Canadian's healthcare system is "imploding"

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Originally posted by: shira
Maybe people should look at the following income chart for physicians in the U.S. to get an understanding of just how broken our system is.

U.S. Physicians

Does anyone wonder why Canadian physicians flee to the U.S.? Does anyone else think that median incomes in the $300,000 range are a little high?

Oh, private enterprise. Great answer.

Well, gee, maybe that's one of the problems of a multi-payer system.

I don't. These people sell very many years of their life for this profession, have notoriously high stress, and represent among the smartest in society. $300k seems fine for me. If I thought it was absurd perhaps I would have become a physician. I know several and would never want their careers. Too much stress, too many hours.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Robor
A coworker of mine just had knee surgery. We both have the same plan and it is what I considered to be 'decent' health insurance. As it turns out, his rehab is $40 per session and they want him to do 3 sessions per week. Yes, this is 'in plan'. I don't know about others in this thread but tacking a $120/week bill on my budget would blow it. He went for 2 weeks and decided to save the money and see how it goes without it.

Without knowing details about what you mean by 'knee surgury', your friend is an idiot. $120/week for 10 weeks is $1200. If that's what it costs to get rehabbed and not have to limp for the rest of your life and to have a good working knee, then PAY IT. Sheesh. It's like everyone wants a perfect life for free. Your friend will probably regret his/her decision 10 years from now. $1200 will seem like such a small amount.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: shira
Maybe people should look at the following income chart for physicians in the U.S. to get an understanding of just how broken our system is.

U.S. Physicians

Does anyone wonder why Canadian physicians flee to the U.S.? Does anyone else think that median incomes in the $300,000 range are a little high?

Oh, private enterprise. Great answer.

Well, gee, maybe that's one of the problems of a multi-payer system.

I don't. These people sell very many years of their life for this profession, have notoriously high stress, and represent among the smartest in society. $300k seems fine for me. If I thought it was absurd perhaps I would have become a physician. I know several and would never want their careers. Too much stress, too many hours.

I agree. Doctors tend to have hundreds of thousands of dollars in school loans. Maybe $100k per year in malpractice insurance. They work for rediculously low pay for years doing internships and such while working 18 hour days. And dealing with whinny idiots all day is not easy. Doctors should definitly get paid a lot of money. I wouldn't want someone earning $10/hour doing brain surgury on me.

 

[deputc26]

I was born (a triple citizen, Dutch/Canadian/American) and raised in Canada, but after finishing my undergrad work I settled in the States and have been here for six years. I have been frustrated by the lack of usable data on this situation and I had last week off so I took a few dozen hours and did my own analysis of the situation.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2327740&enterthread=y

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
BTW, people, this is the president of the Canadian Medical Association, not just a quack who doesn't know the difference between a stitch and suture (and neither do I, maybe there isn't one, ha!).

the ama isn't a credible, unbiased source, is the cma any better?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: bobcpg

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The doctors here in Canada are overworked and underpaid, that's why they're complaining and saying that the system is broken. We need more doctors here. Not too many people in their right mind here even want to become a doctor any more; it's a lot of education for a job that most doctors don't seem to enjoy doing.

The lack of doctors here has very little to do with the medical system itself. It stems from the fact that we do not educate enough doctors. We only have so many medical school spaces, and some of the graduates leave for the US.

I'm sure someone else has already pointed this out, but really "lack of doctors" is part of the medical system and funny that Canadian doctors are leaving to the "broken" American system. The reason that you do not educate enough DR's is because the reward is not enough up there in Canada to be a DR not because there is not enough space.

american doctors are far, far over paid. Of course Canadian doctors want to game the system so they can get paid more too.

 

[dammitgibs]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

american doctors are far, far over paid. Of course Canadian doctors want to game the system so they can get paid more too.

That's mighty nice of you to decide how much doctors should be paid, I'll assume you will now put yourself through med school and volunteer to work for less than the other doctors to set the example for them. Thank you, sir, you are a champion of humanity.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
american doctors are far, far over paid. Of course Canadian doctors want to game the system so they can get paid more too.

Oh, can you please share with us your insightful analysis of the data that you used to come to the conclusion that they are "far, far over paid"? Or did you just make that conclusion because you saw a large number and thought "boy, that's a lot of money"?

There's no such thing as "far, far over paid", the market determines how much each job is worth, and it pays accordingly.

 

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Thousands of surgeries may be cut in Metro Vancouver, leaked paper reveals

Dix said a Vancouver Coastal Health Authority document shows it is considering chopping more than 6,000 surgeries in an effort to make up for a dramatic budgetary shortfall that could reach $200 million.

looking to close nearly a quarter of its operating rooms starting in September and to cut 6,250 surgeries, including 24 per cent of cases scheduled from September to March and 10 per cent of all medically necessary elective procedures this fiscal year.

What a clusterfvck.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
american doctors are far, far over paid. Of course Canadian doctors want to game the system so they can get paid more too.

Oh, can you please share with us your insightful analysis of the data that you used to come to the conclusion that they are "far, far over paid"? Or did you just make that conclusion because you saw a large number and thought "boy, that's a lot of money"?

There's no such thing as "far, far over paid", the market determines how much each job is worth, and it pays accordingly.

Except when corruption comes into play, which is what has happened in the US. The hospitals are charging the insurance companies more because they can, and they give the insurance company a nice kickback as well. Guess who pays for it? The people paying for health insurance.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
american doctors are far, far over paid. Of course Canadian doctors want to game the system so they can get paid more too.

Oh, can you please share with us your insightful analysis of the data that you used to come to the conclusion that they are "far, far over paid"? Or did you just make that conclusion because you saw a large number and thought "boy, that's a lot of money"?

There's no such thing as "far, far over paid", the market determines how much each job is worth, and it pays accordingly.

And the US market for doctors is badly distorted by an artificial shortage.

 

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Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
american doctors are far, far over paid. Of course Canadian doctors want to game the system so they can get paid more too.

Oh, can you please share with us your insightful analysis of the data that you used to come to the conclusion that they are "far, far over paid"? Or did you just make that conclusion because you saw a large number and thought "boy, that's a lot of money"?

There's no such thing as "far, far over paid", the market determines how much each job is worth, and it pays accordingly.

And the US market for doctors is badly distorted by an artificial shortage.

I think the same in Canada.

 

[desy]

Dr Danielle Martin followed Mr Romanow's speech by arguing that evidence has shown publicly delivered, not-for-profit healthcare to be cheaper and of a higher quality than private, for-profit care. Another advantage, she said, can be seen in the difference between administrative costs in the healthcare systems of the United States and Canada. In the US, administrative costs represent 31% of health spending; in Canada that figure is just 1.3%.

Dr Martin also argued that medicare has not only served patients well but has also been beneficial financially to physicians. In the 1970s and 80s, she said, budget cuts pushed doctors to charge patients directly for care. The Canada Health Act relieved doctors of that burden and instituted a national system that established how physicians would be paid, which in turn, Dr Martin said, led to improved collegiality among doctors because there was less inequality in pay for similar work.

But Dr Martin's goal is not simply to prevent change. She believes, like Dr Doig and Mr Romanow and many others, that medicare must adapt with the times. Dr Martin's goal is to make sure that those adaptations don't threaten the principles that made medicare so valuable to Canadians in the first place. ?A better medicare is possible,? she said.




I know a few doctors in Canada, none complain about compensation, its hrs worked and stress which as pointed out has barriers within the medical profession training, both sides.

Its imploding like most vocations due to boomer retiremnets and same said boomers now requiring more treatment in their senior years. we really need user fees to help prop the costs and to cull the unecessary visits.
My dad has 100's of thousands in the bank, but bemoans paying 15 dollars a month for his heart drugs THAT ARE KEEPING HIM ALIVE due to his lifestyle choices.
Go figure

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Skoorb
BTW, people, this is the president of the Canadian Medical Association, not just a quack who doesn't know the difference between a stitch and suture (and neither do I, maybe there isn't one, ha!).

the ama isn't a credible, unbiased source, is the cma any better?

They've certainly got a bias, as the CMA president and the people who vote him in are all MDs who naturally have some self-interest in reforms that may lead to more pay, fewer hours of work and more career flexiblity.

That said, you're still hearing the opinions of people who have been elected by ~60,000 MDs who work in this country in the current system. It's probably not correct to take their words as gospel, but they're worth paying attention to.