CCW 1 / Robber 0

[jlee]

I base my "common sense" on statistics. What are you basing yours on? In countries where guns are heavily regulated, they have fewer gun deaths and the ratio is anywhere from half to less than a tenth.

It's not hard to understand why so many people are incensed by these ideas. Most gun owners are responsible and gun control curtails their rights based on the misdeeds of a very small minority of them. However, the rights of 1000000 gun owners to own guns don't superceed the right of even 1 person to his/her life. That's imo of course.

Then why are you not campaigning to ban alcohol? We all know how well prohibition worked!

 

[pontifex]

I base my "common sense" on statistics. What are you basing yours on? In countries where guns are heavily regulated, they have fewer gun deaths and the ratio is anywhere from half to less than a tenth.

It's not hard to understand why so many people are incensed by these ideas. Most gun owners are responsible and gun control curtails their rights based on the misdeeds of a very small minority of them. However, the rights of 1000000 gun owners to own guns don't superceed the right of even 1 person to his/her life. That's imo of course.

how high are their non-gun deaths compared to ours then? you conveniently leave that out.

 

[OverVolt]

For every story where a gun "saved" someone, there are hundreds where easy access to guns leads to tragedy. The net utility of loose gun policy is literally and figuratively in the red. Of course Americans are so desensitzed to gun violence that it probably doesn't matter anymore.

Germany had tight gun control before the holocaust. I'm pretty sure even if its only 10% related then loose gun policy is way in the green. I do know what you are talking about, but I think it comes out positive in the long run.

They were very disarmed after WWI and it made the holocaust easier for sure. I think its a modern example that makes it more clear why the 2nd amendment is there.

From wiki in 1938: "Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or ownership of firearms and ammunition.[6]"

Yikes :0

I don't think it could be any clearer.

I agree accidents are unfortunate and people should store them safely, but that despite the accidents and crazy people who manage to get their hands on one they do more good than harm.

 

[rh71]

Then why are you not campaigning to ban alcohol? We all know how well prohibition worked!

people can't control themselves - doesn't make it ok.

 

[Lemon law]

Our consealed weapons idiot is damn lucky. If you are going to shoot a criminal, best shoot to kill or else. As it is our CCW idiot only scored a hip shot that even failed to prevent the criminals ability to run.

OK OK that criminal was an idiot, but most self respecting criminals only lightly wounded would have used the shot gun to shoot down the CCW a few seconds later.

Even if our criminal was using #9 bird shot, at that that probable range it would act just like a solid ounce shotgun slug.

Would you take that chance at even worse odds than Russian Roulette?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Our consealed weapons idiot is damn lucky. If you are going to shoot a criminal, best shoot to kill or else. As it is our CCW idiot only scored a hip shot that even failed to prevent the criminals ability to run.

OK OK that criminal was an idiot, but most self respecting criminals only lightly wounded would have used the shot gun to shoot down the CCW a few seconds later.

Even if our criminal was using #9 bird shot, at that that probable range it would act just like a solid ounce shotgun slug.

Would you take that chance at even worse odds than Russian Roulette?

Yeah, the guy in the op's story is an idiot, but not nearly as stupid as a million backwater Palestinians that think they can take on Israel with rocks and homemade bombs.

 

[xj0hnx]

I base my "common sense" on statistics. What are you basing yours on? In countries where guns are heavily regulated, they have fewer gun deaths and the ratio is anywhere from half to less than a tenth.

You should look at the statistics more closely. In America we have many different states, with many different laws, if you had a shred of honesty about you, you'd realize that here the places with the higher gun rimes, also have the most restrictive laws. And stop looking at only zomg!! gun crimes, and compare those precious antigun countries murder rates. Just because they aren't being killed with guns, doesn't mean they aren't being killed.

 

[OverVolt]

You should look at the statistics more closely. In America we have many different states, with many different laws, if you had a shred of honesty about you, you'd realize that here the places with the higher gun rimes, also have the most restrictive laws. And stop looking at only zomg!! gun crimes, and compare those precious antigun countries murder rates. Just because they aren't being killed with guns, doesn't mean they aren't being killed.

Agreed. Two of the places with the most restrictive gun laws: Detroit, Chicago.

Two of the places with the highest crime and murder rates... Detroit, Chicago.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Yeah, the guy in the op's story is an idiot, but not nearly as stupid as a million backwater Palestinians that think they can take on Israel with rocks and homemade bombs.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[PrinceofWands]

For every story where a gun "saved" someone, there are hundreds where easy access to guns leads to tragedy. The net utility of loose gun policy is literally and figuratively in the red. Of course Americans are so desensitzed to gun violence that it probably doesn't matter anymore.

No, there's not, in fact it's equal or the opposite according to all available research and data. But you go on thinking exactly wrong.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I base my "common sense" on statistics. What are you basing yours on? In countries where guns are heavily regulated, they have fewer gun deaths and the ratio is anywhere from half to less than a tenth.

It's not hard to understand why so many people are incensed by these ideas. Most gun owners are responsible and gun control curtails their rights based on the misdeeds of a very small minority of them. However, the rights of 1000000 gun owners to own guns don't superceed the right of even 1 person to his/her life. That's imo of course.

Except, of course, where it isn't. In reviews of all gun control studies it has been found that no such conclusions are possible. So are you claiming to know more than the NAS and CDC, or are you just going admit being an ignorant armchair politician without the slightest idea of what he's talking about?

 

[PrinceofWands]

A non-exhaustive google search turned up multiple sources with similar info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Yes, and SA, 1st on your list, is 50th in gun ownership with a near total ban on private ownership (more than 2 years wait to try to get licensed for one).

Colombia, 2nd on your list, is 91st in gun ownership and HIGHLY restrictive laws.

El Salvador, 3rd on your list, is 92nd in gun ownership, etc, etc, etc. I could do this all day. But let's look at the opposite ends of the spectrums.

Switzerland is 4th in gun ownership, but 19th on your list. Sweden is 10th in gun ownership, but 36th in your list. Germany is 15th in ownership, but 40th on your list. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

[BoberFett]

Americans and their guns, what a fucking joke.

American tourist who lamented lack of gun during encounter in Calgary park sparks online ridicule

Wait, what? That story seems to be about an off duty cop. Are you saying cops should be disarmed?

 

[MrColin]

If that was me, I say "hey free shotgun!" ...and there would be no news story.

 

[_Rick_]

Agreed. Two of the places with the most restrictive gun laws: Detroit, Chicago.

Two of the places with the highest crime and murder rates... Detroit, Chicago.

Could it be, that restrictive gun laws were introduced because of the high incidence of crime involving hand guns?
That would still leave a large amount of in circulation (not to mention criminals have easy access to guns from elsewhere in the country), so crime would be still be high.
On the other hand, the total amount of deaths caused by guns may sink, if people don't pull on robbers. Pulling on someone is more likely to get you killed than just having them take your stuff. Or getting a by-stander killed, for that matter.

Also, it's probably the same kind of thought that causes the crimes as the one that allows gun-ownership. People that institutionalize poverty (prime cause for careers in crime) by promoting the belief in freedom of the self before society are often the same people that promote lax gun laws. This is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. First you create criminals, then you give them trivial access to weapons, then you make them desperate enough that getting killed over a few hundred dollars suddenly is totally worth it.
Anyone with just a little bit of empathy would see this, but it seems empathy has been weeded out, because it is un-American.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Yeah, the guy in the op's story is an idiot, but not nearly as stupid as a million backwater Palestinians that think they can take on Israel with rocks and homemade bombs.

Still not as stupid as that UK guy smuggling kilograms of heroin into China then claiming being mentally ill when caught. A death penalty well deserved; it's hilarious how dumb liberals stoop so low to even defend that criminal.

 

[Baked]

You shoot to kill! Always aim for the head.

 

[Number1]

Wait, what? That story seems to be about an off duty cop. Are you saying cops should be disarmed?

Friking right your law enforcement officers should be disarmed when visiting our country. This idiot thought he was being attacked by people who asked him if he had been to the Calgary stampede and would have pulled his gun on them.

 

[OverVolt]

Could it be, that restrictive gun laws were introduced because of the high incidence of crime involving hand guns?
That would still leave a large amount of in circulation (not to mention criminals have easy access to guns from elsewhere in the country), so crime would be still be high.
On the other hand, the total amount of deaths caused by guns may sink, if people don't pull on robbers. Pulling on someone is more likely to get you killed than just having them take your stuff. Or getting a by-stander killed, for that matter.

Also, it's probably the same kind of thought that causes the crimes as the one that allows gun-ownership. People that institutionalize poverty (prime cause for careers in crime) by promoting the belief in freedom of the self before society are often the same people that promote lax gun laws. This is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. First you create criminals, then you give them trivial access to weapons, then you make them desperate enough that getting killed over a few hundred dollars suddenly is totally worth it.
Anyone with just a little bit of empathy would see this, but it seems empathy has been weeded out, because it is un-American.

What lol, they are both dangerous places. Its funny how every other unemployed gangbanger on the streets of Detroit probably has a gun on them, but an actual law abiding citizen is defenseless. It's like this 24/7, what do you think the result is?

I was robbed and I was defenseless once, and guess who was there to help? My friendly neighborhood gangbanger passed by and said if they shot me he woulda shot them, since he too had an illegal firearm too. Just terrific. I was definitely the last one to get the memo about that, as in, I was robbed at gunpoint. Lol. Its easy to sit in the suburbs or something and hammer away at your keyboard. Go to any one of these places and its obvious in a minute.

Most of these local governments are corrupt to a degree and don't really care about what goes on in their district in reality. In Baltimore city most of the bureaucrats live in Baltimore County. Their latest move of genius was shutting down about some fire houses in Baltimore. In the long run its obvious: more property damage from fires, ultimately bad overall for the city. The Firefighters were a worthwhile investment. It doesn't affect them though, so they don't care. They have family members who need jobs and the budget had to be trimmed. You might think I am exaggerating or using hyperbole, but I am not. Go look it up from your suburb armchair.

 

[ichy]

For every story where a gun "saved" someone, there are hundreds where easy access to guns leads to tragedy.

You're a liar. Show one tiny shred of evidence to back up what you're saying.

 

[ichy]

I base my "common sense" on statistics. What are you basing yours on? In countries where guns are heavily regulated, they have fewer gun deaths and the ratio is anywhere from half to less than a tenth.

And yet in Switzerland where every man gets an assault rifle the gun death rate is also much lower than in the US.

 

[Number1]

You're a liar. Show one tiny shred of evidence to back up what you're saying.

I am on his side and asked him the same question and all he came up with was a meaningless google search result.

 

[ichy]

In fairness most of the time a concealed weapon is of no use during a mugging. If you're going to be robbed on the street chances are the crook will get you by surprise and you won't have an opportunity to access your gun.

 

[ichy]

There are many, many factors that go into a country's homicide rate. Comparing the US to a Western European nation and pretending that the only variable is gun laws is absurd.

Unlike some NRA types I'm willing to acknowledge that tight gun control works in some places. Japan and Singapore come to mind. Their societies & cultures are VERY different than ours though.

 

[lothar]

And yet in Switzerland where every man gets an assault rifle the gun death rate is also much lower than in the US.

This.

-Lothar