for 30 years or more and nothing worked like the old way. Charter schools are just more new crap.
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Calling me a liberal huh? Worship the public school system? That's quite a leap. I went to school in the 50s and 60s. The public school system worked then, and could be made to work again. You acted up, you got your ass paddled. For most of us, that meant another one at home. You behaved yourself, you learned. Flunk the material, get to repeat the grade (great peer pressure not to do it more than once too). Want a diploma? Get passing grades in 12th grade courses. In Ohio, you can get a diploma by passing a test that shows 9th grade compitancy. We've been trying new crap for 30 years or more and nothing worked like the old way. Charter schools are just more new crap.

We don't live in the '50s and 60s anymore. A lot has changed since then.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Charter School: 100 Percent Success

When are the Dems going to stop keeping inner city blacks down and give them the opportunity for a decent education by allowing school vouchers and educational choice?

When republicans allow enough funding to send ALL the kids to attend privates. Even those with special needs, blind, disabled, who require massive attention and cooresonding dollars for that attention.

Proposals I hear are around $3500 a year...nothing really unless you send your kids to a private like catholic school where the nuns work for free and it's subsidized by the Church.

I guess something is better than nothing I get back for my prop taxes... I'm all for vouchers.
 
Jan 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?

Why do you divide the world into us and them? Grow up a bit Rip. This is an interesting topic, and there is no need to turn it into a political war.

But back on topic, the first school is actually a boarding school, not exactly a solution to inner city school systems that are already underfunded and understaffed. A charter school may have a little more flexibility in how they spend there money, but unless they write for school reform grants or recieve additional funding from somewhere they are going to have the same realities as their non-charter counterparts. In fact, there was a recent article in the NYT which reported some findings from a study showing charter school as performing worse than public schoos.

 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Charter School: 100 Percent Success

When are the Dems going to stop keeping inner city blacks down and give them the opportunity for a decent education by allowing school vouchers and educational choice?

When republicans allow enough funding to send ALL the kids to attend privates. Even those with special needs, blind, disabled, who require massive attention and cooresonding dollars for that attention.

Proposals I hear are around $3500 a year...nothing really unless you send your kids to a private like catholic school where the nuns work for free and it's subsidized by the Church.

I guess something is better than nothing I get back for my prop taxes... I'm all for vouchers.

I don't think there are many nuns teaching anymore.

I send my kids to a Catholic school. It costs me about $4,000/kid. At schools where there's an associated church, it's about $2,500/yr.

In my area, the Catholic schools outperform the public schools.
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?

Why do you divide the world into us and them?

Because the issue is usually drawn along partisan lines.
 
Jan 18, 2001
14,465
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?

Why do you divide the world into us and them?

Because the issue is usually drawn along partisan lines.

Really? Care to develop that idea a bit and provide some sort of logic or evidence?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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I pay $2700 ea. And I'd say it's about 50/50 at the primary school. I'm going to have to dig in the pocket come HS where the figure bumps up to $8500:( Hardy $3500 will cover it and I live in one of the wealthest tax base in America....expect less a check from other areassince it's based on property taxes.

Also, not everyone wants to send thier youth to subsidized religious education. Have you checked the price of monisori or military education? Whoppers.

And you still hav'nt addresed how the special needs or disiplinary problem students should be handled.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Rip complex questions require complex answers. Just eliminating the public school system will not fix everything. This voucher "school" can be every selective with who they choose. Kicking out underperformers and not admitting those who don't "make the grade" or disabled. Naturally thier results will be superior.

Like with most things, I believe in balance. Maybe we should hold privates, since they are using public monies in a voucher scheme, to the same rules the public school has to abide by?

Meaning they have to admit and educate all comers.

 

klah

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2002
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Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
But back on topic, the first school is actually a boarding school, not exactly a solution to inner city school systems that are already underfunded..

Underfunded? Are you kidding me? Let's look at some facts

Public Education Finances Report
http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/school/02f33pub.pdf

Washington D.C. has the wealthiest government school system in America at over $13,000 per student. Their graduation rate is barely above 50%. How much money do you think they need? $13,100? $20,000?

Maybe they should have elected Marion Berry to the school board instead of the Ward 8 council :roll:
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
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I don't care how you cut it. The public school system is crime against humanity. I used to call public schools the public daycare system, but then I realized that they are actually worse. Public schools are actually just glorified prisons.

Let's do the math. Free + compulsory = prison time. Free + compulsory = public education. Public education = prison time!
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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It ain't money IN WDC case, but lack of discipline and involved parents... a cultural break down is the best way to describe it.

There are two ways to educate a child. Make them fear you (disapline) or make them love themselves (proactive parents) the inner city community is lacking both these.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Rip complex questions require complex answers. Just eliminating the public school system will not fix everything.

You are right, ending public education won't fix everything, but it sure as hell will fix education. Let's face it, as soon as the government got involved in education things went downhill fast. This is basically the story of what happens to ANYTHING when Big Brother gets involved. This is not a complex issue, the public schools push good schools out of the market by offering "free" education, severely limiting a middle class or even poor parent's options. This drags EVERYONE down to the government's piss poor standards. If all schools were private, parents could choose exactly the kind of education they wanted for their kids, end of story. Or, if the compulsion laws were repealed, kids could get an alternative education in private trade schools.

 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?

Listen, idiot, there may be one or two successful charter schools, but on the whole charter schools trail public schools.

Here's a question; why do knee jerk Republicans worship a failed ideology of privatization of every governments service, even in the face of common sense and objective facts?