Charter School: 100 Percent Success

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Zebo
Rip complex questions require complex answers. Just eliminating the public school system will not fix everything.

You are right, ending public education won't fix everything, but it sure as hell will fix education. Let's face it, as soon as the government got involved in education things went downhill fast. This is basically the story of what happens to ANYTHING when Big Brother gets involved. This is not a complex issue, the public schools push good schools out of the market by offering "free" education, severely limiting a middle class or even poor parent's options. This drags EVERYONE down to the government's piss poor standards. If all schools were private, parents could choose exactly the kind of education they wanted for their kids, end of story. Or, if the compulsion laws were repealed, kids could get an alternative education in private trade schools.

Nothing wrong with some public schools. VT has the toughest public schools and guess what they are also top in SAT and college acceptance rate. More very successful adults attended public schooling than not. Not only that, you limit opporutnity for poor children whose parents pick grapes, minimum wage earners or whatever and definity can't afford any private school no matter how much the catholic church subsidizes it. But I know you have a world vison of "too bad so sad for them" as long as it's no redistribution going on to fix it so that may be ok. Fortunatly the majority of americans don't feel that way.. Vouchers is a nice compromise.

 

[preslove]

The OP mentioned one successful charter school, well here's sixty that failed. Guess what happens when a shady businessman drives his schools out of business? The public school system has to clean up the mess.

Here's a snipit of scandal:

The disintegration of the California Charter Academy, the largest chain of publicly financed but privately run charter schools to slide into insolvency, offers a sobering picture of what can follow. Thousands of parents were forced into a last-minute search for alternate schools, and some are still looking; many teachers remain jobless; and students' academic records are at risk in abandoned school sites across California.

Investigators are sifting through records seeking causes of the disaster, which has raised new questions about how charter schools are regulated.

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Charter schools are crap in Ohio. Waste of money and a disservice to the students and their families. Stories all the time about: missing funds, failure to meet state qualifications, no "special needs" services, poor test results, failure to file required state reports, etc.. Sorry, but they are a joke here.

Why do liberals worship the failed public school system?

My public school kicked ass.. what are you talking about?

Thanks for making his point.

 

[Yolner]

What inner city blacks need is less drugs, guns, rap, alcohol and more studying. In my high school 90% of black kids just didnt care about school. All they did was get into fights and smoke pot. Its not the public schools its the black culture.

 

[Gravity]

I have two kids, pay $5k each for private, sectarian (Christian) school. I also run the largest juvenile detention center in LA and have worked with troubled teens for 17 years.

IMO, public education has failed mostly because of the teacher's lobby. The NEA is the most liberal and strongest lobbying group in our country. The other major factor in their abysmal performance is that it is a lumbering and ineffective bureacracy that isn't interested in your child's learning, it's interested in it's own political survival. Since if feels that it won't be abolished or replaced, it has little incentive to change.

If there was literal competition for the business of educating our youth, the system would implode and those within it that are competent and interested would be picked up by the savvy educating businesses. Those that were nothing more than lifetime chair rollers would be relegated to retirement, picketing or otherwise different vocations.

As long as there is public education there will be failing schools with systems weren't meant to be reformed.

When you recognize that you are facing a dragon, you don't try to negotiate with it to stop breathing fire on your children, you cut off it's head.

Privatize all education, disassemble the machine and let private enterprise take over. There is more than enough money already to get the job done.

 

[Zebo]

The NEA is the most liberal and strongest lobbying group in our country. The other major factor in their abysmal performance is that it is a lumbering and ineffective bureacracy that isn't interested in your child's learning, it's interested in it's own political survival
----------------------
They don't sound too powerful nor effective. I don't know to many educated people that would put up with 30 kids for eight hours a day and get paid crap as they are. I mean from what I hear it's a BS plus another year of credentializing yourself will get you about 26K in Orange County. Whatever.... An enry level accountant or nurse get above 50K in the same area. Hell a prison guard makes more with a HS ed and probably a record or he would have become a PO in the first place which pays about double.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: klah

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
But back on topic, the first school is actually a boarding school, not exactly a solution to inner city school systems that are already underfunded..

Underfunded? Are you kidding me? Let's look at some facts

Public Education Finances Report
http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/school/02f33pub.pdf

Washington D.C. has the wealthiest government school system in America at over $13,000 per student. Their graduation rate is barely above 50%. How much money do you think they need? $13,100? $20,000?

Maybe they should have elected Marion Berry to the school board instead of the Ward 8 council :roll:

I wasn't defending any particular district or board member, I was merely pointing out that no public district would be able to afford district wide boarding schools. If they tried to implement boarding schools district wide 20,000 wouldn't even come close.

You're point is well taken though, schools do have considerable resources at their disposals. And certainly there are ineffeciencies adn even graft in any district. I was simply pointing out the obvious fact that there is no way in hell any district, much less a needy one, would be able to do boarding schools as a system wide program to improve education.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Zebo
Rip complex questions require complex answers. Just eliminating the public school system will not fix everything.

You are right, ending public education won't fix everything, but it sure as hell will fix education. Let's face it, as soon as the government got involved in education things went downhill fast. This is basically the story of what happens to ANYTHING when Big Brother gets involved. This is not a complex issue, the public schools push good schools out of the market by offering "free" education, severely limiting a middle class or even poor parent's options. This drags EVERYONE down to the government's piss poor standards. If all schools were private, parents could choose exactly the kind of education they wanted for their kids, end of story. Or, if the compulsion laws were repealed, kids could get an alternative education in private trade schools.

Nothing wrong with some public schools. VT has the toughest public schools and guess what they are also top in SAT and college acceptance rate. More very successful adults attended public schooling than not. Not only that, you limit opporutnity for poor children whose parents pick grapes, minimum wage earners or whatever and definity can't afford any private school no matter how much the catholic church subsidizes it. But I know you have a world vison of "too bad so sad for them" as long as it's no redistribution going on to fix it so that may be ok. Fortunatly the majority of americans don't feel that way.. Vouchers is a nice compromise.

No matter what performance level a particular public school is at, all public schools are fundamentally immoral institutions. Their existence severely distorts what would be an otherwise free market for education. Furthermore, public "education" is simply another government racket. The government still levies property taxes on parents who don't send their kids to public schools and who don't want anything to do with public education.

You have this iron clad premise that all children should go to school. This is a simply ridiculous position. Your idea of education is not everyone's idea of education. Like I said before, some people are better suited for trade schools, or working for their parent's business. In fact, the idea that every child should receive this "wonderful general education," where they learn a little bit of superficial information about all these different subjects out in academia land is a relatively new idea, and rather absurd.

 

[chrisms]

I think the public education system is great. As a student I hated the long days (where we'd sit around doing nothing, but still couldn't leave until 2:05 for some reason), but fundamentally they work. If you are a hard worker, you will succeed. You will get good grades and move on to college, and if you read up on subjects on your own you will be ready for any college. Those who don't work hard end up in manual labor.

The public school system doesn't hold your hand. Only those with enough brains to take control of their future have a good one, and the rest get to flip burgers the rest of their lives.