Carter Accuses Jewish Group of ?Slander? After Questioning Controversial Book

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Vich

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2000
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Heh. Citing interpretation of Koranic verse doesn't negate history, Vich...

The Ottomans welcomed the Sephardim, expelled from Christian Spain, and Jews and Muslims stood shoulder to shoulder in the defense of Jerusalem hundreds of years earlier...

Factual information. But, then, facts that stand in contradiction to what you believe are easily discarded, right?

They are not interpretations they are translations of Koranic verse into English.

It is surprising how you cannot even accept what is written in the Koran. Go pickup a Koran and lookup the verses.
You need to stop discarding what you don't believe in even though its starring you right in the face from the Islamic holy book.
If you don't believe what is written in the Koran then you might as well stop debating with me.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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You're the one defining Jews as "infidels" and "pagans", not the Koran itself, which establishes that they are "People of the Book", the old testament, which Muslims accept as scripture... citing "some scholars of Islam" as being the general interpretation of the Koran is like citing Jim Jones or Koresh as interpreters of the Bible....

Obviously, muslims have historically rejected your interpretation, or they wouldn't have accepted Jews... But they did, even when Christians did not, indicating that you're pretty much beating the proverbial dead horse...

Solely for the purpose of demonizing Muslims in general, spreading the usual Zionist propaganda...
 

Vich

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2000
2,849
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
You're the one defining Jews as "infidels" and "pagans", not the Koran itself, which establishes that they are "People of the Book", the old testament, which Muslims accept as scripture... citing "some scholars of Islam" as being the general interpretation of the Koran is like citing Jim Jones or Koresh as interpreters of the Bible....

Obviously, muslims have historically rejected your interpretation, or they wouldn't have accepted Jews... But they did, even when Christians did not, indicating that you're pretty much beating the proverbial dead horse...

Solely for the purpose of demonizing Muslims in general, spreading the usual Zionist propaganda...

You obviously do not understand Islamic doctrine of naksh, or "abrogation". If you did you would understand that what you say is absolutely wrong.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You obviously do not understand Islamic doctrine of naksh, or "abrogation". If you did you would understand that what you say is absolutely wrong.

So History is wrong? Jews didn't defend Jerusalem alongside Muslims against the Crusaders? The Sephardim weren't allowed to settle in the Ottoman Empire?

If I'm so wrong, then how could those things be historical fact?
 

Vich

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2000
2,849
1
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
You obviously do not understand Islamic doctrine of naksh, or "abrogation". If you did you would understand that what you say is absolutely wrong.

So History is wrong? Jews didn't defend Jerusalem alongside Muslims against the Crusaders? The Sephardim weren't allowed to settle in the Ottoman Empire?

If I'm so wrong, then how could those things be historical fact?

You are misunderstanding my point. Go ahead and re-read what i said about the various versus. Naksh explains why the People of the Book is meaningless.

You can keep throwing out some pointless historical fact. Muslims ( and any people for that matter ) will do what is adventitious for them to continue to survive and thrive. That does not erase what is written in the Koran.

/thread.
 

libs0n

Member
May 16, 2005
197
0
76
Originally posted by: Vich
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Heh. Citing interpretation of Koranic verse doesn't negate history, Vich...

The Ottomans welcomed the Sephardim, expelled from Christian Spain, and Jews and Muslims stood shoulder to shoulder in the defense of Jerusalem hundreds of years earlier...

Factual information. But, then, facts that stand in contradiction to what you believe are easily discarded, right?

They are not interpretations they are translations of Koranic verse into English.

It is surprising how you cannot even accept what is written in the Koran. Go pickup a Koran and lookup the verses.
You need to stop discarding what you don't believe in even though its starring you right in the face from the Islamic holy book.
If you don't believe what is written in the Koran then you might as well stop debating with me.

I'm not a Muslim, and thus do not know one way or the other what is in the Koran or not. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. However, I do know that there are sections in the Bible that are not representative of the views of the majority of Christians. If I were to call all Christians wannabe slave owners because there are instructions on the treatment of slaves in the Bible, I would be stretching my case by a wide degree. I feel the same about your utter condemnation of an entire swath of people due to what you perceive as their beliefs based upon chosen sections of their literature that you single out.

So, did anyone who posted in this thread actually read Carter's book? I'm waiting for my copy in the library's request queue. As that will take awile due to the demand, perhaps I'll listen to the audiobook before then.
 

Vich

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2000
2,849
1
0
Originally posted by: libs0n
Originally posted by: Vich
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Heh. Citing interpretation of Koranic verse doesn't negate history, Vich...

The Ottomans welcomed the Sephardim, expelled from Christian Spain, and Jews and Muslims stood shoulder to shoulder in the defense of Jerusalem hundreds of years earlier...

Factual information. But, then, facts that stand in contradiction to what you believe are easily discarded, right?

They are not interpretations they are translations of Koranic verse into English.

It is surprising how you cannot even accept what is written in the Koran. Go pickup a Koran and lookup the verses.
You need to stop discarding what you don't believe in even though its starring you right in the face from the Islamic holy book.
If you don't believe what is written in the Koran then you might as well stop debating with me.

I'm not a Muslim, and thus do not know one way or the other what is in the Koran or not. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. However, I do know that there are sections in the Bible that are not representative of the views of the majority of Christians. If I were to call all Christians wannabe slave owners because there are instructions on the treatment of slaves in the Bible, I would be stretching my case by a wide degree. I feel the same about your utter condemnation of an entire swath of people due to what you perceive as their beliefs based upon chosen sections of their literature that you single out.

So, did anyone who posted in this thread actually read Carter's book? I'm waiting for my copy in the library's request queue. As that will take awile due to the demand, perhaps I'll listen to the audiobook before then.

I am not condemning an entire swath of people. However, on a whole Muslims are a lot more religious and stringent on there views of the Koran.
 
Aug 1, 2006
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Heh. The pro Israeli/Jewish lobby is out in force. Do not fvck with the Jews, true or not. You will be trashed. Frankly, I think Carter is entitled to his take on events. He's entitled to write a book. The response is overblown, over the top, whacked out, psychotic. Which is the usual response to anything which might be perceived as negative to Israel or the Jews.
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,730
16
81
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Heh. The pro Israeli/Jewish lobby is out in force. Do not fvck with the Jews, true or not. You will be trashed. Frankly, I think Carter is entitled to his take on events. He's entitled to write a book. The response is overblown, over the top, whacked out, psychotic. Which is the usual response to anything which might be perceived as negative to Israel or the Jews.
I agree that the Anti-Semitism card gets played too easily. I guess thousands of years of wanton murder, torture, burning at the stake, pogroms, beating, rapings, etc. can have the result of making Jews overly defensive.
 
Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Heh. The pro Israeli/Jewish lobby is out in force. Do not fvck with the Jews, true or not. You will be trashed. Frankly, I think Carter is entitled to his take on events. He's entitled to write a book. The response is overblown, over the top, whacked out, psychotic. Which is the usual response to anything which might be perceived as negative to Israel or the Jews.
I agree that the Anti-Semitism card gets played too easily. I guess thousands of years of wanton murder, torture, burning at the stake, pogroms, beating, rapings, etc. can have the result of making Jews overly defensive.

Right on cue. Thanks.
 

nullzero

Senior member
Jan 15, 2005
670
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Jews are so defensive because complete genocide during WW2 was almost accomplished.
 

Vich

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2000
2,849
1
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Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Other people throughout history have never been victimized!

True others have been victimized, however no other people have been as victimized throughout history as much as the jews.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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There is quite another way to look at it---right now this Israeli conflict is close to 59 years old. With Israel more determined to (a) Hide behind its military might. (b) Israel continues to fan the flames of hatred ever higher. (c) If anything, any peace plans looks further away than ever.

Given that the USA has a huge interest in a peaceful and stable mid-east, maybe the Carter ideas should be given very thoughtful consideration because the USA's one sided support of Israel is leading nowhere and is proving to be a rather HUGE FAILURE.----------long term, current US policy is not even in the interests of Israel.
 

nullzero

Senior member
Jan 15, 2005
670
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
There is quite another way to look at it---right now this Israeli conflict is close to 59 years old. With Israel more determined to (a) Hide behind its military might. (b) Israel continues to fan the flames of hatred ever higher. (c) If anything, any peace plans looks further away than ever.

Given that the USA has a huge interest in a peaceful and stable mid-east, maybe the Carter ideas should be given very thoughtful consideration because the USA's one sided support of Israel is leading nowhere and is proving to be a rather HUGE FAILURE.----------long term, current US policy is not even in the interests of Israel.

The majority of palestinians will never agree to peace unless it means control of all of Israel and Jerusalem. The land never belonged to the Palestinians in the first place (The Jews were living on the land before there was even a muslim faith.), so they should just just move on and have the other greedy arab countries take them in, or kill each other off by infighting. Not like the Palestinians ever contributed anything to humanity other then violence and the sucide bomber.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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Originally posted by: Vich
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Other people throughout history have never been victimized!

True others have been victimized, however no other people have been as victimized throughout history as much as the jews.

That's BS. I'm sure some groups have become EXTINCT because of the abuse given to them. What makes Jews different is that they are the supposed harbinger of monotheism, which is absolute garbage if people would do their history lessons. They are victims nonetheless and should be sensitive to these accusations considering what has happened to them. It's no different than blacks being sensitive to racism. Neverthtless, Israel should not get a pass because of her people's victim status.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
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Originally posted by: nullzero
The majority of palestinians will never agree to peace unless it means control of all of Israel and Jerusalem. The land never belonged to the Palestinians in the first place (The Jews were living on the land before there was even a muslim faith.), so they should just just move on and have the other greedy arab countries take them in, or kill each other off by infighting. Not like the Palestinians ever contributed anything to humanity other then the sucide bomber.

I was waiting for this comment.... So in other words, Jews own that land and have always owned that land, Palaestinians who were there 70 years ago need to move on because they are worthless anyways. Thats how I can summerize that comment. I'm sure other Jews feel the same way. Glad you said it, and not me.

But I'm the one who is the delusional bigot racist who is ignorant and got beat in a spelling b in 4th grade by a jew. :)

To me that comment you just said is more racist than anything else I read in this thread. Good job with that.

"brandonb is an antisemite.... in 3....2......"

 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
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Originally posted by: brandonb
Originally posted by: nullzero
The majority of palestinians will never agree to peace unless it means control of all of Israel and Jerusalem. The land never belonged to the Palestinians in the first place (The Jews were living on the land before there was even a muslim faith.), so they should just just move on and have the other greedy arab countries take them in, or kill each other off by infighting. Not like the Palestinians ever contributed anything to humanity other then the sucide bomber.

I was waiting for this comment.... So in other words, Jews own that land and have always owned that land, Palaestinians who were there 70 years ago need to move on because they are worthless anyways. Thats how I can summerize that comment. I'm sure other Jews feel the same way. Glad you said it, and not me.

But I'm the one who is the delusional bigot racist who is ignorant and got beat in a spelling b in 4th grade by a jew. :)

To me that comment you just said is more racist than anything else I read in this thread. Good job with that.

"brandonb is an antisemite.... in 3....2......"

Wow, I missed that one. He really went hard against the Palestinians. Unfortunately, for him, the Jews are from Iraq. They claimed that "God" promised them that land and went to live there. By that logic, anyone is entitled to the land because their "God" told them to. Perhaps the Jews should join the Shia and Sunnis in the fight for Iraq. Then again, considering that almost all the neo-cons are Jews, maybe that's exactly what they're doing.
 

nullzero

Senior member
Jan 15, 2005
670
0
0
Some interesting info on Israel and the Palestinians;

"Arafat himself was born in Egypt. He later moved to Jerusalem. Indeed, most of the Arabs living within the borders of Israel today have come from some other Arab country at some time in their life.

For instance, just since the beginning of the Oslo Accords, more than 400,000 Arabs have entered the West Bank or Gaza. They have come from Jordan, Egypt and, indirectly, from every other Arab country you can name."

"The Arabs have built 261 settlements in the West Bank since 1967. We don't hear much about those settlements. We hear instead about the number of Jewish settlements that have been created. We hear how destabilizing they are -- how provocative they are. Yet, by comparison, only 144 Jewish settlements have been built since 1967 -- including those surrounding Jerusalem, in the West Bank and in Gaza."

"Winston Churchill said in 1939: "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." "

"The Arab population of Palestine was historically extremely low -- prior to the Jews' renewed interest in the area beginning in the early 1900s.

For instance, a travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, illustrates the fact that, even when the Islamic Ottoman Empire ruled the region, the Muslim population in Jerusalem was minimal.

The book estimates the total population of the city at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews."

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22564
 

nullzero

Senior member
Jan 15, 2005
670
0
0
Just stating the facts Palestinians were some of the first to pioneer the tactics of and mastering of the suicide bomber. Talk about a important achievement to mankind..... lol

 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
1,755
0
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It's so hilarious to hear to hear Lemon Law and Jhhnn cry over racism and and hate.

Consider this: Palestinians are allowed to work in Israel, and Israeli Arabs are not restricted from traveling in the country; in fact Arabs and Jews live side-by-side in cities like Haifa. However, if a Jew wanders into the West Bank by mistake, they will get lynched.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
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"I am a Palestinian Arab. I was born in Jerusalem. Palestine is my homeland but I cannot return there"

"I am an American Jew. I was born in the USA> Israel is not my homeland but I can "return" there"