Do tell, I'm curious what evil things Carter did.
In comparison Saxby once called a Vietnam vet a traitor to his country, that takes class.
EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
- 20,079
- 15
- 81
Sok the average Obama voter still thinks republicans are in control.
please ignore awful music wait til 48 seconds
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
I think this whole "60 needed for a supermajority" thingy has been too hyped and over-simplified.
Look, you've got Repubs that are practically indistinguishable from Dems (e.g., Olympia Snow & Susan Collins) and could vote with the Dems anyway. OTOH, we've also got Blue Dog Dems who could just as easily vote with the Repubs.
IMO, it's too simplistic to assume that just because there's a "Dem" next to their name that 60 Senators are always gonna toe the party (leaders') line, likewise for the Repubs.
Fern
Look, you've got Repubs that are practically indistinguishable from Dems (e.g., Olympia Snow & Susan Collins) and could vote with the Dems anyway. OTOH, we've also got Blue Dog Dems who could just as easily vote with the Repubs.
IMO, it's too simplistic to assume that just because there's a "Dem" next to their name that 60 Senators are always gonna toe the party (leaders') line, likewise for the Repubs.
Fern
Hi Dave! Would you please reconcile your position now to the one you took in 2006 where you stated the Republicans had full control?
11/12/2006 10:37 PM
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Considering all the seats your party has lost over the course of the last 24 months, I have to say I am somewhat surprised to see you gloating about ANYTHING political.
I disagree. For some good info you can check out this analysis on polarization. Simply put, even 'moderate' Republicans like Snowe and Susan Collins are nowhere close to indistinguishable from Democrats. They are still much, much more conservative. There was a time in which the parties experienced significant ideological overlap, but that time has long since passed. A (D) seat and an (R) seat are two very different things.
The ideological heresy displayed by people like Lieberman, the Blue Dogs, etc. is VASTLY overhyped. They disagree with their parties on a few small wedge issues, they still vote overwhelmingly with their party.
The 60 vote thing is overhyped, but that's because party discipline was never enough to begin with anyway.
The polarization has become so strong, that even if someone (lets say a moderate R or a moderate D) wants to vote with the other party on an issue, they risk getting hammered by their own party for falling out of line, and then get hung out to dry when it comes time to get support for reelection in their district. I think votes are going to continue to get much much more "along party lines" than ever. The repubs since 2000 have contributed a LOT to this problem, they were extremely effective in keeping everyone on the R side voting lockstep, forcing the other side to do the same.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
To GenX
Its was the rubber stamping of bad public policy that hurt the GOP in the time frame 2000-2006. It was the grid locking of better public policy that hurt the GOP in the last two years. Its not a matter of making up my mind or choosing which is worse, both are poison, and the GOP managed to commit both sins. And committing a new sin does not absolve the GOP of its previous different sin.
But if it makes GenX feel any better, we can combine them into the same sin. Under captain Clinton, the democrats left GWB and the GOP with a ship of State safely floating on a sea of black ink. And as soon as GWB had the watch, he steered the good ship USA straight towards a distant reef, after six years, when it became clear we were nearly upon that reef, the crew mutinied and elected a new oversight. And as a result, the dems were able to slightly alter course away from the reef, but because the GOP jammed the steering gear, that 2 year course correction was not enough to safely steer us away from the reef. So we now need an 850 billion bail out of our banking system, we are in a bad recession, and no one is sure if we will manage to avoid hitting the reef and ripping huge holes in the hull.
Its was the rubber stamping of bad public policy that hurt the GOP in the time frame 2000-2006. It was the grid locking of better public policy that hurt the GOP in the last two years. Its not a matter of making up my mind or choosing which is worse, both are poison, and the GOP managed to commit both sins. And committing a new sin does not absolve the GOP of its previous different sin.
But if it makes GenX feel any better, we can combine them into the same sin. Under captain Clinton, the democrats left GWB and the GOP with a ship of State safely floating on a sea of black ink. And as soon as GWB had the watch, he steered the good ship USA straight towards a distant reef, after six years, when it became clear we were nearly upon that reef, the crew mutinied and elected a new oversight. And as a result, the dems were able to slightly alter course away from the reef, but because the GOP jammed the steering gear, that 2 year course correction was not enough to safely steer us away from the reef. So we now need an 850 billion bail out of our banking system, we are in a bad recession, and no one is sure if we will manage to avoid hitting the reef and ripping huge holes in the hull.
I don't know. I think it's deeper than that. Slate has been running some articles recently called 'the big sort' which has a lot of interesting info. I don't think it's the fault of the R's or the D's so much as it is a shift in how Americans associate based upon higher personal mobility. (my somewhat tenuously supported opinion)
The political parties seem to be symptoms of this instead of causes as far as I can tell.
Oh I get it so you want your cake and to eat it too? Before democrats controlled the congress rubberstamping was bad, filibuster good. Once Democrats control the congress filibuster is bad, rubberstamping good.
What an absolutely simplistic view of the world you have. I hope the bliss is wonderful in your sea of ignorance.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
What GenX has in saying, " What an absolutely simplistic view of the world you have. I hope the bliss is wonderful in your sea of ignorance." , is simply his own denial. Bad public policy does have consequences,
and the spend and borrow policy of GWB and the GOP always fails after a short time. Add in two stupid quagmires, and the merry go round stops even faster.
Even when poll after poll showed the American people thought the country was moving in the wrong direction, the GOP refused to alter course. As a result that GOP got fired yet again in the election of 11/2008.
Call it simplistic if you want GenX, but its really simple to understand. So you can invent some complex reason of why the GOP really succeeded if you care to, but it still does not change the fact that the American people collectively fired the GOP for simple incompetence.
and the spend and borrow policy of GWB and the GOP always fails after a short time. Add in two stupid quagmires, and the merry go round stops even faster.
Even when poll after poll showed the American people thought the country was moving in the wrong direction, the GOP refused to alter course. As a result that GOP got fired yet again in the election of 11/2008.
Call it simplistic if you want GenX, but its really simple to understand. So you can invent some complex reason of why the GOP really succeeded if you care to, but it still does not change the fact that the American people collectively fired the GOP for simple incompetence.
The simplistic view is you thinking the days of surplus were feasible past Clintons term when it clearly was not. The economy was faltering in 2000 and came to a complete crash in 01. Gore, Bush, or even Clinton it wouldnt have mattered who was running the show in 01. We were back to deficit spending.
As for bank, the democrats have been running the banking committees for two years and utterly failed to see this coming as well.
08 was a changing of the guard. An unpopular president that lampooned his own party.
pales in comparison to the other big guns brought in to campaign for the dems: Ludacris, Young Jeezy, and T.I. :laugh:
Rumor has it, T.I. gave a speech entitled "You can have whatever you like".
Oh wait, that was what certain blacks were screaming in the streets on Obama's election night
Stop lying.
Democrats don't control congress and never have unlike your Republicans had full control from 2001 to 2006.
I'm slow, help me out here Dave. Can you please explain how the republicans had full control when they had lower numbers than the Dems will at the start of 2009?
Or can we say that Dems have full control come 2009? I need your help here
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