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Car plows into crowd in Germany

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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,443
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Now that we know it was a german citizen, what does OP have to say about this? Do we need more stringent surveillance of people born in the US? Perhaps the FBI should be investigating families who are not recent immigrants or children of immigrants, since clearly it is the people who have been here the longest who are the most likely to commit terrorist acts. That's what this case has shown us.


I am quite suspicious of the daughters of the american revolution. That is probably a group comprised of people who very likely could be terrorists. Their relatives have been here forever, they aren't immigrants (not recent, anyway). How can we trust the DAR?

Well, they are descendants of participants in a violent secessionist movement. And they have 'revolution' in their name. Probably merit watching.

The OP is obviously part of the New World Alt-Right order of course. That's how he managed to pull this off. Considering the past regarding how terrorism was done, it is news whether you like it or not. No one said it's terrorism but the idea of NOT covering this is idiotic to be charitable.
True, it's newsworthy. But it is nonetheless interesting how the story becomes less interesting if and when it turns out it was anything other than Islamists. It drops one notch if it's a right-wing white guy, another notch again if it's a more obscure issue (e.g. someone angry about something that doesn't fit into the standard political categories or which doesn't even make any sense)...and becomes a total non-story if it's just another example of how lethal motorised vehicles can be and how inept or reckless or mentally unstable so many of their drivers are. Yet the dead remain just as dead.

For me it may yet be evidence of the need for more car-control - i.e. the need to do more to prevent cars accessing areas where pedestrians gather. Even without terrorists, that would still be worth doing.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,210
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Well, they are descendants of participants in a violent secessionist movement. And they have 'revolution' in their name. Probably merit watching.



True, it's newsworthy. But it is nonetheless interesting how the story becomes less interesting if and when it turns out it was anything other than Islamists. It drops one notch if it's a right-wing white guy, another notch again if it's a more obscure issue (e.g. someone angry about something that doesn't fit into the standard political categories or which doesn't even make any sense)...and becomes a total non-story if it's just another example of how lethal motorised vehicles can be and how inept or reckless or mentally unstable so many of their drivers are. Yet the dead remain just as dead.

For me it may yet be evidence of the need for more car-control - i.e. the need to do more to prevent cars accessing areas where pedestrians gather. Even without terrorists, that would still be worth doing.
That's fair enough the but "he's white so he's crazy not a terrorist" is way old. It's a fact that killings by this means have been associated with Islamacists. Now if this guy is an ISIS supporter he'd be a terrorist, and damn if that guy in Austin must have been a white Christian terrorist although he quit the religion and hadn't any evidence of dealing with terrorists groups or idealogies.

Personally I wait to figure out who did what but not discounting recent events. There's a whole lot of people who want the white guy to be a terrorist and same about "brown people". It's a count, some sport to these people who I believe get off on disaster. Rationality by the masses seems to be evaporating rapidly in favor of a team mentality.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,604
1,862
126
It's tragic and heartrending no matter who the perpetrator is, but the sad part is knowing that many people (including a few on this forum) were warming up their "ban all Muslim immigration" diatribes on the assumption that it had to be some recently-arrived Islamic extremist.

The boring answer: so long as we need cars piloted by humans, there's always the chance of something like this happening. The best you could likely do (short of mandating self-driving cars) would likely be to stage police along the more vulnerable routes so that an attacker can be taken down before they do too much damage.
You mean kind of like how a few people were salivating at the prospect that the Youtube attacker was a white male alt-right gun nutter, until it turned out to be a female militant Vegan.

Nuts come in all shapes and sizes, to include those that politcize tragedy.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,698
6,448
126
Just like clockwork, FIVR scuttles out from behind the floorboards to attack anyone who might see a connection between the attack profile, terror attacks in Europe and the demographics of those attackers. Which is funny because the only way for someone to rush to such conclusions is to themselves see a connection between the attack profile, terror attacks in Europe and the demographics of those attackers.
Look how mind bendingly, unbelievably fucking stupid you are. But then, stupidity and jumping to prejudiced conclusions is a common trait of bigots.
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,088
347
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This is one of the greatest reasons for autonomous cars.

Trucks off all sizes should be fitted with a scanning device/kill switch that breaks the vehicle and disables the engine when it senses the truck moving dangerously towards humans. It should happen as soon as possible; I'm sure driverless tech is advanced enough.

It's just that it would COST SO MUCH.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
26,987
4,073
126
Look how mind bendingly, unbelievably fucking stupid you are. But then, stupidity and jumping to prejudiced conclusions is a common trait of bigots.
To be fair it wasn't unreasonable to have a suspicion that this might have been an ISIS inspired attack given the mode of the attack and recent events. In the same way that if there was a car bomb in London I'd think IRA sympathisers or a fire bomb in southern France/Northern Spain would make me think ETA were back in business.
Admittedly I would just keep those as possibilities until more information became available...
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,354
126
I think human error in driving is by far and away the greatest reason to move toward autonomous vehicles, not that there’s a recent trend to turn them into weapons. I think the cat is out of the bag on this idea though unfortunately, and anyone that wants to do some mass damage only needs to find a vehicle to drive.
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,088
347
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I think human error in driving is by far and away the greatest reason to move toward autonomous vehicles, not that there’s a recent trend to turn them into weapons. I think the cat is out of the bag on this idea though unfortunately, and anyone that wants to do some mass damage only needs to find a vehicle to drive.
What I meant but didn't write clearly is "a reason for autonomous driving right now".

Years of testing and refinement are needed before all vehicles can coexist autonomously with each other on the road. But a kill switch for trucks, and maybe even all rented vehicles? I believe that's possible as we speak.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
8,015
5,030
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You mean kind of like how a few people were salivating at the prospect that the Youtube attacker was a white male alt-right gun nutter, until it turned out to be a female militant Vegan.

Nuts come in all shapes and sizes, to include those that politcize tragedy.
That was folly of them, too. I don't like when people rush to conclusions on any attack unless the evidence is so conspicuous that there's little doubt from the start.
 
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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,423
614
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Well at least he didn't use his gun. He would've killed 10x as many people if he had been smart enough to use that pistol instead of a vehicle.


This is just one more example of how gun control can help mitigate the damage of terrorist attacks. This terrorist was so unfamiliar with guns that he didn't feel confident enough to use one in his attack. Instead, he used a vehicle and killed a very small number of people.

If this were the US this guy would've had training and an AR-15 and there'd be dozens dead.
Fuck dude. stop the thread crapping.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,354
126
What I meant but didn't write clearly is "a reason for autonomous driving right now".

Years of testing and refinement are needed before all vehicles can coexist autonomously with each other on the road. But a kill switch for trucks, and maybe even all rented vehicles? I believe that's possible as we speak.

I’m sure there’s ways to remotely kill an engine but there would be no way for someone to have enough time to recognize the threat, process it, and find wherever the kill switch is and activate it. It’s all over in a second or two.
 

richaron

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,351
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True, it's newsworthy. But it is nonetheless interesting how the story becomes less interesting if and when it turns out it was anything other than Islamists. It drops one notch if it's a right-wing white guy, another notch again if it's a more obscure issue (e.g. someone angry about something that doesn't fit into the standard political categories or which doesn't even make any sense)...and becomes a total non-story if it's just another example of how lethal motorised vehicles can be and how inept or reckless or mentally unstable so many of their drivers are. Yet the dead remain just as dead.
It's "newsworthy" but becomes a "total non-story" if under mundane circumstances? And these mundane circumstances cause orders of magnitudes more deaths than terrorism.

I find this illogical fear and fascination with terrorism perverse. If one were actually worried about deaths they would be concerned with drink driving, mental health issues, domestic violence, and so on. But I guess plebs like banding together against a common and easily identifiable enemy...
 
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dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
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I’m sure there’s ways to remotely kill an engine but there would be no way for someone to have enough time to recognize the threat, process it, and find wherever the kill switch is and activate it. It’s all over in a second or two.
Why would it have to be remote? That's the whole point of the autonomous part of it. The engine would self-defeat.

You could program the truck route into the autonomous AI. Any deviation would kill the engine. But as I wrote before - It would cost SO MUCH that the saved lives wouldn't be worth it.

I remember reading at least a decade ago that airliners could be made almost 100% safe from crashing. But guess how much the retrofitting would cost? It would bankrupt every airline.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,354
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Why would it have to be remote? That's the whole point of the autonomous part of it. The engine would self-defeat.

You could program the truck route into the autonomous AI. Any deviation would kill the engine. But as I wrote before - It would cost SO MUCH that the saved lives wouldn't be worth it.

I remember reading at least a decade ago that airliners could be made almost 100% safe from crashing. But guess how much the retrofitting would cost? It would bankrupt every airline.
Ah. Eventually it will come as autonomous develops but it will Be years and years before they become truly commonplace.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,443
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It's "newsworthy" but becomes a "total non-story" if under mundane circumstances? And these mundane circumstances cause orders of magnitudes more deaths than terrorism.

I find this illogical fear and fascination with terrorism perverse. If one were actually worried about deaths they would be concerned with drink driving, mental health issues, domestic violence, and so on. But I guess plebs like banding together against a common and easily identifiable enemy...
Well, indeed, that was kind-of my point. But I'm just personally particularly irate about how casually we tolerate car-nage. Domestic violence is an interesting one given how frequently terrorists (of both racist and Islamist varieties) turn out to have a record of beating their wives and girlfriends. Taking that more seriously might actually have a knock-on-effect of catching a few future-terrorists as well.
 

richaron

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,351
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Well, indeed, that was kind-of my point. But I'm just personally particularly irate about how casually we tolerate car-nage. Domestic violence is an interesting one given how frequently terrorists (of both racist and Islamist varieties) turn out to have a record of beating their wives and girlfriends. Taking that more seriously might actually have a knock-on-effect of catching a few future-terrorists as well.
Yeah I was partially agreeing with you.

But I was also pointing out people's perverse obsession with terrorism. Which you just provided a lovely example of. You took a single point of my post and somehow steered it back to that topic. For example the mental health issues, which I also mentioned, would be much more applicable to all my examples and many more in society in general.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
26,987
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Sensible automobile control.
Hmmmmm. Mandatory insurance, regular maintenance checks, a licence to use which you get with an exam and training, registration of all cars...

Are you sure you want to continue on this analogy?
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,676
634
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Hmmmmm. Mandatory insurance, regular maintenance checks, a licence to use which you get with an exam and training, registration of all cars...

Are you sure you want to continue on this analogy?
Sure do. Firearms are regulated and have certain legislated requirements for ownership and proper operation. No?
 

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