Chaos Theory: SM2.0 vs SM3.0

[VIAN]

http://www.simhq.com/_technology/technology_058a.html

 

[mwmorph]

I really think HDR was a mistake to implement in a dark game like this. brightens everything up too much. Not right for the atmosphere of the game. Nice article though.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I really think HDR was a mistake to implement in a dark game like this. brightens everything up too much. Not right for the atmosphere of the game. Nice article though.

It works perfectly imo.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I really think HDR was a mistake to implement in a dark game like this. brightens everything up too much. Not right for the atmosphere of the game. Nice article though.

It works perfectly imo.

bah! seeing stuff is overrated. Besides, that's what nightvision and infared are for in SCCT. The darker it is, the better the atmosphere and tension(unless it's insainely dark like a DOOMIII level of laughably dark monster closets). I mean, keep everything else. Diaplacement mapping, parallax mapping, soft shadows, etc but with HDR, everything is just too bright and objects look too shink. It works well for FarCry and outdoorsy bbright enviroments but it does not belong in a darker title.

hehe Diamond member!

 

[Drayvn]

Well i dont know if youve played the game with HDR, but believe me it doesnt make things too bright or too shiny, its still pretty damn dark.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
Well i dont know if youve played the game with HDR, but believe me it doesnt make things too bright or too shiny, its still pretty damn dark.

tell you the truth, no. I run a geforce2 ultra and my friends run a 9800pro. we cant afford all this newfangled 6xxx and 7xxx stuff.

 

[Creig]

It's nice to see that developers aren't as gung-ho to leave SM2.0 behind as some people have been going on about. There are simply WAY too many SM2.0 equipped systems out there to simply abandon at the appearance of SM3.0.

It's no different than those people who claimed that AGP would be dead 3 months after PCI-E became available. Although things can change quickly in the computer industry, standards have a habit of being slow to be adopted and are even slower to be retired.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Creig
It's nice to see that developers aren't as gung-ho to leave SM2.0 behind as some people have been going on about. There are simply WAY too many SM2.0 equipped systems out there to simply abandon at the appearance of SM3.0.

It's no different than those people who claimed that AGP would be dead 3 months after PCI-E became available. Although things can change quickly in the computer industry, standards have a habit of being slow to be adopted and are even slower to be retired.

Rumour is this work for the patch to enable SM2 was done by ATi

And the fact this SM2 update only works with ATi cards, which gives credence to that rumour.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Creig
It's nice to see that developers aren't as gung-ho to leave SM2.0 behind as some people have been going on about. There are simply WAY too many SM2.0 equipped systems out there to simply abandon at the appearance of SM3.0.

It's no different than those people who claimed that AGP would be dead 3 months after PCI-E became available. Although things can change quickly in the computer industry, standards have a habit of being slow to be adopted and are even slower to be retired.

Rumour is this work for the patch to enable SM2 was done by ATi

And the fact this SM2 update only works with ATi cards, which gives credence to that rumour.

well SM2/DX9 dosent work too well on fx cards anyway.

 

[Creig]

That's kinda lame, then. I would have hoped that it would be a generic SM2.0 profile and not just ATI specific. I wonder if it was necessary to make it ATI specific in order to work or if it was done on purpose. Maybe somebody will be able to adapt it to work on NV hardware as well.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Creig
That's kinda lame, then. I would have hoped that it would be a generic SM2.0 profile and not just ATI specific. I wonder if it was necessary to make it ATI specific in order to work or if it was done on purpose. Maybe somebody will be able to adapt it to work on NV hardware as well.

I think it was that Ubi couldnt be bothered to do anything about the SM2 stuff, as they probably sold a lot of SC:CT already anyway and thought that the SM2 stuff wouldnt help sales... Tho it would have made their customers happy, but thats not how companies work

But anyway, ATi took it upon themselves to create this SM2 HDR and other stuff patch and then sent it off to Ubi and Ubi intergrated it.

Of course this is how i see the logic of how this turned out and why it only works on ATi stuff.

Or i could be totally wrong and the reason it only works is maybe because its SM2.0b unless i missed someone using it on a 9800?

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I really think HDR was a mistake to implement in a dark game like this. brightens everything up too much. Not right for the atmosphere of the game. Nice article though.

It works perfectly imo.

HDR is terrible unless you like playing without AA.

It also causes a big performance drop on the 6 series.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I really think HDR was a mistake to implement in a dark game like this. brightens everything up too much. Not right for the atmosphere of the game. Nice article though.

It works perfectly imo.

HDR is terrible unless you like playing without AA.

It also causes a big performance drop on the 6 series.

Gee, back from vacation and the "Bouzouki doesn't like nV only features" tape is still looping.

How many times are you going to say this? You'll never figure it out apparently:
AA, AF, HDR, Soft Shadows, displacement/parallax mapping are all image quality enhancing features.
Some you can't run with others on current hardware.


Some people would actually have you believe it's better not to have the choice at all than have to run one or the other. These people work for ATI, or bought their primitive cards and want to convince themselves they didn't screw up.

Tough luck- you did.
:beer:

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I really think HDR was a mistake to implement in a dark game like this. brightens everything up too much. Not right for the atmosphere of the game. Nice article though.

It works perfectly imo.

HDR is terrible unless you like playing without AA.

It also causes a big performance drop on the 6 series.

Got an X850XT-PE and yes it doesnt have AA but still i like it. You might find it terrible, but i like so nah nah

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I really think HDR was a mistake to implement in a dark game like this. brightens everything up too much. Not right for the atmosphere of the game. Nice article though.

It works perfectly imo.

HDR is terrible unless you like playing without AA.

It also causes a big performance drop on the 6 series.

Gee, back from vacation and the "Bouzouki doesn't like nV only features" tape is still looping.

How many times are you going to say this? You'll never figure it out apparently:
AA, AF, HDR, Soft Shadows, displacement/parallax mapping are all image quality enhancing features.
Some you can't run with others on current hardware.


Some people would actually have you believe it's better not to have the choice at all than have to run one or the other. These people work for ATI, or bought their primitive cards and want to convince themselves they didn't screw up.

Tough luck- you did.
:beer:

Do us all a favor and go back on Vacation.

First off, HDR is not a Nvidia feature, you can use it on ATI cards, I never mentioned Nvidia.

Rollo loves running his GTX's without AA/AF, instead, he pimps Softshadows instead.

Maybe some of you can play without AA/AF but I cant, I can sure do without Rollo's mightly softshadows though.

Then again, you used to think we didn't need AA/AF or high resolutions around the 9700 days.

I guess your the tape thats looping.

 

[Drayvn]

Am i missing something but why do you keep adding AF as well?

I like HDR and AA, i just hope they can do the 2 together some day, but for now, since ive used AA for some time, i dont mind changing it for HDR just to see what HDR is like. After a while i might change back. At least i have the option.

Tho i still love my dear sweet X850XT-PE.... Anyone want mine now...

 

[mwmorph]

I have a question: If i have a 9800 pro, will i be ble to run it or is it 2.0b only? I myself love Soft shadows and parallax mapping. I think that adds to the game by a lot.
will it run 10x7 no aa sm 2.0 decetly?

 

[fstime]

HDR = No AA, performance drops on last gen cards in Farcry, somtimes unplayable, especially at high res.

Softshadows = No AF

 

[mwmorph]

really? softshadows disable af? why must it force me to make such a horrible decision?

 

[fstime]

Well yes, with Rollo telling us how good softshadows is, he always fails to mention the biggest downside to it.

I have no idea why he brings up NV when I say HDR is terrible imo when it's also an ATI feature.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I have a question: If i have a 9800 pro, will i be ble to run it or is it 2.0b only? I myself love Soft shadows and parallax mapping. I think that adds to the game by a lot.
will it run 10x7 no aa sm 2.0 decetly?

I dont know if SC:CT is only SM2.0b or just SM2. Try it out see if it works... tell us what its like!

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
HDR = No AA, performance drops on last gen cards in Farcry, somtimes unplayable, especially at high res.

Softshadows = No AF

So why when i put Soft Shadows on AF is still set at x16.

So where did you hear that this turns of AF?

Every benchmark ive read has never pointed out that Soft Shadows switches off AF...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: mwmorph
I really think HDR was a mistake to implement in a dark game like this. brightens everything up too much. Not right for the atmosphere of the game. Nice article though.

It works perfectly imo.

HDR is terrible unless you like playing without AA.

It also causes a big performance drop on the 6 series.

Gee, back from vacation and the "Bouzouki doesn't like nV only features" tape is still looping.

How many times are you going to say this? You'll never figure it out apparently:
AA, AF, HDR, Soft Shadows, displacement/parallax mapping are all image quality enhancing features.
Some you can't run with others on current hardware.


Some people would actually have you believe it's better not to have the choice at all than have to run one or the other. These people work for ATI, or bought their primitive cards and want to convince themselves they didn't screw up.

Tough luck- you did.
:beer:

Do us all a favor and go back on Vacation.

First off, HDR is not a Nvidia feature, you can use it on ATI cards, I never mentioned Nvidia.

Rollo loves running his GTX's without AA/AF, instead, he pimps Softshadows instead.

Maybe some of you can play without AA/AF but I cant, I can sure do without Rollo's mightly softshadows though.

Then again, you used to think we didn't need AA/AF or high resolutions around the 9700 days.

I guess your the tape thats looping.

Whatever you say BFG10K....errrr, Bouzouki. LOL- I'm sure everyone really cares about what I was saying or doing 3 years ago?
:roll:

It's pretty sad how you guys can't get over whining about 9700 days. What's next? Attacking my stance on the 8086? :roll:

I see you've got a 7800 now Bouzouki, why the crying about the features? It would be nice if it did that cool shutter glasses 3d effect without the glasses and headache too- but whats the point of whining that it doesn't?

You just exist to flame nVidia. You have the best gaming card in the free world and you bitch the HDR doesn't work with AA. Pretty sad.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Well yes, with Rollo telling us how good softshadows is, he always fails to mention the biggest downside to it.

I have no idea why he brings up NV when I say HDR is terrible imo when it's also an ATI feature.

You don't know much about it then. There are no games that use ATI HDR? :roll:

The fact ATI cards could do a cheesier more limited form of HDR isn't relevant as no games use theirs.

 

[nRollo]

Sigh, best to read the article more carefully. :roll: