- Oct 9, 1999
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http://www.auto.com/reviews/pilot27_20020727.htm
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Booyah...hittin' where it counts in the mid-sized market
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Booyah...hittin' where it counts in the mid-sized market
Cha Ching! [Honda] Pilot enjoying takeoff
- Thread starter NFS4
- Start date
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
With the big 3's mindset, rather than build decent cars or SUV's, they'll turn to the truck segment now, till foreign based manufacturers take over that area too.
MichaelD
Lifer
- Jan 16, 2001
- 31,528
- 3
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You know, down here in South TX, I see more and more Toyota Tundra's on the road every day. I almost bought one...just couldn't picture myself in a pickup truck.
The pilot is a nice sport-cute. Great engine. Not a real truck though. Full-time AWD in a truck? Laughable. No low range transfer case? Laughable. Unit body based on the Odyessy Family Van (!) as opposed to ladder-on-frame? Laughable.
For the record, I owned FOUR HONDA CARS, before buying my Trooper. When an if Honda builds a REAL full-size SUV or Pup truck, I'll buy it.
*I must admit, the Pilot's interior does look as comfy, if not more, than my Trooper. Honda makes great interiors! That center console/stack kicks butt.*
- Oct 9, 1999
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LOL, I don't know about all that
The Big-3 is trying hard to beef up the quality on their cars. GM's new Epsilon and Sigma platforms are good starts. I still have doubts as to what Chrysler can do. I mean, their cars aren't the best by a long shot and the 7-year warranty thing is the only thing spurring their sales. Ford is another one that I don't have much insight into. The Focus is definitely a winner with a world-class chassis, but the recalls and quality niggles here and there are troubling.
As for SUV's, the Explorer is OK. The Trailblazer/Envoy are also good vehicles although I think that their EXT/XL versions are unneeded and encroach too much into Tahoe/Yukon territory...and besides, they look rather deformed in stretched trim. The current Grand Cherokee has been around since '99 so it's time for a redo. I've heard rumours that the next GC will be built off an all independent suspension variant of the next M-Class platform...we shall see.
But as the article states, I think that it will end up being a 50/50 split between "truckish" mid-sized SUV's and "car-based" mid-sized SUV's.
None of that crap matters if you don't go off-road. And obviously, people who buy these don't. People who are buying Pilots and Highlander are the same people that have bought Accords and Camrys for years. Did they take their Accords and Camrys off-road? No. Do they have some newfound joy for taking a Pilot or Highlander off-road? No. They're just moving up to a bigger vehicle that has a lot more cargo room to haul their sh!t, has better traction, more space for their expanding bellys, and more cargo room. Again, here's the quote I put up above:
That's all that matters to most mid-sized SUV drivers. Can't fault them for that.
MichaelD
Lifer
- Jan 16, 2001
- 31,528
- 3
- 76
Originally posted by: NFS4
LOL, I don't know about all that
The Big-3 is trying hard to beef up the quality on their cars. GM's new Epsilon and Sigma platforms are good starts. I still have doubts as to what Chrysler can do. I mean, their cars aren't the best by a long shot and the 7-year warranty thing is the only thing spurring their sales. Ford is another one that I don't have much insight into. The Focus is definitely a winner with a world-class chassis, but the recalls and quality niggles here and there are troubling.
As for SUV's, the Explorer is OK. The Trailblazer/Envoy are also good vehicles although I think that their EXT/XL versions are unneeded and encroach too much into Tahoe/Yukon territory...and besides, they look rather deformed in stretched trim. The current Grand Cherokee has been around since '99 so it's time for a redo. I've heard rumours that the next GC will be built off an all independent suspension variant of the next M-Class platform...we shall see.
But as the article states, I think that it will end up being a 50/50 split between "truckish" mid-sized SUV's and "car-based" mid-sized SUV's.
I like your car/truck threads, NFS4...guy stuff is a good thing!
Now, about the "foreign takeover" of the USA truck market. The Japanese have a LONG way to go before they can produce something along the lines of a F-350 or Silverado HD with that monster motor. However, if I was in the market for a "regular truck", I'd take a Tunda 4WD with the V8 over an F150 or Regular Silverado any day of the week.
MichaelD
Lifer
- Jan 16, 2001
- 31,528
- 3
- 76
Originally posted by: NFS4
LOL, I don't know about all that
The Big-3 is trying hard to beef up the quality on their cars. GM's new Epsilon and Sigma platforms are good starts. I still have doubts as to what Chrysler can do. I mean, their cars aren't the best by a long shot and the 7-year warranty thing is the only thing spurring their sales. Ford is another one that I don't have much insight into. The Focus is definitely a winner with a world-class chassis, but the recalls and quality niggles here and there are troubling.
As for SUV's, the Explorer is OK. The Trailblazer/Envoy are also good vehicles although I think that their EXT/XL versions are unneeded and encroach too much into Tahoe/Yukon territory...and besides, they look rather deformed in stretched trim. The current Grand Cherokee has been around since '99 so it's time for a redo. I've heard rumours that the next GC will be built off an all independent suspension variant of the next M-Class platform...we shall see.
But as the article states, I think that it will end up being a 50/50 split between "truckish" mid-sized SUV's and "car-based" mid-sized SUV's.
None of that crap matters if you don't go off-road. And obviously, people who buy these don't. People who are buying Pilots and Highlander are the same people that have bought Accords and Camrys for years. Did they take their Accords and Camrys off-road? No. Do they have some newfound joy for taking a Pilot or Highlander off-road? No. They're just moving up to a bigger vechile that has a lot more cargo room to haul their sh!t, has better traction, more space for their expanding bellys, and more cargo room
Can't fault them for that.
You are right. I realized after I posted my original reply that my post was out-of-context.
it's early yet...only one cup of coffee.
- Oct 9, 1999
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I agree there. The Japanese will quickly start slicing and dicing in the SUV ranks and compact/mid-sized pickup market, but it will take a LONG time before they start making the Big-3 take notice of them in the full-size pickup market.
I'm still waiting to see how Nissan's Murano mid-ute will turn out.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
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I think there'll always be a market for two types of SUVs that are getting shuffled behind the curtains:
Hard core off roaders (ie: Wrangler)
Stationwagon equivilent to trucks (ie: Suburban)
The main reason why the latter will be around is because some people have a requirement for heavy towing, but have a family and need space to put thier kids. The former on the otherhand is a highly visible part of the market where people are sometimes willing to sacrifice most, and sometimes all, of the convinineces of a car for the pursuit of going where no man ever thought a wheeled vehicle could go. I'm expecting a majority of the SUV market to be thinned out eventually (15 years?) when people remember how thier cars DID have a car like ride and were often quite peppy and economical.
My car? I got a Dakota because I _WANTED_ the truck like ride and a V8-RWD setup. And muscle cars, as cheap as they are, were just outside of my budget (I still cry over the loss of the Firebird, and still have a place in my heart for the last real Impala SS)
Hard core off roaders (ie: Wrangler)
Stationwagon equivilent to trucks (ie: Suburban)
The main reason why the latter will be around is because some people have a requirement for heavy towing, but have a family and need space to put thier kids. The former on the otherhand is a highly visible part of the market where people are sometimes willing to sacrifice most, and sometimes all, of the convinineces of a car for the pursuit of going where no man ever thought a wheeled vehicle could go. I'm expecting a majority of the SUV market to be thinned out eventually (15 years?) when people remember how thier cars DID have a car like ride and were often quite peppy and economical.
My car? I got a Dakota because I _WANTED_ the truck like ride and a V8-RWD setup. And muscle cars, as cheap as they are, were just outside of my budget (I still cry over the loss of the Firebird, and still have a place in my heart for the last real Impala SS)
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
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*points to the SUV trend*
Consider high margin-easy sell SUVs vs. the low margin car market. My dad used to work for Pacific Bell and they all had Suburbans in his dept. until the SUV craze hit and then they were priced out of range. The muscle car market isn't a high seller (about 40,000 cars between GM and Ford), but is high visibility. The "rice" market's also eaten heavily into it as parents and kids buy an Acura RSX thinking it's cheaper, faster, and more fuel efficient than a Camero (which isn't really true, they're the same price, the Camero is MUCH faster, and the fuel efficency doesn't show a huge difference). Personally if I'm gonna pay $25k for a compact car it better be a full on sports car. "Sporty" just isn't gonna cut it.
Summary:
Ricers took the market away.
SUVs took the desire to build them away.
Consider high margin-easy sell SUVs vs. the low margin car market. My dad used to work for Pacific Bell and they all had Suburbans in his dept. until the SUV craze hit and then they were priced out of range. The muscle car market isn't a high seller (about 40,000 cars between GM and Ford), but is high visibility. The "rice" market's also eaten heavily into it as parents and kids buy an Acura RSX thinking it's cheaper, faster, and more fuel efficient than a Camero (which isn't really true, they're the same price, the Camero is MUCH faster, and the fuel efficency doesn't show a huge difference). Personally if I'm gonna pay $25k for a compact car it better be a full on sports car. "Sporty" just isn't gonna cut it.
Summary:
Ricers took the market away.
SUVs took the desire to build them away.
The Honda Pilot is the ugliest vehicle I've ever seen. I think most of the initial sales are coming from diehard Honda fans who have been waiting 10 or 15 years for an SUV made by Honda.
People talk as if the Japanese started making SUV's last Tuesday. The Japanese - with the exception of Honda - tried to cash in on the SUV fad back in the early 90's, just when the Big Three were. Except, Japanese SUV's never became popular. The fact is, Japanese SUV's still aren't popular. I think even Chrysler sells more SUVs than all the foreign makes combined. With the Japs churning out utter crap like the Honda Pilot, I don't think Detroit has anything to worry about.
People talk as if the Japanese started making SUV's last Tuesday. The Japanese - with the exception of Honda - tried to cash in on the SUV fad back in the early 90's, just when the Big Three were. Except, Japanese SUV's never became popular. The fact is, Japanese SUV's still aren't popular. I think even Chrysler sells more SUVs than all the foreign makes combined. With the Japs churning out utter crap like the Honda Pilot, I don't think Detroit has anything to worry about.
Adul
Elite Member
just slap on a dual coffee can exhaust, some type R stickers, lower it, and throw on a huige ass rear wing.
A MUCH better execution than the new Accord- pretty nice. I think I'd plus size the wheels an inch or two, but black on black would look good. Question is, how long will it be before we start to see these things covered in Land Rover, WARN, Mickey Thompson and "It's a Jeep thing- you wouldn't understand." stickers?
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
- 81
Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
A MUCH better execution than the new Accord- pretty nice. I think I'd plus size the wheels an inch or two, but black on black would look good. Question is, how long will it be before we start to see these things covered in Land Rover, WARN, Mickey Thompson and "It's a Jeep thing- you wouldn't understand." stickers?
I'm still waiting to hear a story where some RX300 shows up for the Jeepers Jamboree where they go over the Rubicon (only about an hour or two drive from my house). The best SUV ad I've ever seen was one that said "Would you take a $40,000 SUV across this?" (it oddly enough looked like the type of terrain my dad's taken my mom's Cherokee over).
Tip: easy way to tell the guys who use thier SUVs, check the underpinnings, black==pavement, brown==dirt.
MichaelD
Lifer
- Jan 16, 2001
- 31,528
- 3
- 76
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
A MUCH better execution than the new Accord- pretty nice. I think I'd plus size the wheels an inch or two, but black on black would look good. Question is, how long will it be before we start to see these things covered in Land Rover, WARN, Mickey Thompson and "It's a Jeep thing- you wouldn't understand." stickers?
I'm still waiting to hear a story where some RX300 shows up for the Jeepers Jamboree where they go over the Rubicon (only about an hour or two drive from my house). The best SUV ad I've ever seen was one that said "Would you take a $40,000 SUV across this?" (it oddly enough looked like the type of terrain my dad's taken my mom's Cherokee over).
Tip: easy way to tell the guys who use thier SUVs, check the underpinnings, black==pavement, brown==dirt.
True, in most cases. See, I wheel my Trooper. But i also wash it, including the undercarriage!
That ad your refer to was for a Suzuki XL-7 or Grand Vitara...one of the two. You live an hour from the Rubicon? *turns green with envy* Can I be your friend so I can come visit?
With the Japs churning out utter crap like the Honda Pilot, I don't think Detroit has anything to worry about.
You didn't read the article obviously. Analysts say the Pilot is what the market wants, and when you combine that with Honda quality, you are going to get a lot of sale. Honda has a cash cow in the Pilot.
You didn't read the article obviously. Analysts say the Pilot is what the market wants, and when you combine that with Honda quality, you are going to get a lot of sale. Honda has a cash cow in the Pilot.
- Mar 20, 2000
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when did they go from being "compact" to "mid-size?" and doesn't honda claim the pilot is "full size" in their ads?Originally posted by: NFS4
http://www.auto.com/reviews/pilot27_20020727.htm
Photo Gallery
Booyah...hittin' where it counts in the mid-sized market
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
- 81
- Oct 9, 1999
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The CRV is Compact...the Pilot is mid-sized and has the same (if not MORE) cargo space than the Explorer due to its width.
The initial sales will NOT fall off. Sales can only go up until they level off. Honda can't build enough of them right now (they are expanding one of their plants for Oddyssey/Pilot/MDX production) and people are paying way over MSRP and waiting for up to a month to get a Pilot. Honda's Odyssey was the only major minivan last year to see an increase in sales instead of a steady drop off of 15-25% like the rest of the minivan sector. DID YOU EVEN READ THE ARTICLE???
Honda's usually don't have a dramatic rise or fall in sales. They usually stay right around in the same area from year to year. For the Accord, it's around the 390k - 400k mark, and around 280k - 300k a year.
Honda's (and Toyotas) have a steady sales record for a reason.
Also, if you are going to spout off stuff, at least have the number to back yourself up.
1) Honda tried to cash in on the SUV craze by rebadging the Isuzu Rodeo as the Passport as early as 1994 (I guess you didn't read the article or you would have known that).
2) Quit thinking and do some research. As to Chrysler selling more SUVs than ALL the imports combined. BULLSH!T in recent years. Sales through May 2002:
Jeep Grand Cherokee 87,149
Jeep Liberty: 60,399
Jeep Wrangler: 25,218
Dodge Durango: 44,846
Total: 217,612
Toyota alone has sales through May 2002 of:
RAV4: 34,324
Highlander: 46,229
4-Runner: 30,773
Land Cruiser: 2,588
Sequoia: 29,059
Total: 142,973
That's not even counting Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Subaru, Suzuki, and the rest. And since you said ALL imports, that's not even counting Land Rover, Hyundai, Mercedes, and BMW.
As for Honda's being crap. They are #2 in quality rating right behind Toyota.
Check please
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
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Also check out Honda's Pilot website. They let you make some rather cool comparisons to other vehicle:
http://pilot.honda.com/home.asp
I compared it to our Highlander and it obliterates it on interior space. It also beats the Explorer on just about all interior measurements.
http://pilot.honda.com/home.asp
I compared it to our Highlander and it obliterates it on interior space. It also beats the Explorer on just about all interior measurements.
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