Canadians: Who are you voting for and why?

[eldorado99]

Dexion is the one that took my sarcastic comments so personally.

How about you shove off?

Both of the above posts were made by Mill... hmmm I think I would take that personally too. Mill Please leave, you are contributing nothing to this thread except a lot of unwanted armpit scratching and chest-pounding. This thread is not about how "great" the US is, it is about the god-damned Canadian election.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: eldorado99

Dexion is the one that took my sarcastic comments so personally.

How about you shove off?

Both of the above posts were made by Mill... hmmm I think I would take that personally too. Mill Please leave, you are contributing nothing to this thread except a lot of unwanted armpit scratching and chest-pounding. This thread is not about how "great" the US is, it is about the god-damned Canadian election.

Ah, so his comments about the US's economy crumbling weren't off-topic at all? Canadians cry about such little things. I will give you all credit -- you are all very good and totally missing any and every point I've made. I was kidding in my first post, but damn you all freak out and get butt hurt over the slightest thing. I'm going to bed. Our government lets us sleep when we want.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: eldorado99

Dexion is the one that took my sarcastic comments so personally.

How about you shove off?

Both of the above posts were made by Mill... hmmm I think I would take that personally too. Mill Please leave, you are contributing nothing to this thread except a lot of unwanted armpit scratching and chest-pounding. This thread is not about how "great" the US is, it is about the god-damned Canadian election.

Tres offensive. :roll: Especially considering it was in reply to:

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Mill, please march out of the thread. Your chest-pounding is bringing no new information relating to the OP and is only antagonizing members so that you can stroke your ego.

I'm out of this thread.

 

[Dexion]

you are all very good and totally missing any and every point I've made.

Why is your skull so thick? Don't you get it? You never really had a point.

 

[Dexion]

Our government lets us sleep when we want.

At least we don't have to sleep with a gun hidden in the bedroom.
I feel sorry for those that are stationed in Iraq right now, bet you they don't have the same freedom.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Dexion

This will be election fodder for your election.

Actually, you'll be surprised how little we talk about the US. We are more concerned about our own issues: healthcare, military spending, income tax cuts and education issues. Foriegn trade is the least of our issues.

And yet Foreign Trade, your trade deficit with the US, you're dependence on the US are all issues that effect your military spending, your economy, and your social policies. Foreign trade in a literal sense might not be an issue, because it is set in stone. There is nothing Canada can do that wouldn't be economic suicide when it comes to its reliance on the US. I also consider your smaller GDP per capita, and increased GDP spending to be an issue when it comes to your ideas of social progression. It is obvious that the increased taxes to support your social systems are running off businesses, and your highly skilled workers. They can make a lot more in the US, live a higher lifestyle, and pay less taxes on the money that they earn. I think the erosion the traditional Canadian politics in favor of a socially progressive, yet economically disastrous government is an issue the Conservatives and other parties have raised. And although I'm not inundated with Canadian politics, I do understand the party conflict and stratification that the parties have when it comes to their economic, social, and military policies.

Hate on the US all you want, but eventually you're going to need another viable trade partner and military if you want to be completely autonomous of the US and our interests.

I think that a lot of this has to do with the fact that Canada has, for the past 12 years or so, been essentially a one-party country that has met only with splitered resistance. Now that the right-wing has been unified, the Liberals are having to change their approach to politics (or tweak it, at the very least).

I also think that while there is a phenomenon of "talent exodus" it is not as broad as you portray it. In addition, it is very normal to see workers flow towards market leaders both in the US and elsewhere (it just so happens that by proximity and market positioning, most are in the US). That being said, the Canadian ideology is generally to raise everyone's standard of living rather than an everyone-for-himself strategy.

I personally, am center-right as far as Canadian politics are concerned (though I'd probably be left'ish if I were in the US). BTW, I should point out that the socially progressive government is hardly economically disastrous since there have been many surpluses in the past few years despite what I consider a bloated government. I think that while some tweaking is needed, a complete overhaul of policies is hardly what is needed at this point.

Finally, no one is "hating on the US", and I don't think that Canada can realistically expect to become autonomous of the US and their interests (not in the near to mid-term future anyhow). This does not mean that our social and economic policies should be carbon copies of the US policies. As such, US GDP figures have little bearing on what I consider is important in a party's platform and that is why it has no place in this thread (I think many will agree on this point).

Separately, if you've got a personal vendetta against some Canadian kiddie spouting off in P&N, I don't see why you would take it out on anyone in this thread. I don't visit P&N because because I want to avoid these flamefests and I don't appreciate that you vent your frustrations in a thread that has nothing to do with the causes of said frustrations.

 

[Mill]

Last comment I'll say before I'm out of the thread as well. A budget surplus is completely untenable when discussing a socialist government with high taxes. They've achieved those surpluses in the way of taxes, and not because they've got superior money management skills. That might just be my opinion, but compare 30% of GDP to 40%. As it is now, the US healthcare system is NOWHERE near as bad as some pundits try to make it look. Everyone gets emergency medical care, and about all people are covered by private, governmental, or indigent clinics/hospitals. What's not covered is elective surgeries and things that are purely a drain on the system. There's no doubt that our growing obesity problem will probably change that all. I'd like to point you toward Dexion's last few comments. You and him keep saying the US has nothing to do with the thread, but he's the one that keeps bringing up our policies. Finally, I'll be staying out of the thread from now own, but I'd like you to show me a single socialist country that's public works and extreme governmental interference has lead to prosperity, surpluses, low taxes, and a high quality of life for all. There are poor people in the US, but I'd say a vast majority of it is due to their own personal decision, and not just bad luck. There are plenty of people that lost it all, and made it all back, but many give up. That's their fault, and not an issue of the government. The government is supposed to barely be there, yet ours and yours seems to be increasingly telling everyone what to do.

 

[GL]

Originally posted by: Mill
Finally, a good post that lists facts. I've heard of discrepancies in unemployment rates, but never really found an explanation. Do you have anything at hand? I will say that the US has been attracting numerous foreign auto manufacturers(my state has gotten Hyundai, Mercedes, Honda) due to our willingness to give large tax breaks, and help create infrastructure for them. The amount of spin-off jobs due to suppliers and the trickle down effect is huge for us. Regardless, I thought that the unemployment rates were normed to those who reported being out of unemployment. I know that frictional unemployment is rarely counted, and that after cut offs for unemployment insurance some workers are no longer counted. I'd hazard to guess that it wouldn't really effect the figures too much, but it might make the gap slightly smaller or slightly larger.

The Canadian government counts people who are not employed and whose only job search method is looking at job advertisements (i.e. they aren't going on interviews), towards the unemployment rate. The American government considers this group to be out of the labour force. If the Canadian numbers are adjusted accordingly, they are 17% lower. This still does not account for the discrepancy. However, other factors come into play. The working age population in Canada actually grew faster than that in the U.S. over the 1990s while Canada's economy was still recovering from recession. Also, an unemployed Canadian is 3.5x as likely to get unemployment insurance (or EI as it's known now) than an unemployed American. These people are obviously added to the unemployment ranks -- most of them anyways as long as they report they are actively searching for work. Apparently, this accounts for 2/3 of the unemployment gap between the U.S. and Canada. And of course, as you point out, the underemployed is a grey area into itself.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: Mill
Last comment I'll say before I'm out of the thread as well. A budget surplus is completely untenable when discussing a socialist government with high taxes. They've achieved those surpluses in the way of taxes, and not because they've got superior money management skills. That might just be my opinion, but compare 30% of GDP to 40%. As it is now, the US healthcare system is NOWHERE near as bad as some pundits try to make it look. Everyone gets emergency medical care, and about all people are covered by private, governmental, or indigent clinics/hospitals. What's not covered is elective surgeries and things that are purely a drain on the system. There's no doubt that our growing obesity problem will probably change that all. I'd like to point you toward Dexion's last few comments. You and him keep saying the US has nothing to do with the thread, but he's the one that keeps bringing up our policies. Finally, I'll be staying out of the thread from now own, but I'd like you to show me a single socialist country that's public works and extreme governmental interference has lead to prosperity, surpluses, low taxes, and a high quality of life for all. There are poor people in the US, but I'd say a vast majority of it is due to their own personal decision, and not just bad luck. There are plenty of people that lost it all, and made it all back, but many give up. That's their fault, and not an issue of the government. The government is supposed to barely be there, yet ours and yours seems to be increasingly telling everyone what to do.

What you stated shows that there is a fundamental ideological difference between you and I. This is not to say that one is right and one is wrong, I don't consider low taxes a benchmark of a government success; Canada does have higher taxes but US have to pay for services that are covered in Canadian taxes. I think we can both agree that there is no free lunch, you have to pay for some things (healthcare being one of them) one way or another.

I agree that the government is getting invasive in boht countries (yours more than ours but I think this is OT from this thread). As per my last post, the American ideology is to put a price on everything and let the market fix everything, whereas Canadian ideology generally says that somethings should not be priced out and should be run in the general public's best interest. Each system has both pros and cons ("special interest" groups in the US vs government waste in Canada), for example.

Finally, I think that apart from the ideological differences, Canada as a country cannot be run as a mini-US because it is not in the the US' position nor is it likely to be in that position anywhere in the near future. If you recognize this fact, you'll realize that you can't successfully stencil the US economic/political system to Canada.

All this is MHO, of course.

 

[NoReMoRsE]

Originally posted by: RyanSengara
I never said that 'lazy people' inherity their resources and wealth. I go to the second highest ranked school in the country, where undoubtedly the average income of the parents well exceeds 500,000 dollars. Out of 147 kids in my grade, maybe 2 of them don't deserve what they are going to inherit. Most of these kids are hard workers because they are following the footsteps of the footsteps their parents took before them.

Yes, working hard to help oneself is good, but it is a higher plane of existence to help one's fellow human beings whenever one can. No harm in that.

Originally posted by: RyanSengara
If people can't afford a university education, they must be a joke. For me to attend UBC it would cost me 2000 dollars a year.

Some people can't afford $2000/year. (Hell, some people can't afford food.) Should they be denied university education and the right to a decent life (since jobs seem to depend on degrees nowadays)? I say no, we help them out, they get educated and get a good job, and contribute to the economy by spending money. It's win-win.



EDIT: And to Mill and others ranting about the U.S. and what-not: Please keep your posts on-topic. This thread is for discussion of the Canadian election, the parties involved and what they stand for. Thank you.

 

[Dexion]

Here is something new I noticed on this thread that directly relates to this topic.

I noticed that there are 4 votes on this poll(as of 1:46am on the 16th) that a certain percentage of Canadians will not contribute to the vote. I find this rather disturbing as particularly people of this our age group here on Anandtech that are completely ignoring political issues and not voicing their opinions, or simply not following the election campaigns. Granted that there are those that find the current political parties a difficult choice, and choose not to vote. I find it rather disturbing nontheless.

 

[NoReMoRsE]

Originally posted by: Dexion
Here is something new I noticed on this thread that directly relates to this topic.

I noticed that there are 4 votes on this poll(as of 1:46am on the 16th) that a certain percentage of Canadians will not contribute to the vote. I find this rather disturbing as particularly people of this our age group here on Anandtech that are completely ignoring political issues and not voicing their opinions, or simply not following the election campaigns. Granted that there are those that find the current political parties a difficult choice, and choose not to vote. I find it rather disturbing nontheless.

Note that the poll option is ambiguous, unfortunately thanks to my bad design. I didn't have separate options for if the person is not voting by choice, or if the person is not voting because he/she is younger than the voting age. My bad.

 

[SSP]

Im undecided at this point. The debate didnt help all that much. I will either vote for the liberals or NDP. The conservatives are a bit radical IMO, especially concerning the power the courts have.

 

[Dexion]

Originally posted by: SSP
Im undecided at this point. The debate didnt help all that much. I will either vote for the liberals or NDP. The conservatives are a bit radical IMO, especially concerning the power the courts have.

I too didn't think that the debate really helped much at all. I'd particularly despised Layton's unorthodoxed debating style that focused more on spewing random opinions rather than listening to what the opposition has to say.

 

[joohang]

UBC costs a lot more than $2000/year. It costs a minimum of $4000/year for tuition alone. This amount sounds like a joke compared to most universities in the east coast and the US, but what is really scary is the rate of the tuition hike.

Four years ago, I paid $2500/year. Last year, I paid around $4500. That's 80% increase in tuition over 4 years. And it constantly increasing every year at the same rate.

 

[joohang]

I want Liberals ruling with a decent NDP opposition. I am quite fine with the Liberals but I want Canada to be a bit socialist. The Conservatives scare the heck out of me, especially when they try to tie in religion with politics.

I know very little about Canadian politics, but this is the conclusion I reached so far after discussions with people who know more than I do. Enlighten me with your views.

And those who are Canadian and not voting, shame on you.

 

[Aquaman]

i predict a minority goverment with the liberals or conservatives in power.

personnally I have no choice (in my mind) but to vote liberal.

The NDP is to left & the Conservatives are just a rehash of the Reform/Alliance & I don't trust Harper.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: Dexion

Not really. This is a thread for Canadians about the Canadian election coming up. We are discussing platforms of the parties, past performances, and predictions for the future. You came in here and started to belittle our country. Go fvck yourself and start a "The USA is so great" thread where you and your kind can stroke each other off to the star spangled banner if you want to, but keep it out of here.

Can't say it better myself!

Now get the fvck out and stay the fvck out. There aren't any terrorists here, so don't even think about using that excuse to hop back in here like George Dubya would.

 

[RbSX]

Mill, pharmaceuitical superiority? are you stupid?

A new anti-biotic hasn't been made in the USA for over 25 years!

Yes pharmaceutical superiority if you consider viagra and botox injections important.

As far as advanced communications and internet, you lag so far behind canada it's a mother fvcking joke.

Have you ever wondered why sh!tty high speed costs so much? those fvcking 512/128 dsl connections you pay out your assh0les for?

Yeah, come up here, for less than 40 bucks you can have a 1.5mbit/768kbit connection.

Vancouver (the city I live in) is one of the most advanced cities in the world as far as internet. So go fvck yourself to holy hell, and don't come back in this thread.

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Mill, please march out of the thread. Your chest-pounding is bringing no new information relating to the OP and is only antagonizing members so that you can stroke your ego. Seriously, give it up nobody wants to read US GDP figures in a canadion election thread.

How about you shove off?

I dunno about that, It seems your economy is already in collapse mode. No offense, but as a smaller country we are doing fine economically.

When that is said I will respond with facts. I've posted little rhetoric(other than my first post), and after that nothing but facts, and a strong opinion based on those facts. In my first post I was actually joking, but I see Canadians have very sensitive egos. You all can't stand it because you're our lackeys.

And you wonder why Americans come off as egotistical bastards...

The truth hurts mean the insults have to come out don't they?

Not really. This is a thread for Canadians about the Canadian election coming up. We are discussing platforms of the parties, past performances, and predictions for the future. You came in here and started to belittle our country. Go fvck yourself and start a "The USA is so great" thread where you and your kind can stroke each other off to the star spangled banner if you want to, but keep it out of here.

So sully(being Canadian and all) is a turncoat then? I'm trying to figure out how my advocation of a free labor market and capitalistic policies makes you Canucks frantically cry about every US policy uinder the son. All of a sudden Iraq gets brought up, and as usual the Canadian Penis envy makes you all cry and beg that another thread be started. Dexion is the one that took my sarcastic comments so personally. If you knew anything about me you'd know I actually respect the hell out of Canada, do business there, and have Canadian friend(hi to the Skoorbs). However, I don't believe in delusional people that state the US is on the brink of economic collapse, or that I should STFU because I'm not Canadian. Have you seen what P&N is mainly made up of? Whiny Canadians bitching about OUR government, and sticking their nose in every corner of it. Turnabout should be fair play, but as usual you whine like sniveling little bitches when someone calls a spade a spade.

Fact is, most Canadians are unable to admit their place in the world, and admit the US is actually economically superior. Rest on your social laurels all you want, but those policies have a serious detriment on your national economy. You can bitch and whine and say this was an election only thread, but Dexion is bringing up just as many issues as I am. I'm not sure WHY you think an American can't comment on the Canadian elections, but Canadians are free to snipe on the USA any chance for our military, economic, and social policies. That's life my friend, and the beauty of the internet.

You're missing the point you dumb fvck. What you're missing is that we don't give a flying fvck about your USA and how it's so wonderful and economically superior. We don't give a fvck. I'd give economic superiority for having a few friends that wouldn't be ashamed to call us allies. Hmm??

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Mill
Fact is, most Canadians are unable to admit their place in the world, and admit the US is actually economically superior. Rest on your social laurels all you want, but those policies have a serious detriment on your national economy. You can bitch and whine and say this was an election only thread, but Dexion is bringing up just as many issues as I am. I'm not sure WHY you think an American can't comment on the Canadian elections, but Canadians are free to snipe on the USA any chance for our military, economic, and social policies. That's life my friend, and the beauty of the internet.

Thank you for stating your opinion, now can you please let us get back on topic?

You've said that about 87 times now, but so far you've yet to realize that this is on topic. This will be election fodder for your election.

Hello you fvcking moron, I watched the election debates tongiht and you know what, the only thing muttered about the Americans is how we don't want to become your b!tch anymore than we already are. So kiss my canadian ass.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: RyanSengara

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Mill
Fact is, most Canadians are unable to admit their place in the world, and admit the US is actually economically superior. Rest on your social laurels all you want, but those policies have a serious detriment on your national economy. You can bitch and whine and say this was an election only thread, but Dexion is bringing up just as many issues as I am. I'm not sure WHY you think an American can't comment on the Canadian elections, but Canadians are free to snipe on the USA any chance for our military, economic, and social policies. That's life my friend, and the beauty of the internet.

Thank you for stating your opinion, now can you please let us get back on topic?

You've said that about 87 times now, but so far you've yet to realize that this is on topic. This will be election fodder for your election.

Hello you fvcking moron, I watched the election debates tongiht and you know what, the only thing muttered about the Americans is how we don't want to become your b!tch anymore than we already are. So kiss my canadian ass.

Take a chill pill dude. You're a few hours too late.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Mill, pharmaceuitical superiority? are you stupid?

A new anti-biotic hasn't been made in the USA for over 25 years!

Yes pharmaceutical superiority if you consider viagra and botox injections important.

As far as advanced communications and internet, you lag so far behind canada it's a mother fvcking joke.

Have you ever wondered why sh!tty high speed costs so much? those fvcking 512/128 dsl connections you pay out your assh0les for?

Yeah, come up here, for less than 40 bucks you can have a 1.5mbit/768kbit connection.

Vancouver (the city I live in) is one of the most advanced cities in the world as far as internet. So go fvck yourself to holy hell, and don't come back in this thread.

I actually pay 39.95 for 5 Mbit/1 Mbit

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Mill, pharmaceuitical superiority? are you stupid?

A new anti-biotic hasn't been made in the USA for over 25 years!

Yes pharmaceutical superiority if you consider viagra and botox injections important.

As far as advanced communications and internet, you lag so far behind canada it's a mother fvcking joke.

Have you ever wondered why sh!tty high speed costs so much? those fvcking 512/128 dsl connections you pay out your assh0les for?

Yeah, come up here, for less than 40 bucks you can have a 1.5mbit/768kbit connection.

Vancouver (the city I live in) is one of the most advanced cities in the world as far as internet. So go fvck yourself to holy hell, and don't come back in this thread.

I actually pay 39.95 for 5 Mbit/1 Mbit

My friend in California pays 29.95 for 1.5Mbit/768kbit.

I love how more than half this thread has been feeding Mills. It really spoiled the discussion of who people are voting for. The smart thing to do was to have ignored him.

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Stupid Americans, this is NOT your thread! so STFU! Anyway, I am voting NDP for pretty much the same reasons as mentioned by: NoReMoRsE

Liberals: Sponsorgate scandal, Martin is becoming more and more conservative each day with his corporate gifts and ship lines and what not.

Conservatives: It's basically the Alliance "repackaged".. they have their values upside down: 1st priority is military, 2nd priority is health care?? WTF?? Canada can use the U.S.'s military, no need to build up our own. Plus, they seem too religious for me, opposing abortions and same-sex marriages.

NDP: Seems like a good balance.. they want to give money to the communities to build up at the municipal level, and they seem to care about everyday Canadians' needs. They could turn into another McGuinty, going back on their word, but they seem like the least of three evils.