Changing jobs....

[IndyColtsFan]

They are all different forms of outsourcing. What I'm getting at is, if you outsource the very bread and butter of your business, then why even be in that business in first place? Why bother running an IT company if you're just putting everything in the cloud?

Again, you’re thinking small. No one said “running an IT company.” “IT companies” make up a very small portion of companies. And even still, there are entire “IT companies” whose sole purpose is to consult on the use and implementation of cloud systems.

I’m a very senior architect who consults, and I’ve pushed hard for us to eliminate all of the offerings in my practice which result in an on-premise end state. It’s not worth our effort for the very few companies who want that and it’s not good advice to push on-premise end states outside very few use cases. On-premise costs more, isn’t as reliable, and has much more overhead in terms of tying up staff who could be doing much more important things.

There’a a reason most companies are moving in that direction, and the reason is simple: Massive cost savings. I used to be the biggest on-premise fan in the world but when you’re an experienced technical AND business person, you see that cloud is the best solution. You “wanting to be in control” doesn’t save your company tons of money every year, and the few tiny companies we talk with who are like that are generally clients we don’t pursue.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I don't know about where you work, but the company I work for is kinda cheap. If they built an on-prem data center, they would probably cut corners on things like UPS backups and generators to the point where we screwed during a lengthy power outage. Living on the Connecticut coastline, those are known the happen every few years or so.

Besides, 2/3rds of the company works remotely thanks to COVID, so most of us wouldn't even see a performance improvement if everything was hosted locally.

Yeah I guess some companies are just cheap and have crappy setups. Cloud is not that cheap either though as it's a continuous cost. All the places I worked at put quite a lot of money into the IT stuff OR their needs were so small that a couple servers in a room worked fine for them and cloud would actually be an extra hassle. Either way if anything went wrong we were on it and in control of the situation, not spinning our thumbs wondering what's going on. As much as it's nice to pass the buck, I find it's worse being a sitting duck and everyone is looking at you "you're IT, figure it out!" and your hands are tied because you're waiting on a vendor or something.

Then I moved to telecom and it's a whole other level. Even more state of the art than any of the server rooms I've been in. Spending 60 grand on UPS batteries is not out of the question. 1 cell is the size of a bar fridge. We have 4 strings of 24 (48v). The type of equipment we have is not really server or storage stuff though, it's more equivalent to routers and network stuff. Though the phone switch can almost be seen as a mainframe in a way. It stores data too and routes calls. You could technically put all that in the cloud using some kind of voip system but you would actually sacrifice reliability and life, as the odds of them offering the service in it's form 30 years down the line is slim to none. Our phone switch has a bigger uptime than I've been alive.

But yeah I think it really depends on the needs of the company at the end of the day. There's a place for both on prem and cloud. I just don't agree with this whole "put everything in the cloud!" movement.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Another example of “outsourcing:” I have a side business making custom action figures for neglected franchises and by making, I design them, hire a digital sculptor who sculpts them, and then I print and sell them. Once I solidify my business with enough offerings for a steady stream of orders, I am definitely going to outsource the manufacturing piece. It isn’t worth my time and effort to do it and I’ll even take a partial hit to my margins to eliminate that function so I can concentrate on the real value add - introducing new figures and accessories.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah I guess some companies are just cheap and have crappy setups. Cloud is not that cheap either though as it's a continuous cost. All the places I worked at put quite a lot of money into the IT stuff OR their needs were so small that a couple servers in a room worked fine for them and cloud would actually be an extra hassle. Either way if anything went wrong we were on it and in control of the situation, not spinning our thumbs wondering what's going on. As much as it's nice to pass the buck, I find it's worse being a sitting duck and everyone is looking at you "you're IT, figure it out!" and your hands are tied because you're waiting on a vendor or something.

On-premise has continuous costs too, and you’re ignoring them - namely:

1. Maintenance contracts on both hardware and software
2. The cost of powering and cooling the equipment
3. Comp packages of staff whose sole roles are to bring up infrastructure and maintain it

There was a good thread over at [H] a few months ago where this guy calculated the cost to build out an infrastructure with ”somewhat” comparable redundancy to a major cloud platform. His software licensing costs alone (no hardware included!) were more than the cost to license his entire user base on M365 for 5 years. And he had a few thousand users too (around 5,000 if I recall correctly).

Then I moved to telecom and it's a whole other level. Even more state of the art than any of the server rooms I've been in. Spending 60 grand on UPS batteries is not out of the question. 1 cell is the size of a bar fridge. We have 4 strings of 24 (48v). The type of equipment we have is not really server or storage stuff though, it's more equivalent to routers and network stuff. Though the phone switch can almost be seen as a mainframe in a way. It stores data too and routes calls. You could technically put all that in the cloud using some kind of voip system but you would actually sacrifice reliability and life, as the odds of them offering the service in it's form 30 years down the line is slim to none. Our phone switch has a bigger uptime than I've been alive.

But yeah I think it really depends on the needs of the company at the end of the day. There's a place for both on prem and cloud. I just don't agree with this whole "put everything in the cloud!" movement.

No offense, but if $60K UPS batteries are a “whole other level” to you, well, it’s understandable why you’re not seeing the bigger picture.

 

[Red Squirrel]

NM

 

[snoopy7548]

As a manger, I outsource all work to my team and it feels awesome.

But seriously, the company I work for not only designs but also manufactures everything in-house, every step of the way. It's good that we have complete control over our processes, but at the same time things can often get hectic.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Oh yeah VMs are nothing new, I was talking about actual containers done in Docker, they're a new thing that has been all the rage in the past few years. it's sorta like a VM but not really a VM. I don't quite get the use case though, I guess they have less overhead since you're not running a full blown OS for each one.

Been meaning to update my actual VM infrastructure too, I want to have at least 2 hosts and do HA and stuff. Proxmox is the way to go for that for home use. Vmware is limited without shelling out big bucks and think they charge per VM now too.

In Systems Administration, you have the challenge of running and maintaining patch level for the OS for the sake of security and bug fixes, etc. That goes with the IP management side of what I was talking about....you're containerizing the app from the sounds of it and disconnecting it from everything else. I suppose that just allows you to migrate services between systems, etc....which is all fun and games, but you still have the burden of disk access, etc. I would say that kind of stuff is big in the web world where you have storage behind some middle tier and the apps all play on the web surface with no real resources of their own.

I've never even heard of proxmox. I went from ESX server, left sys admin stuff and ended up going with Oracle Virtualbox as my local/home choice for running linux in a sandbox. It checked most boxes I had. Even at work, I install Xubuntu on a desktop, run VirtualBox and then install CentOS to run mySQL and other tools I use...just so I can take snapshots of it and back it up easier.

 

[brianmanahan]

in college i used to think sys admin would be fun

then on a first internship i had to spend 6 straight weeks creating an installer for some ugly complicated custom desktop app that changed a biillion files and required a bunch of DLLs and registry settings

the following internship, i told them i wanted to be a web app developer

 

[Scarpozzi]

in college i used to think sys admin would be fun

then on a first internship i had to spend 6 straight weeks creating an installer for some ugly complicated custom desktop app that changed a biillion files and required a bunch of DLLs and registry settings

the following internship, i told them i wanted to be a web app developer

That sounds like you were a desktop admin. Maybe doing stuff with Microsoft Group Policy junk....I stayed away from that kind of work.

I started out running a server that held personal-mapped drive data and print servers on Netware 4.11 and then Netware 5/5.1. I did more Apache administration and then Tomcat to support Portal web software (around 1999)....then started doing Email services with a flat-file Email system and then branched into more load balancing solutions to make things robust....LDAP. Those were the days. In all cases, it was client/server stuff and I was behind the curtain. I didn't have to deal with users unless I chose to.

Eventually was doing Solaris and Red Hat administration and then jumped ship because my wife didn't want me on-call anymore.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I confirmed yesterday that the guy I'm replacing had a basement office with no windows and poor ventilation. The office was straight depressing and it's no wonder the guy was leaving.

I spoke with the administrative assistant since my future boss was slammed with work and she said, "Ohh, your office will be the corner office at the end of the hall." It's one of the larger offices there and the office suite is on the second floor. I may actually be back in a good environment for zoom meetings.

My current setup isn't great for any kind of phone call or meeting because I'm in a cube farm. I haven't had an office since I worked in IT.

 

[skyking]

congrats. My wife hasn't had a door to close for many years. she had to come home to get that kind of privacy. now she shares her zoom meetings with the dogs and one of them has a lot of input lol.

 

[Scarpozzi]

congrats. My wife hasn't had a door to close for many years. she had to come home to get that kind of privacy. now she shares her zoom meetings with the dogs and one of them has a lot of input lol.

I didn't mind having Zoom meetings at home, but my upstairs office is a roughly 750 square foot room. It's a lot of space to clean up behind me for it to look decent on camera. My kids won't leave anything alone and I was constantly taking their toys and throwing them in a pile on the opposite side of the room every day. Eventually, I brought a laptop in and setup a foldible table with just a gray wall behind me. I don't play with virtual backgrounds.

My wife got dogs and I dealt with that too. They ended up getting caged downstairs when I was working from home.

I'm crossing my fingers now that I'll get another pay bump next year and will be able to start saving up even more money for an airplane. I gotta hit my goal before I get too old.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Congrats! Having a private office is always nice. I'm in a cube farm myself, lower walls too. Though it's kind of the nature of my job. Think, NASA mission control, similar setting. I'm enjoying working from home when I can but it's going to be short lived, they already started the "voluntary return to work" stage. Of course nobody is going to want to do it, but I'm sure they will force it at some point.

For the few times I need to do anything that requires audio it's nice to have a private space and not need to use headphones.

 

[BoomerD]

I was always so glad I worked construction rather than some office job. I could (and often did) quit a job at noon...and have a new one lined up before I got home. The only time I was out of work for more than a day was if I didn't get on the list at the union hall...and even then, if word got out that I wasn't working, union dispatchers and company superintendents were calling.

 

[brianmanahan]

got pulled onto something more important for 4 hours today

so had to work 4 extra hours to make up for it

 

[IndyColtsFan]

got pulled onto something more important for 4 hours today

so had to work 4 extra hours to make up for it

Many years ago, my coworker and I met with our boss to complain about the number of meetings he was scheduling and including us in. He was inviting us to meetings we had no reason to be in and was wasting our time when we had a global network to run. He actually said: “The meetings are necessary and it is your job to make up time lost to meetings on your own personal time.“ The look on his face was priceless when my coworker and I sat there and laughed at him for a solid 2 minutes.

The moral of the story is this: you own your time outside of 40 hours, not the company.

 

[ultimatebob]

I gotta admit, there are some advantages to working from home. I had a Christmas gift delivered via FedEx, and those bastards left the package uncovered outside during a rainstorm.

That package probably would have been destroyed if I had to wait until 5:30 PM to retrieve it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Unless you get paid OT I would never work more than 40 hours a week. I tend to jump on OT opportunities just because they are rare for me but if I was not getting paid or it was becoming too regular, screw that. Up to the company to hire more people if there's too much work. In fact that's usually a good case to bring to the union. That's why there's often OT limits. If techs are always being called out or working off hours OT for cut overs etc then it means they need to hire more people to share the load.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Unless you get paid OT I would never work more than 40 hours a week. I tend to jump on OT opportunities just because they are rare for me but if I was not getting paid or it was becoming too regular, screw that. Up to the company to hire more people if there's too much work. In fact that's usually a good case to bring to the union. That's why there's often OT limits. If techs are always being called out or working off hours OT for cut overs etc then it means they need to hire more people to share the load.

Sometimes, you have to work more than 40 hours due to cutovers/go live events, etc. But expecting staff to work extra hours for free because management can’t effectively manage? No way. When my boss said that and we laughed at him, we made our point clear and there wasn’t a thing he could do about it because we had the power.

Our department director once said he expected people to work 55 hours per week on average if they wanted top reviews. I always got top reviews and rarely worked those hours and plus, towards the end of my tenure there, raises had gotten so bad that a top review was a 3% raise and an average review was a 2.5% raise - what a great incentive! It was even more hilarious given that they had implemented stack ranking just a couple years before, telling us that top performers were going to see raises in the 6-10% range. Riiiiiight. I got those raises BEFORE the stack ranking garbage was implemented.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Sometimes, you have to work more than 40 hours due to cutovers/go live events, etc. But expecting staff to work extra hours for free because management can’t effectively manage? No way. When my boss said that and we laughed at him, we made our point clear and there wasn’t a thing he could do about it because we had the power.

Yeah paid OT for cutovers etc is fine. As long as it's paid. Some stuff just has to be done after hours.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah paid OT for cutovers etc is fine. As long as it's paid. Some stuff just has to be done after hours.

When you’re salaried, you’re not paid OT in most cases.

 

[skyking]

I didn't mind having Zoom meetings at home, but my upstairs office is a roughly 750 square foot room. It's a lot of space to clean up behind me for it to look decent on camera. My kids won't leave anything alone and I was constantly taking their toys and throwing them in a pile on the opposite side of the room every day. Eventually, I brought a laptop in and setup a foldible table with just a gray wall behind me. I don't play with virtual backgrounds.

My wife got dogs and I dealt with that too. They ended up getting caged downstairs when I was working from home.

I'm crossing my fingers now that I'll get another pay bump next year and will be able to start saving up even more money for an airplane. I gotta hit my goal before I get too old.

What kind of plane did you have in mind?

 

[Scarpozzi]

What kind of plane did you have in mind?

That's where I'm really torn. I've only flown Cessna 152s and 172s. I still haven't jumped back into training and want to give a low-wing a try and see how it feels. My flight school from 12 years back didn't have a Piper available for training, only available to rent if you asked the owner. If I have any decent rental options here for weekend trips, I may opt to go that route instead of buying...as long as it's available to fly when I want to go. I've got a handful of airports here and at least one flying club, but they just have a few 172s and not anything particularly fast.

For the planes I've looked at on the market, it seems that the sweet spot is the Piper Arrow, but if I could find a deal on a Lance, it would be better for taking trips with bags and kids and legroom. I would really like to find an older Bonanza, but I've literally only got $10k saved up for this and I'm poor.

When I see how much I'm able to save while training, it's going to make it more clear on if, what, and when I buy.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Buy a decommissioned jumbo jet and convert it into an office, and do zoom meetings from there, you can look like a big shot.

Or you can freak people out and do it from the cockpit and say you're at your second job.

Seriously though it would be kind of cool to convert an old plane into living space.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Buy a decommissioned jumbo jet and convert it into an office, and do zoom meetings from there, you can look like a big shot.

Or you can freak people out and do it from the cockpit and say you're at your second job.

Seriously though it would be kind of cool to convert an old plane into living space.

I saw some sections of MD80s on ebay recently, but they were like $20k!


Here you go....MD88/90:

Original MD88 or MD90 aircraft cockpit/ Flight Deck | eBay

MD88 or MD90 aircraft complete cockpit/ Flight Deck. plus fuselage (NOTHING INCLUDED IN THIS SALE IS FOR FLIGHT USE) Vertical cut at desired length up to 60 feet (Whole fuselage available) Optional Horizontal cut below the floor provides a flat bottom surface. Pls ask! Cockpit ends at the...

www.ebay.com