Chainsaw 1, leg 0

[abj13]

Clean it well with running soap and running water. Give it a alcohol rinse afterwards for good measure. Do not use H2O2 to clean.

This is why one should seek medical care. Cleaning this wound with straight tap water is dangerous. There are multiple different types of microbes that could be introduced into the wound, sinks/showers are notorious for their bacterial flora. If you are going to do ANY cleaning, it should be with a medical provider since they would actually have sterilized irrigation fluids.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

This is why one should seek medical care. Cleaning this wound with straight tap water is dangerous. There are multiple different types of microbes that could be introduced into the wound, sinks/showers are notorious for their bacterial flora. If you are going to do ANY cleaning, it should be with a medical provider since they would actually have sterilized irrigation fluids.

Harm reduction. You already know he wasn't going to the ER. Therefore, you must think of the best way to help.

Also, you must have missed the alcohol part. :whiste:


Oh BTW doctors washes their hands with tap water too! Soap & Water for 20 seconds.

 

[Texashiker]

You'll probably want to clean the chain a little and make a quick pass with the file. Check the oil too. But I'm sure it will be OK. You got lucky you didn't hit a rock.

I just got the saw out of the shop for routine maintance before spring.

It has a brandnew chain on it with less than 10 minutes of running time

I have been using a saw for 20 years and this is the first time I have ever hurt myself.

 

[destrekor]

I had other studies up I was looking at, too. I just selected one pretty much at random, really. They all had side effects reported in the majority of participants. What's the difference how old it is? Klingon's never use doctors anyhow, they just cut off the offending part, spit on it, and move on.

Difference regarding age is that likely formulations have changed, which they have.

TDaP formulations are different from DTP formulations. Off the top of my head, I can't say what they changed, but I do recall reading about TDaP and how it's far removed from the formulations with historically negative reactions.

Not to mention, many places use the single-dose shots these days. Multi-dose vials just seem to be a bad idea all around. I don't know the full truth regarding Thimerosal and vaccines, but I'd rather not have any mercury injected into me (nor any extremely toxic chemicals that haven't been studied all that well in humans). That said, I think there is a large number of single-dose vaccines these days due to the push to remove thimerosal (or thiomersal) from vaccines (especially ones for children) - so it's largely not even a real concern these days.

Outside of some vaccines using bad formulations (not dead enough virus material? didn't study enough and that dead one still causes a reaction? I don't know), the only other concern to ever be drawn up regarding vaccines in general is the use of thimerosal. Since that's essentially not in wide use these days, I don't know why people still get worked up over vaccines.

 

[abj13]

You must have missed the alcohol part. :whiste:

Oh BTW doctors washes their hands with tap water too! Even for surgery.

Nobody in health care irrigates a wound with alcohol.

Physicians dry their hands and proceed to wear gloves, comparison= wrong.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Nobody in health care irrigates a wound with alcohol.

Physicians dry their hands and proceed to wear gloves, comparison= wrong.

You got to work with what you have. Not what you wish you have. :biggrin:

Oh and alcohol sanitizer can be used as a replacement for hand washing (not in surgery obviously).

Wash hand soap and water is only necessary in case of C. diff.

 

[abj13]

Difference regarding age is that likely formulations have changed, which they have.

TDaP formulations are different from DTP formulations. Off the top of my head, I can't say what they changed, but I do recall reading about TDaP and how it's far removed from the formulations with historically negative reactions.

Not to mention, many places use the single-dose shots these days. Multi-dose vials just seem to be a bad idea all around. I don't know the full truth regarding Thimerosal and vaccines, but I'd rather not have any mercury injected into me (nor any extremely toxic chemicals that haven't been studied all that well in humans). That said, I think there is a large number of single-dose vaccines these days due to the push to remove thimerosal (or thiomersal) from vaccines (especially ones for children) - so it's largely not even a real concern these days.

Outside of some vaccines using bad formulations (not dead enough virus material? didn't study enough and that dead one still causes a reaction? I don't know), the only other concern to ever be drawn up regarding vaccines in general is the use of thimerosal. Since that's essentially not in wide use these days, I don't know why people still get worked up over vaccines.

The whole scare about thiomersal is purely theoretical, and isn't based on science. There is a fundamental difference between the stereotypical "mercury" seen in poisoning, vs the mercury in thiomersal. In thiomersal, the mercury is rendered inert. Furthermore, there's been large scale studies looking at thiomersal, and there is no association with things like Autism, etc.

The whole thiomersal fear-mongering really hurt vaccine science and public opinion, pressing people into becoming mindless Jenny McCarthy's over it.

 

[Imp]

it doesn't look nauseating at all.

I'd go to the doctor and get that stitched up though because even if it happens to heal without infection, it would leave a big scar.
Actually the width looks a bit too large to be able to heal on its own, it's not just a cut, it's a chainsaw-width hole.

Okay, I just "eff'd it" and clicked on it. The picture doesn't look too bad -- but the wound does. Not smooth, lot of flaps for bad shit to hide under. It's your leg...

 

[Texashiker]

Besides tetanus, and I might go just to get one, we have an immune system for a reason.

Humanity did not survive for hundreds of thousands of years by dying from a flesh wound.

At the first sign of infection I will make a trip to the ER.

 

[schmuckley]

Yes, the saw is fine.

I thought about going back out there and cutting some more brush. But decided not to push my luck.

I will probably pull the wound closed, put some superglue on it and call it a day.

Seems legit to me..mebbe try some peroxide, 1st.
How did you happen to do this?It looks like there was some skating, even.
Don't forget about nuskin
What saw were you using?
Were you running a chainsaw in shorts?
Just a little bit deeper and you would've had to have a tourniquet.

 

[jagec]

I wouldn't have gone to the ER either. That's not a $2000 wound.

City folk...*sigh*

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Besides tetanus, and I might go just to get one, we have an immune system for a reason.

Humanity did not survive for hundreds of thousands of years by dying from a flesh wound.

At the first sign of infection I will make a trip to the ER.

Win :biggrin:

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Seems legit to me..mebbe try some peroxide, 1st.
How did you happen to do this?It looks like there was some skating, even.
Don't forget about nuskin
What saw were you using?

Never use peroxide to clean wounds. Bad bad bad.

 

[disappoint]

Besides tetanus, and I might go just to get one, we have an immune system for a reason.

Humanity did not survive for hundreds of thousands of years by dying from a flesh wound.

Oh yes they did! Humanity survived this long by dying of all sorts of things.

At the first sign of infection I will make a trip to the ER.

Then it will be too late, and we will call you stumpy.

 

[Imp]

Besides tetanus, and I might go just to get one, we have an immune system for a reason.

Humanity did not survive for hundreds of thousands of years by dying from a flesh wound.

At the first sign of infection I will make a trip to the ER.

True... But humanity used to call it quits around age 30 to 40?

Also, prevention (e.g. doctor cleaning out wound, giving you some antibiotics) is probably cheaper than a few weeks in a hospital hooked up to an IV. I really wouldn't call your wound, run of the mill, everyday.

http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/chainsaws.asp

"Each year, approximately 36,000 people are treated in hospital emergency departments for injuries from using chain saws."

 

[Imp]

Never use peroxide to clean wounds. Bad bad bad.

You've stated this many times, and I actually have read up on this and have an idea what the reason is (i.e. I think you're right), but could you explain anyways?

 

[SlickSnake]

Don't post things you don't understand...

1) DTP is not longer available in the US
2) DTP was only intended for children for the 2 mo-5 years vaccination schedule
3) Tdap would be the recommended vaccine for adults in the US currently that would be analogous to DTP
4) DTaP is now the recommended vaccine in children, which does not have the significant side-effects that were attributed to DTP
5) A Mexican medical journal reporting on an old vaccine that that wouldn't even be used in this situation AND isn't even available in the US shows how much you don't even understand the situation.

I could have posted 50 links nobody else would even click on, and I bet you would still pick out one link you had a problem with and point it out, I'm sure. So tell us all, do you MAKE or SELL vaccines for a living, or profit from them in any way and spend your time trolling forums because of it? Because you sure seem to be an expert. Or you just have more time to waste and Google and Wiki a link than I do.

All those vaccines you clarified are STILL the same 3 vaccines mixed together. DTP, DTaP, Tdap... besides YOU, who else here cares? This is not www.webmd.com/‎. Maybe you just got lost or something. This is a HARDWARE FORUM.

And you are trolling this thread OFF TOPIC.

 

[schmuckley]

Never use peroxide to clean wounds. Bad bad bad.

yeah..how many wounds like that or worse have you had? :whiste:

clean it with peroxide/alcohol/merthiolate/mercurochrome

do the superglue bit..nuskin might be better..
not much there to pull together.
If it starts looking pinkish/reddish..salt poultice.Salt draws infection out.

 

[disappoint]

Okay, I just "eff'd it" and clicked on it. The picture doesn't look too bad -- but the wound does. Not smooth, lot of flaps for bad shit to hide under. It's your leg...

The pic doesn't look bad because you can't see microscopic pathogens. Also they haven't had time to grow to unmanageable (by your immune system and medications) proportions yet.

I'm not saying it will happen, but it could happen. If it does you risk some serious complications. It's a personal choice. I'd say it's foolish to risk life and limb over money but then some former apple ceo told us to stay foolish so what do I know?

 

[Pray To Jesus]

yeah..how many wounds like that or worse have you had? :whiste:

clean it with peroxide/alcohol/merthiolate/mercurochrome

do the superglue bit..nuskin might be better..
not much there to pull together.
If it starts looking pinkish/reddish..salt poultice.Salt draws infection out.

I never jumped off a cliff and hit the rocks on the bottom either. Maybe I shouldn't tell others people not to do so.

You're ignorant in medicine. Stop giving bad medical advice.

 

[abj13]

I could have posted 50 links nobody else would even click on, and I bet you would still pick out one link you had a problem with and point it out, I'm sure. So tell us all, do you MAKE or SELL vaccines for a living, or profit from them in any way and spend your time trolling forums because of it? Because you sure seem to be an expert. Or you just have more time to waste and Google and Wiki a link than I do.

All those vaccines you clarified are STILL the same 3 vaccines mixed together. DTP, DTaP, Tdap... besides YOU, who else here cares? This is not www.webmd.com/‎. Maybe you just got lost or something. This is a HARDWARE FORUM.

And you are trolling this thread OFF TOPIC.

Hahahhahah. You're the one trolling by posting articles from Mexican journals from 23+ years ago. I don't believe for a second that you read that study. If you are going to post a link to something, at least read completely what you cite. Otherwise, you are the troll.

No, DTP, DTaP, Tdap are not the same. In fact, the adverse reactions to DTP is NOT the same as DTaP or Tdap. If you actually read what is in the vaccines, it would make sense, I'll give you a hint, its related to the Pertussis component (and in the current vaccines, the Diphtheria).

Better yet, read about why there is the letter "a" in the vaccines now. That's a good starting point. But its funny to see how defensive someone can be when they get called out on posting BS information. Get a grip, calm down. You are wrong, Man up, edit your posts, call it a day. Posting 23 year old studies from Mexican journals on a vaccine that doesn't apply = misinformation.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

And you are trolling this thread OFF TOPIC.

STFU charlatan. You are harming people with your medical ignorance.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

You've stated this many times, and I actually have read up on this and have an idea what the reason is (i.e. I think you're right), but could you explain anyways?

It's been known for many years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide#Disinfecting_wounds

Commonly used as treatment for disinfecting wounds, there is a body of evidence, e.g.[3] and many reports since, that the use of large volumes of hydrogen peroxide over substantial tissue areas can lead to a dangerous oxygen embolism (gas embolism). While judicious use on surface wounds can utilize the catalase-caused "fizzing" effect to assist debridement and cleaning of soil from the wound, clinicians are recommended to consult the literature before using peroxide on wounds and tissue cavities. It has also been shown that hydrogen peroxide, even in dilute solutions and minute quantities can slow the healing process on wounds.[2][57][58][59] Further, hydrogen peroxide applied to wounds can impede healing and lead to scarring because it destroys newly formed skin cells.[60]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/12/vreeman.carroll.medical.myths/index.html?hpt=op_t1

You might not be a doctor, but we bet you think you know exactly what to do if you scrape your knee.

First, you might use hydrogen peroxide to clean the wound. Second, you might leave it uncovered at night so it can air out and heal faster. Finally, you might apply some vitamin E cream if you want to prevent an unsightly scar. As pediatricians, we might have recommended the very same steps to care for your child's wounded knee.

But, all of us would have been wrong. Wrong about hydrogen peroxide, wrong about uncovering the wound and wrong about vitamin E.

Now, the ideas behind these steps make sense. Hydrogen peroxide looks like it's working as it bubbles and stings. An uncovered cut seems to dry up, scab and look less moist and open.

But multiple randomized, controlled trials -- the best kind of research -- show that hydrogen peroxide does not prevent or treat infections in wounds. Not only that, hydrogen peroxide slows healing and may even cause cellular damage. That bubbling you see? It's probably the hydrogen peroxide attacking you.

Uncovering your wound at night? It's actually one of the last things you want to do. Careful studies reveal a moist, covered environment is best for wound healing. And most studies of vitamin E show no improvement whatsoever in the size, thickness or appearance of scars after using it. Moreover, many people get an itchy rash from using vitamin E.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/health/19real.html?_r=0

According to most studies of its effectiveness, not really. Parents and school nurses might insist otherwise, but researchers have found that hydrogen peroxide has little ability to reduce bacteria in wounds and can actually inflame healthy skin cells that surround a cut or a scrape, increasing the amount of time wounds take to heal.

 

[Markbnj]

It didn't bite in and take more? Can I call you a lucky SOB?

This. Sounds like it could have been a shitload worse.

 

[destrekor]

The whole scare about thiomersal is purely theoretical, and isn't based on science. There is a fundamental difference between the stereotypical "mercury" seen in poisoning, vs the mercury in thiomersal. In thiomersal, the mercury is rendered inert. Furthermore, there's been large scale studies looking at thiomersal, and there is no association with things like Autism, etc.

The whole thiomersal fear-mongering really hurt vaccine science and public opinion, pressing people into becoming mindless Jenny McCarthy's over it.

I've mostly seen it in that regard as well, don't get me wrong.

There are some studies that do demonstrate inorganic mercury deposits in tissues after the breakdown of ethylmercury (which is a metabolite of thimerosal). It is NOT as significant, or as dangerous, as the amount of mercury one would get if that metabolite were methylmercury, this is true - and that original fear, that ethylmercury and methylmercury were essentially the same, is what drove the FDA to recommend the cessation of thimerosal use in vaccines. It was then thought that that was misplaced and unfounded, and that ethylmercury was actually very safe.
However, as I stated, I've seen some studies that seem to be about demonstrating that ethylmercury is not nearly as dangerous as methylmercury (with specific mention of Thimerosal) - however, it also comes with point-blank acceptance that yes, raw, inorganic mercury, the same deadly Hg we've always known, is still a metabolite of ethylmercury. It seems methylmercury is one of the metabolites of ethylmercury, which may be way mercury is a metabolite - and why there is LESS mercury, with a shorter half-life in the body, than when you do start with methylmercury.

If that shorter timeframe in the body, and lesser amount, is still reasonable to you - that's fine and all, but I think it's time for a different preservative. When you learn that a preservative deposits potentially dangerous mercury into your body (which crosses the blood-brain barrier, btw), that should be cause for concern.

That said, it's also possible to ingest small amounts of mercury and still be fine... theoretically. Many toxic things can make themselves known to your body, and you don't suffer for it at all.
Or we do, and it's just so minimal it's difficult to ever place how and why you started becoming a different person.

Whether it can ever be linked to autism is an entirely different subject of research - toxicity of mercury, however, is not up for debate. You can play the odds and are likely come out 100% fine - but it's still an unnecessary risk.


Again, this is not about being anti-vaccine, of which I'm not, as I still get them. It's about smart science - evidence suggests it could be potentially harmful, at least at the "right dosage" - but we're not mature enough in our scientific knowledge to truly determine how often we can be exposed to microscopic dosages before it causes a change in the genome or crosses a few neurons (in a manner of speaking). So you may not receive a confirmed toxic dose of mercury when getting a rare multi-dose vaccine with thimerosal in it - but, can we determine how often we can receive 25μg* of Hg before it's not exactly doing us any favors?

*25μg is the typical mercury content of a single-dose of influenza vaccine that has been pulled from a 5.0mL multi-dose vial of Novartis's Fluvirin.
Most single-dose vaccines have zero thimerosal, and no mercury. Most of us will only ever see single-dose vaccines if we go to get a vaccine somewhere. It might be different at any kind of mass clinic, but I can't recall the last time I ever saw multi-dose vials.
BTW, if you want a vaccine but don't want one from a vial and will refuse to receive if given such, do realize they also make single-dose vials (0.5mL). Yuu can get a single-dose pre-filled vaccine, or they take a generic syringe and often use a single-dose vial.
[edit: This Source goes here.]