"chances for life on this planet, 100%"

[Daedalus685]

The energy needed to move a large ship at anywhere near the speed of light would be ridiculous, nearly impossible.

Second, if we were able to propel a ship at near light speeds, the ship and everything inside it would break apart down to molecules.

Lets say we still overcome these problems and we are able to travel at the speed of light, it would still take us forever to travel through the Universe. This means that there must be another form of space travel that we haven't discovered.

At a constant 1g acceleration a human being woudl be able to travel the entire known universe in a single life time. At such a modest acceleration survival of the ship and crew would not be an issue.

The energy requirements would be massive but with a relatively modest acceleration (equivalent to earth gravity) we could reach speeds approaching that of light quickly enough that time dilation woudl allow a crew to get anywhere they want.

Constant acceleration of 1g is not something we can sustain these days... but I have no doubt that the technology will exist in my life time to travel to another star (albeit very slowly to my frame of reference). The problem is that anyone we send will likely be arriving a dozen generations of human life after they left. They would be utterly on their own.

It seems like sci-fi but we will eventually be sending humans to the stars. Frankly, the issues of sending a crew to another star are not as complicated as those relating to the fact that once they set off they will never be able to communicate with another human for the rest of their lives, and that they must survive the trip (food, shelter, sanity). If they are travelling across the galaxy it is quite possible that they will arrive after the human race has gone extinct. Such psychological and biological issues will take a while to sort out.

 

[bfdd]

When I read this I was like "fucking James Cameron"

 

[FTM0305]

At a constant 1g acceleration a human being woudl be able to travel the entire known universe in a single life time. At such a modest acceleration survival of the ship and crew would not be an issue.

The energy requirements would be massive but with a relatively modest acceleration (equivalent to earth gravity) we could reach speeds approaching that of light quickly enough that time dilation woudl allow a crew to get anywhere they want.

Constant acceleration of 1g is not something we can sustain these days... but I have no doubt that the technology will exist in my life time to travel to another star (albeit very slowly to my frame of reference). The problem is that anyone we send will likely be arriving a dozen generations of human life after they left. They would be utterly on their own.

It seems like sci-fi but we will eventually be sending humans to the stars. Frankly, the issues of sending a crew to another star are not as complicated as those relating to the fact that once they set off they will never be able to communicate with another human for the rest of their lives, and that they must survive the trip (food, shelter, sanity). If they are travelling across the galaxy it is quite possible that they will arrive after the human race has gone extinct. Such psychological and biological issues will take a while to sort out.

The problem is that there is still stuff in space.

Space Debris the size on a penny could rip through the entire ship at those speeds! All it would take is a small random space rock to ruin the ship.

 

[FTM0305]

When I read this I was like "fucking James Cameron"

I was think more along the lines

"The spice must flow!"

 

[zsdersw]

The problem is that there is still stuff in space.

Space Debris the size on a penny could rip through the entire ship at those speeds! All it would take is a small random space rock to ruin the ship.

True, but I think human problems (psychological and social, in particular) are the bigger hurdles.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

The problem is that there is still stuff in space.

Space Debris the size on a penny could rip through the entire ship at those speeds! All it would take is a small random space rock to ruin the ship.

the size of a penny? ha! an iron atom zipping along at relativistic speeds can hit with the force of a .45 caliber bullet. it doesn't even need to come from the direction of the supernova that created it!

 

[FTM0305]

the size of a penny? ha! an iron atom zipping along at relativistic speeds can hit with the force of a .45 caliber bullet. it doesn't even need to come from the direction of the supernova that created it!

Warp space flight it is!

 

[bfdd]

the size of a penny? ha! an iron atom zipping along at relativistic speeds can hit with the force of a .45 caliber bullet. it doesn't even need to come from the direction of the supernova that created it!

force fields duh

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I have no problem with science. I do, however, have a problem with a vision of the future of space travel so myopic as to assert that interstellar space travel in human time scales is "impossible" or "nearly impossible".. when the people who make those assertions haven't the slightest idea what they're talking about.

It's entirety possible since it's not forbidden by physics. That does not address the requirements that physics mandates. That's why you need to look at power retirements and get back to us. Unobtanium is scarce stuff.

 

[FTM0305]

True, but I think human problems (psychological and social, in particular) are the bigger hurdles.

Aren't those issues now?

 

[Perknose]

Why isn't this thread in politics and news?

Because our Politics & News forum is really the politics, politics, politics, politics, politics, and politically tinged news forum, whereas Off Topic was founded by us as the forum where we geeks could discuss interesting topics that weren't strictly computer related.

 

[FTM0305]

force fields duh

if you get force fields I get worm holes, thus nullifying the need for force fields. Unless I want a cool sun light.

 

[Daedalus685]

The problem is that there is still stuff in space.

Space Debris the size on a penny could rip through the entire ship at those speeds! All it would take is a small random space rock to ruin the ship.

There certainly is stuff out there, but shielding from a rock travelling at relativistic speeds isn't 'that' difficult. It is beyond our current understanding, but a ship as large as would be required to live on for a generation would likely be massive enough that shielding woudl be insignificant to its mass. A few metres of ice on the out side woudl do a remarkable job in this respect, and be easily repaired.

It is not insignificant but again, this technology will be around soon enough (for my kids to see anyway). But I'm not sure the human race itself will advance enough to be OK with being cut off from everyone they have ever known for the rest of eternity. Imagine spending the rest of your life with what you have today, nothing new ever, no new music (unless you create it), no new art, games, etc... The only thing you can read is what you have stored, you will never know anything about the humans you left behind other than they are most certainly already all dead. These issues are not easily overcome by technology as they require a fundamental altering of what makes a human.

This is primarily why I believe it will take quite some time after we have the technology to go before we actually do. I have no doubt there will be osme volunteers to go.. I'm just not sure if the kind of people that are ok with being cut of from society are those we want to sent on what will likely be the most expensive device ever created. Who knows though.. for all I know someone will discover super light speed communications next week.

 

[bfdd]

if you get force fields I get worm holes, thus nullifying the need for force fields. Unless I want a cool sun light.

no lasers

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Pretty cool. We need to investigate it as best as we can currently, and if it's plausible that it has life, we should send something to investigate ASAP.

120 trillion miles?

35,000?MPH.. 3428571429 hours.. 525600 hours/year..

6523 years?

Could maybe we make something that would go 100,000MPH? That would bring it down to 2,283 years.

On that time-scale, it may as well be on the other side of the universe. On the universal scale, it is a next door neighbor. On the time scale, it's currently much too far away to be of much use.

Your math is off...

The star is 20.3 light years away.

In miles that is ~ 119333546000000 (119 trillion miles according to google).

Journey time at 35000 miles per hour =
388949 years

 

[FTM0305]

There certainly is stuff out there, but shielding from a rock travelling at relativistic speeds isn't 'that' difficult. It is beyond our current understanding, but a ship as large as would be required to live on for a generation would likely be massive enough that shielding woudl be insignificant to its mass. A few metres of ice on the out side woudl do a remarkable job in this respect, and be easily repaired.

I like how you think. Ice shield, I want one, but I'm not too convinced that sheer mass of a ship would protect it from debris a velocities that are expected to send a human being to this place within his generation.

Now you mention generational ship, which suggests that you didn't side with the afore mentioned proposal that a ship accelerating at a low constant rate could reach speeds approaching the speed of light potentially traversing the distance within the life time of an individual. To which I argued that at such speeds any sort of debris would destroy the ship. Ice hulls included i may state now.

This colonial ship would be in space for years and would become its own society for generations. You would have to have the navigation auto piloted by AI, because if human history of the last thousand years serves any indication these guys may change their minds part way through flight.

Prolonged space flight is a mess and I find it not scientifically impossible, just impossible for humans to do.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

wait, wat? 525600 hours in a year? What planet do you live on?

:thumbsup:
Not Earth... (24 * 365.25 = 8766 hours per year)

 

[zsdersw]

Aren't those issues now?

Sure.. and will undoubtedly be in the future as well.

 

[zsdersw]

It's entirety possible since it's not forbidden by physics. That does not address the requirements that physics mandates. That's why you need to look at power retirements and get back to us. Unobtanium is scarce stuff.

No, I don't need to do anything of the sort. I'm not making claims of when, where, and how it can/should be done. I'm saying that claims of its impossibility and unfeasibility.. made by people without any clue.. are absurd.

 

[FTM0305]

Sure.. and will undoubtedly be in the future as well.

Well I guess they are certainly issues that would need to be covered in the next 20 years when we try commercializing (relatively local) space flight to satelites and the moon (or if Obama has his way an asteroid before going to the moon).

 

[zsdersw]

Well I guess they are certainly issues that would need to be covered in the next 20 years when we try commercializing (relatively local) space flight to satelites and the moon (or if Obama has his way an asteroid before going to the moon).

Yeah, the commercialization of local space flight will shuffle our social and cultural deck of cards for sure. How that plays out is the unknown; is it going to prepare us psychologically for interstellar travel or are we still going to be the same fearful and selfish creatures we are now?

 

[Fritzo]

I love to see all these armchair physicists and space propulsion experts in this thread talking about how interstellar space travel in human time scales is next to impossible.

There's no reason to doubt that they'll be joining the many hundreds of naysayers and critics throughout history who've asserted the impossibility or near-impossibility of achievement and been proven wrong.

Actually we're just a bit more familiar with the distances involved, the challenges faced, and the resources needed for such a feat than you are, that's all.

We're a lot more knowledgeable about manned spaceflight than we were in the 60's and 70's. We now know that radiation from solar flares will cook astronauts alive (which almost happened during the Apollo landings). We know that cosmic radiation causes cataracts and increased cancer risks in space travelers. We know that after 6 months in zero gravity, you experience severe bone loss.

Other things people don't realize is the distances involved. They are unimaginable. If our sun is represented by a basketball in Miami Florida, the Earth would be a pea about 100ft from it. Mars would be a seed about 150ft away, and Neptune would be a ping pong ball about 3000ft away. Our closest star to the sun, Alpha Centauri, would be located somewhere around Hollywood California. The planet they discovered is nearly 5x further away than that.

Now, imagine our fastest space craft could travel these distances at about 1/50th the speed of a typical garden snail.

This all puts things into perspective. This next step in human exploration isn't like traversing the oceans or air travel, and those both required manageable amounts of resources. While I believe that interstellar travel will occur, I think it is hundreds- if not thousands - of years off.

 

[Cogman]

Actually we're just a bit more familiar with the distances involved, the challenges faced, and the resources needed for such a feat than you are, that's all.

We're a lot more knowledgeable about manned spaceflight than we were in the 60's and 70's. We now know that radiation from solar flares will cook astronauts alive (which almost happened during the Apollo landings). We know that cosmic radiation causes cataracts and increased cancer risks in space travelers. We know that after 6 months in zero gravity, you experience severe bone loss.

Other things people don't realize is the distances involved. They are unimaginable. If our sun is represented by a basketball in Miami Florida, the Earth would be a pea about 100ft from it. Mars would be a seed about 150ft away, and Neptune would be a ping pong ball about 3000ft away. Our closest star to the sun, Alpha Centauri, would be located somewhere around Hollywood California. The planet they discovered is nearly 5x further away than that.

Now, imagine our fastest space craft could travel these distances at about 1/50th the speed of a typical garden snail.

This all puts things into perspective. This next step in human exploration isn't like traversing the oceans or air travel, and those both required manageable amounts of resources. While I believe that interstellar travel will occur, I think it is hundreds- if not thousands - of years off.

Not to mention the "If it is even possible". Our current understanding about the theory of relativity puts moving past light speed in the realm of impossible. A star that is 10 light years away might as well be 1000, it is just too far for us.

Even if we go faster than light somehow, the next problem is how do we know that the star is still there? This isn't star trek. Something would have to send a "faster than light" signal for us to know if it still existed (not likely)

 

[bfdd]

Fritzo, I don't think it's thousands of years off. My life time? Nah, but I don't think it would be more than a couple hundred years.

 

[zsdersw]

Actually we're just a bit more familiar with the distances involved, the challenges faced, and the resources needed for such a feat than you are, that's all.

I'm as aware of the distances, challenges, and resources as anyone here.

We're a lot more knowledgeable about manned spaceflight than we were in the 60's and 70's. We now know that radiation from solar flares will cook astronauts alive (which almost happened during the Apollo landings). We know that cosmic radiation causes cataracts and increased cancer risks in space travelers. We know that after 6 months in zero gravity, you experience severe bone loss.

All true.

Other things people don't realize is the distances involved. They are unimaginable. If our sun is represented by a basketball in Miami Florida, the Earth would be a pea about 100ft from it. Mars would be a seed about 150ft away, and Neptune would be a ping pong ball about 3000ft away. Our closest star to the sun, Alpha Centauri, would be located somewhere around Hollywood California. The planet they discovered is nearly 5x further away than that.

Who are these "people" you mentioned that "don't realize the distances involved"? Everyone in this thread is pretty up to speed on the distances involved.

Now, imagine our fastest space craft could travel these distances at about 1/50th the speed of a typical garden snail.

This all puts things into perspective. This next step in human exploration isn't like traversing the oceans or air travel, and those both required manageable amounts of resources. While I believe that interstellar travel will occur, I think it is hundreds- if not thousands - of years off.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that I just fell off of the turnip truck, but yeah, I'm well aware of the distances and the inadequacies of both our technology and our psychology. I don't think it's unreasonable to say we're 100-200 years away from interstellar travel, but that's not what I was reading in the posts in this thread. Most of what I've read in this thread are comments that express either apathy or an immediate rejection of everything presented, the planet, and whether or not we could ever reach it. There's no good reason for any of that.