car brake pads: is it still made of asbestos?

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miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
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Originally posted by: Insane3D
Miri....you are aware that is monitoring the airborne asbestos around the WTC site right? That has nothing at all to do with traffic.

*shakes head*

Why would it have nothing to do with traffic? I seriously doubt there is any naturally occuring asbestos on the island of Manhattan.
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Ohhh...I dunno...remnants from the two towers coming down? As you said...it will stay around...

The question here is brake pads, and I doubt you could get your hands on asbestos brake pads in the US if you wanted to. The few cars that *might* have asbestos in their brake pads would be the EXTREME minority...
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Miri....you are aware that is monitoring the airborne asbestos around the WTC site right? That has nothing at all to do with traffic.

*shakes head*

Why would it have nothing to do with traffic? I seriously doubt there is any naturally occuring asbestos on the island of Manhattan.

Think real hard to what happened 4 years ago.....rememeber those big buildings that WERE there? They were built in a time when asbestos was still being used.

 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Miri....you are aware that is monitoring the airborne asbestos around the WTC site right? That has nothing at all to do with traffic.

*shakes head*

Why would it have nothing to do with traffic? I seriously doubt there is any naturally occuring asbestos on the island of Manhattan.

Think real hard to what happened 4 years ago.....rememeber those big buildings that WERE there? They were built in a time when asbestos was still being used.

I doubt the asbestos from those buildings 4 years ago are still there. Theres something called rain that drains the dust from the sky and into the sewer system.

 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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http://www.consumerreports.org/main/det...d=113261&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=333137

Today, however, asbestos has been eliminated in new vehicles, because it can't meet higher performance standards and there is concern over health hazards from asbestos dust. Complaints about noise and comfort also prompted automaker suppliers to develop additional friction compounds. The aftermarket followed this trend of engineering for specific vehicle applications and now offers a dizzying array of replacement brake products under dozens of brand names. To help guide consumers in their choice of brake pads, there are now two different certification programs, which we describe below.

I'm sure if I bought $2 brake pads in Venezuela or something, they might still have asbestos, but with the many different types of BETTER PERFORMING friction materials available today, asbestos pads are a thing of the past...generally speaking.


Regardless, use some common sense miri. Why would brake manufacturers use asbestos, which is probably not only expensive and hard to find nowadays with all the stigma and regulations around it, when there are better, safer, cheaper friction materials readily available that won't open the manufacturers up to lawsuits? Also, think about it from a garages point of view. If they deal in asbestos pads, they need to follow all sorts of special procedures to dispose of them properly to an EPA center.

Simply put, they just are not used anymore...there are no up sides to it.
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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0
Originally posted by: miri
http://www.campbell.army.mil/envdiv/EQO...20containing%20brake%20shoes%202-4.pdf

30 April 2003

a. Many of the new and replaced automotive brake shoes on Post contain asbestos. Unless identified as asbestos free, assume brake pads are asbestos containing.

That means almost nothing. I see you have a idea in your head and it's not getting out anytime soon. Continue on your merry way worrying about all the asbestos brake pads out there...

Military vehicles get their brake pads from different places than your average consumer, and they probably buy the absolute most el-cheapo brake pads in bulk. Did you miss the part above where asbestos brake pads don't pass the safety requirements for new cars?

That whole policy is simply a "better safe than sorry approach"..

:roll:
 

brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
8,475
0
76
Asbestos is the best material for brake pads.. All others will squeak. Just don't go sniff your brakes every day and you should live a long cancer-free life.

 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Originally posted by: miri
http://www.campbell.army.mil/envdiv/EQO...20containing%20brake%20shoes%202-4.pdf

30 April 2003

a. Many of the new and replaced automotive brake shoes on Post contain asbestos. Unless identified as asbestos free, assume brake pads are asbestos containing.

That means almost nothing. I see you have a idea in your head and it's not getting out anytime soon. Continue on your merry way worrying about all the asbestos brake pads out there...

Military vehicles get their brake pads from different places than your average consumer, and they probably buy the absolute most el-cheapo brake pads in bulk. Did you miss the part above where asbestos brake pads don't pass the safety requirements for new cars?

That whole policy is simply a "better safe than sorry approach"..

:roll:

I never said that the majority of brake pads contain asbestos. I just said that because of brake pads there are trace amounts of asbestos in areas where it is not naturally occuring. You asked for proof of air tests, I showed you.
 

jamesave

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2000
1,610
0
76
Originally posted by: brxndxn
Asbestos is the best material for brake pads.. All others will squeak. Just don't go sniff your brakes every day and you should live a long cancer-free life.


that's what I heard too. The abestos has the best material property to stand the high temperature while braking. on the other side, it's the cheapest material compare to others ceramic materials that were used to substitute it. The difference may even as high as four folds.

Thanks everybody for the input in this thread.
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Does anyone read anymore? Asbestos is NOT the best material for brake pads anymore...it USED TO BE.

:roll:

Today, however, asbestos has been eliminated in new vehicles, because it can't meet higher performance standards
 

pkananen

Senior member
Mar 13, 2003
644
0
0
worked in the asbestos abatement industry for 4 years...as long as its not powdery and floating in the air, you're fine.
 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Does anyone read anymore? Asbestos is NOT the best material for brake pads anymore...it USED TO BE.

:roll:

Today, however, asbestos has been eliminated in new vehicles, because it can't meet higher performance standards

Its funny how I show you official governemt websites that prove asbestos is still used and you still dont believe it. But you believe one website that isnt even government affliated. LOL.



DETROIT -- Nearly 30 years after federal safety officials first warned that vehicle brakes containing asbestos posed a potential health danger to auto mechanics, the cancer-causing fiber can be found in the brake linings of millions of cars and trucks.
Even so, many mechanics do not take basic precautions against possible exposure because they assume brake pads and shoes and other automotive products no longer contain asbestos.
Of 30 brake mechanics and brake shop owners in Metro Detroit contacted by The Detroit News, 25 said they believed the fire and heat resistant natural fiber has not been used in brakes for years. The others were only vaguely aware asbestos brake linings are still sold in the United States.
Despite the confusion, efforts by federal safety officials in recent years to educate mechanics on the potential hazards of working with asbestos brakes have been spotty.
"I call it the great asbestos cover-up," said Sean Ochester, an environmental specialist for the Coordinating Committee For Automotive Repair, a nonprofit organization that advises auto repair shops on handling hazardous materials. "Asbestos brakes are still out there."

Asbestos brakes return
The confusion stems largely from a failed effort by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 1991 to ban asbestos products. The prohibition lasted 28 months before being overturned by a federal appeals court.
After the ban was lifted, asbestos brakes returned.
Most of the original brakes on new cars and trucks these days are made with synthetic materials or nonasbestos materials. One notable exception: General Motors Corp. uses asbestos brakes supplied by Delphi Corp. on the Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire small cars. GM is in the process of phasing the asbestos brakes out.
Brakes on many older cars and trucks, however, still contain asbestos. And replacement brake pads and shoes manufactured with asbestos are commonly available in auto parts stores.
"They are dumped in from Mexico, from the Far East, because they are cheap," said Jim Zamoyski, senior vice-president of Federal-Mogul Corp., a supplier of nonasbestos brakes. "A lot of the old-timers prefer them because they stop better."
At Murray's auto parts store on Woodward in Detroit, for example, asbestos-laden brake pads are distinguished by their yellow boxes and a warning that reads: "DANGER: May contain asbestos fibers/Avoid creating dust/Cancer and lung disease hazard."
Arne Anderson, a former Ford Motor Co. research engineer and brake expert, estimates that one third of drum brakes on cars and trucks on the road today contain asbestos. Less than 5 percent of pads on disc brakes are made with asbestos, he estimates.
Asbestos has long been used in brake shoes and pads. When brakes are applied, the shoe presses against the drum to slow the rotation of the tire. As the brake wears, the drums fill with brake dust.
"On the rear drums you have to beat the drums with a hammer sometimes to clean them out," said Bill Compton, who works at Muffler Man in Troy. "There is a ton of dust inside the drums. I cough up black dust all the time."


http://www.detnews.com/specialreports/2002/asbestos/a13-453346.htm
 

SVT Cobra

Lifer
Mar 29, 2005
13,264
2
0
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Generally no. Are there some 3rd world brake pads out there not used in the USA...sure. Will you get them at your local auto parts store...no.

Regardless, even if you did, it would be almost impossible to do any harm to yourself from them.

miri...alarmist much?

:thumbsup:
 

mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
My brake pads are made with asbestos. We also play with raw asbestos in geology labs. Asbestos isn't dangerous if you don't inhale it!
 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Generally no. Are there some 3rd world brake pads out there not used in the USA...sure. Will you get them at your local auto parts store...no.

Regardless, even if you did, it would be almost impossible to do any harm to yourself from them.

miri...alarmist much?

:thumbsup:

Funny how I show links showing that they are still sold yet some believe insane3d because he gets his information from consumer reports. I never said the majority of brake pads are asbestos, I just said that there are still many cars with asbestos brake linings. Any air report of any busy intersection will show asbestos in trace amounts in areas where asbestos is not naturally occuring. I showed a link to the New York asbestos monitoring station and some people here said it was because of the asbestos from the world trade center which is false, because that was 4 years ago and there was enough rain in 4 years to drain the asbestos from the world trade center area into the sewer system many times over.

And no, asbestos is not naturally occuring on the island of Manhattan.
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Does anyone read anymore? Asbestos is NOT the best material for brake pads anymore...it USED TO BE.

:roll:

Today, however, asbestos has been eliminated in new vehicles, because it can't meet higher performance standards

Its funny how I show you official governemt websites that prove asbestos is still used and you still dont believe it. But you believe one website that isnt even government affliated. LOL.



DETROIT -- Nearly 30 years after federal safety officials first warned that vehicle brakes containing asbestos posed a potential health danger to auto mechanics, the cancer-causing fiber can be found in the brake linings of millions of cars and trucks.
Even so, many mechanics do not take basic precautions against possible exposure because they assume brake pads and shoes and other automotive products no longer contain asbestos.
Of 30 brake mechanics and brake shop owners in Metro Detroit contacted by The Detroit News, 25 said they believed the fire and heat resistant natural fiber has not been used in brakes for years. The others were only vaguely aware asbestos brake linings are still sold in the United States.
Despite the confusion, efforts by federal safety officials in recent years to educate mechanics on the potential hazards of working with asbestos brakes have been spotty.
"I call it the great asbestos cover-up," said Sean Ochester, an environmental specialist for the Coordinating Committee For Automotive Repair, a nonprofit organization that advises auto repair shops on handling hazardous materials. "Asbestos brakes are still out there."

Asbestos brakes return
The confusion stems largely from a failed effort by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 1991 to ban asbestos products. The prohibition lasted 28 months before being overturned by a federal appeals court.
After the ban was lifted, asbestos brakes returned.
Most of the original brakes on new cars and trucks these days are made with synthetic materials or nonasbestos materials. One notable exception: General Motors Corp. uses asbestos brakes supplied by Delphi Corp. on the Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire small cars. GM is in the process of phasing the asbestos brakes out.
Brakes on many older cars and trucks, however, still contain asbestos. And replacement brake pads and shoes manufactured with asbestos are commonly available in auto parts stores.
"They are dumped in from Mexico, from the Far East, because they are cheap," said Jim Zamoyski, senior vice-president of Federal-Mogul Corp., a supplier of nonasbestos brakes. "A lot of the old-timers prefer them because they stop better."
At Murray's auto parts store on Woodward in Detroit, for example, asbestos-laden brake pads are distinguished by their yellow boxes and a warning that reads: "DANGER: May contain asbestos fibers/Avoid creating dust/Cancer and lung disease hazard."
Arne Anderson, a former Ford Motor Co. research engineer and brake expert, estimates that one third of drum brakes on cars and trucks on the road today contain asbestos. Less than 5 percent of pads on disc brakes are made with asbestos, he estimates.
Asbestos has long been used in brake shoes and pads. When brakes are applied, the shoe presses against the drum to slow the rotation of the tire. As the brake wears, the drums fill with brake dust.
"On the rear drums you have to beat the drums with a hammer sometimes to clean them out," said Bill Compton, who works at Muffler Man in Troy. "There is a ton of dust inside the drums. I cough up black dust all the time."


http://www.detnews.com/specialreports/2002/asbestos/a13-453346.htm


What does the government using it have to do with anything. Why would the government need higher performance brake pads than passenger cars? Do you think humvees need high performance brakes? If the government still uses them, it's probably for no other reason than they are the cheapest and they buy them in such large amounts.

It's funny how you ignore a site like Consumer Reports that clearly states that asbestos WAS the fricition material of choice, but in todays newer vehicles, it is no longer DESIRABLE for MANY reasons. These would include health risks, lack of performance compared to newer friction materials, etc.

Just in case you are still having trouble...

Military vehicle standards != modern passenger car standards.

I don't know how else to drill that into your head. Feel feel to keep your ignorance...

Your own link proves my point genius...

Most of the original brakes on new cars and trucks these days are made with synthetic materials or nonasbestos materials. One notable exception: General Motors Corp. uses asbestos brakes supplied by Delphi Corp. on the Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire small cars. GM is in the process of phasing the asbestos brakes out.

Hmmm...phasing them out eh?

Brakes on many older cars and trucks, however, still contain asbestos. And replacement brake pads and shoes manufactured with asbestos are commonly available in auto parts stores. "They are dumped in from Mexico, from the Far East, because they are cheap," said Jim Zamoyski, senior vice-president of Federal-Mogul Corp., a supplier of nonasbestos brakes. "A lot of the old-timers prefer them because they stop better."

EXACTLY what I said above. Oh, and just because "old-timers" *think* they "stop better" doesn't mean they do. You think race and high performance street cars use asbestos? If they stopped better, and they apparently were allowed to use them, don't you think they would? You think those older cars you speak of still have their original brakes? How many cars do you see with drum brakes nowadays?

At Murray's auto parts store on Woodward in Detroit, for example, asbestos-laden brake pads are distinguished by their yellow boxes and a warning that reads: "DANGER: May contain asbestos fibers/Avoid creating dust/Cancer and lung disease hazard."

Like I said...the cheap ones may still have it. Let me ask you something since you seem to know so much. If you had a choice of brake pads at the auto parts store, would you choose the ones that had a big warning about having asbestos in them when others were readily available? If you ran said auto parts stores, would you even carry them if there were so many other better performing, not CHEAP pads available WITHOUT warnings on them?


Arne Anderson, a former Ford Motor Co. research engineer and brake expert, estimates that one third of drum brakes on cars and trucks on the road today contain asbestos. Less than 5 percent of pads on disc brakes are made with asbestos, he estimates.

OMFG...can you believe it?!? That's pretty much exactly what I said above! Let me repeat for you..

Generally no. Are there some 3rd world brake pads out there not used in the USA...sure. Will you get them at your local auto parts store...no.

Regardless, even if you did, it would be almost impossible to do any harm to yourself from them.

My very first post... :roll:

Finally...

Asbestos has long been used in brake shoes and pads. When brakes are applied, the shoe presses against the drum to slow the rotation of the tire. As the brake wears, the drums fill with brake dust.
"On the rear drums you have to beat the drums with a hammer sometimes to clean them out," said Bill Compton, who works at Muffler Man in Troy. "There is a ton of dust inside the drums. I cough up black dust all the time."

I'm supposed to listen to anything some joe mechanic from "Muffler Man" has to say when he doesn't even know how to properly service brakes...you know...USING FVCKING BRAKECLEAN TO AVOID DUST like ever other freakin garage in the USA??

I'm done here. I've already shown ample proof that asbestos pads are GENERALLY a thing of the past. I even used your own links to prove what I said in my VERY FIRST FREAKIN POST.

*sigh*


 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Generally no. Are there some 3rd world brake pads out there not used in the USA...sure. Will you get them at your local auto parts store...no.

Regardless, even if you did, it would be almost impossible to do any harm to yourself from them.

miri...alarmist much?

:thumbsup:

Funny how I show links showing that they are still sold yet some believe insane3d because he gets his information from consumer reports. I never said the majority of brake pads are asbestos, I just said that there are still many cars with asbestos brake linings. Any air report of any busy intersection will show asbestos in trace amounts in areas where asbestos is not naturally occuring. I showed a link to the New York asbestos monitoring station and some people here said it was because of the asbestos from the world trade center which is false, because that was 4 years ago and there was enough rain in 4 years to drain the asbestos from the world trade center area into the sewer system many times over.

And no, asbestos is not naturally occuring on the island of Manhattan.


Gee...why did your air monitoring link have "WTC" in it? Why was that monitoring site created? Could it have been because of all the problems in air quality that resulted from the two towers coming down? I guess now it should be considered to be there to monitor asbestos in traffic intersections?

Show me some data from other intersections please? Preferably in an area where two asbestos laden skyscrapers didn't collapse four years ago.

And I never said they were not available. I said GENERALLY, they aren't. Is there asbestos in some CHEAP, 3rd WORLD pads...YES. Do the vast majority of auto parts stores sell them...NO. Was asbestos a preferred friction material years ago...yes. Is it now...NO. I NEVER said they were not still around.
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
My brake pads are made with asbestos. We also play with raw asbestos in geology labs. Asbestos isn't dangerous if you don't inhale it!

Did you buy them and install them yourself? How do you know, was there a warning label? Did you buy the absolute cheapest pads from a small auto parts store?
 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
You make no sense.

I never said that a majority of vehicles had asbestos brakes. I only said that some brakes still contain asbestos, which leaves trace amounts of asbestos in the air.

What part of that do you not understand?
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Originally posted by: miri
You make no sense.

I never said that a majority of vehicles had asbestos brakes. I only said that some brakes still contain asbestos, which leaves trace amounts of asbestos in the air.

What part of that do you not understand?

I think we agree more than we think. I'm curious though how you think the miniscule amount of vehicles that may have asbestos laden brakes cause any trace amounts of asbestos in air. How would it remain airborne? Do you really think the small amount of vehicles using these pads would cause any measurable amount of airborne asbestos? You seem to think that all the tons of asbestos from the twin towers simply washed away in 4 years, but yet the samll amount of vehicles that *might* have asbestos in the brakes will leave trace amounts in the air? Can you explain the coflict there? Does it not rain other places than NYC? Do you think the amount of brake dust emitted from a small amount of vehicles would ever be measurable?

We both agree that there are still a small amount of VERY cheap pads from the 3rd world that may still contain asbestos, but I disagree that it will cause any measurable airborne asbestos readings. I also disagree that the average consumer needs to worry if their brakes have asbestos or not.
 

KokomoGSTmp

Senior member
Aug 29, 2004
412
0
0
Either way, you shouldn't go around breathing in your brake dust. That's one of the reasons why a lot of auto techs (including myself and my mentors when I was still wrenching) wet the area with solvents to make sure they don't go airborne. Some went as far as wearing masks.

And before you go on saying that we all douch3bags because we're breathing in solvent, no... obviously you can stand away from the solvents.

Brake dust is made up of some nasty $h1t. Whether or not it has asbestos is none of my concern. I bet they find out that the carbon used in some brakes if taken in quantity over time is also carcinogenic... whole bunch of crap that I bet we'll find out is cancer-causing.

Heck, the entire world causes cancer... just don't breathe, eat, go outside, stay inside, use anything, do anything... WTF. if you're paranoid about this, you got your mind in the wrong place.
 

bootymac

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2001
9,597
0
76
Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
asbestos isn't really THAT serious of an issue, unless you're going around snorting the brake dust off of peoples' wheels.

Sh!t
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Originally posted by: KokomoGSTmp
Either way, you shouldn't go around breathing in your brake dust. That's one of the reasons why a lot of auto techs (including myself and my mentors when I was still wrenching) wet the area with solvents to make sure they don't go airborne. Some went as far as wearing masks.

And before you go on saying that we all douch3bags because we're breathing in solvent, no... obviously you can stand away from the solvents.

Brake dust is made up of some nasty $h1t. Whether or not it has asbestos is none of my concern. I bet they find out that the carbon used in some brakes if taken in quantity over time is also carcinogenic... whole bunch of crap that I bet we'll find out is cancer-causing.

Heck, the entire world causes cancer... just don't breathe, eat, go outside, stay inside, use anything, do anything... WTF. if you're paranoid about this, you got your mind in the wrong place.



Yep. Can of brakeclean...~$1-$2. Seems simple enough to me...