Canadians don't respect the 2nd Amendment

[rudeguy]

OK.

OK.

How about this; an ancient Canadian frost monster awakens from it's long slumber as you are driving into Montreal for some Cuban cigars. And, you notice it's weak point, as it emerges from the underground it was dormant for all these years. You have the chance to kill it, by shooting just ONE bullet at that weakspot... how could you NOT want to carrry a loaded firearm for that totally awesomg chance to save humanity from a mythical totally none existent threat?!

WAIT!

Is Bieber in Canada when this happens?

 

[Orignal Earl]

I should also I wouldn't want to live in a place where I have to worry about random city boys being able to draw a gun every time they got spooked

 

[Daverino]

OK.

OK.

How about this; an ancient Canadian frost monster awakens from it's long slumber as you are driving into Montreal for some Cuban cigars. And, you notice it's weak point, as it emerges from the underground it was dormant for all these years. You have the chance to kill it, by shooting just ONE bullet at that weakspot... how could you NOT want to carrry a loaded firearm for that totally awesomg chance to save humanity from a mythical totally none existent threat?!

I better have an Unkempt Harold or a Redundant Fibber on me, or I'd be screwed.

 

[TerryMathews]

I should also I wouldn't want to live in a place where I have to worry about random city boys being able to draw a gun every time they got spooked

So dont live in a city?

 

[Orignal Earl]

So dont live in a city?

Yes, I live in a city now. Probably not the size you would consider a city. More like big towns ,)
Regina may have have 10 murders a year, drunk brawls between a couple people. Estevan probably had no murders last year
Like I've said, the world you guys live in is completely foreign to me
And I don't have to worry about SA getting scared of my hoodie and shooting me, because he cant carry here

 

[Nebor]

Yes, I live in a city now. Probably not the size you would consider a city. More like big towns ,)
Regina may have have 10 murders a year, drunk brawls between a couple people. Estevan probably had no murders last year
Like I've said, the world you guys live in is completely foreign to me
And I don't have to worry about SA getting scared of my hoodie and shooting me, because he cant carry here

It looks like Plano, TX (the closest city size that came to mind when I saw Regina has about 200k population,) has half as many murders (and more people.) And the city is seemingly awash in guns, with 1:195 residents holding a concealed handgun license.

Not really a fair comparison though, Plano is an outlier in too many ways. I bet if you were to look at Arlington, TX you'd find Canada looking pretty good.

 

[Victorian Gray]

It looks like Plano, TX (the closest city size that came to mind when I saw Regina has about 200k population,) has half as many murders (and more people.) And the city is seemingly awash in guns, with 1:195 residents holding a concealed handgun license.

Not really a fair comparison though, Plano is an outlier in too many ways. I bet if you were to look at Arlington, TX you'd find Canada looking pretty good.

You just happened to pick Plano?

"Plano, a city of 278,000 that’s just outside Dallas, boasts the lowest violent crime rate of the cities we looked at and the sixth-lowest traffic fatality rate, putting it tops on our list for the second year in a row. The Las Vegas suburb of Henderson, Nev., and Honolulu come in second and third, respectively.


So what makes these metropolises oases of relative tranquility? Wealth is one key factor"

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45791562/ns/business-forbes_com/

 

[Nebor]

You just happened to pick Plano?

"Plano, a city of 278,000 that’s just outside Dallas, boasts the lowest violent crime rate of the cities we looked at and the sixth-lowest traffic fatality rate, putting it tops on our list for the second year in a row. The Las Vegas suburb of Henderson, Nev., and Honolulu come in second and third, respectively.


So what makes these metropolises oases of relative tranquility? Wealth is one key factor"

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45791562/ns/business-forbes_com/

Well I live in University Park, so we don't have the population to make a fair comparison. Off the top of my head, the only comparably sized cities in the DFW metroplex are Arlington, Plano & Irving. Arlington has 357k people and 22 murders, Plano has 272k and 5 murders, and Irving has 225k and 8 murders.

I'm guessing that Irving is probably the best comparison to Regina, as it has average income, but struggles with pockets of "inner city" violence. Regardless, it still has more people and fewer murders than Regina (and approx. 1:300 concealed handgun licenses.)

 

[Orignal Earl]

Regina is awash in guns too, Estevan even more so with no murders.
There's probably no online stats on those gun numbers though
People here tend to be pretty private about that
I have no doubt I could travel from here straight down to the Mexican border and be surrounded by like minded people
My family does it all the time, half of them are in Texas right now

Neither of these cities are like the ones though that so many posters here live in that they fear for their lives daily
Those cities only exist in like Somolia, and where the posters live in the US

 

[Newell Steamer]

WAIT!

Is Bieber in Canada when this happens?

Better yet - Bieber IS covering the weakspot! So, to get to it, you have to get through Bieber.

 

[TerryMathews]

Regina is awash in guns too, Estevan even more so with no murders.
There's probably no online stats on those gun numbers though
People here tend to be pretty private about that
I have no doubt I could travel from here straight down to the Mexican border and be surrounded by like minded people
My family does it all the time, half of them are in Texas right now

Neither of these cities are like the ones though that so many posters here live in that they fear for their lives daily
Those cities only exist in like Somolia, and where the posters live in the US

And you continue to confuse fear with preparedness. Is it intentional?

 

[Orignal Earl]

And you continue to confuse fear with preparedness. Is it intentional?

You carry because it makes you feel safer, just like your fire extinguisher does.
I get it

 

[TerryMathews]

You carry because it makes you feel safer, just like your fire extinguisher does.
I get it

No, you clearly don't.

I (sometimes) carry a firearm because I can envision needing it for my own personal protection.

You portray it as though those of us who carry are quaking in fear until we strap on a gun or two and its a blatant misrepresentation of reality.

To bring this back to the fire extinguisher analogy, the way you portray gun owners would make the equivalence:

"I could hardly sleep at night. I was waking up in cold sweats from nightmares where I was burning alive until I went and bought a fire extinguisher. Now I can sleep."

Until you can recognize a difference between logical analysis of a situation and fear of a situation there is no point in further discussing this with you.

 

[rudeguy]

No, you clearly don't.

I (sometimes) carry a firearm because I can envision needing it for my own personal protection.

You portray it as though those of us who carry are quaking in fear until we strap on a gun or two and its a blatant misrepresentation of reality.

To bring this back to the fire extinguisher analogy, the way you portray gun owners would make the equivalence:

"I could hardly sleep at night. I was waking up in cold sweats from nightmares where I was burning alive until I went and bought a fire extinguisher. Now I can sleep."

Until you can recognize a difference between logical analysis of a situation and fear of a situation there is no point in further discussing this with you.

To be fair, I get where Earl is coming from. Its a foreign concept to him. I have the same problem when dealing with racism. I realize that it exists but I don't understand how it can exist. Its just not something that makes sense to me. Same for him. He understands violence exists, that people want to defend themselves, but he doesn't understand why either thing happens.

We all do live in different worlds.

 

[TerryMathews]

To be fair, I get where Earl is coming from. Its a foreign concept to him. I have the same problem when dealing with racism. I realize that it exists but I don't understand how it can exist. Its just not something that makes sense to me. Same for him. He understands violence exists, that people want to defend themselves, but he doesn't understand why either thing happens.

We all do live in different worlds.

Which is why I was trying to work with him on the fire extinguisher analogy.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Out of curiosity, do you see the similarity here?

The larger point I'm trying to get you to see is that its totally OK for you to feel like you dont need a gun.

Its less OK for you to feel that other people dont need a gun, just like it would be inappropriate for me to sit here and say "You dont need that fire extinguisher. Its only good for one thing and do you know the odds of your house burning down? Practically non-existant."

I think you're overlooking the fact that a fire extinguisher is not a weapon, is not used for crime, runs no risk of accidentally killing people, and is actually proven to put out minor house fires.

 

[TerryMathews]

I think you're overlooking the fact that a fire extinguisher is not a weapon, is not used for crime, runs no risk of accidentally killing people, and is actually proven to put out minor house fires.

None of those things are relevant to the analogy.

And youre incorrect, CO2 extinguishers can most certainly kill.

Way to appeal to the feels though?

 

[Zxian]

None of those things are relevant to the analogy.

And youre incorrect, CO2 extinguishers can most certainly kill.

Way to appeal to the feels though?

It is relevant. You're probably not going to need your fire extinguisher to deal with "that guy" who's pulled out his fire extinguisher in a confrontation. It's kinda hard to carry under your jacket.

The fundamental difference between American and "non-American" (for lack of a better term) views on gun ownership and rights is the individual vs collective rights. Americans generally value individual liberies (freedom to), while "non-Americans" value collective liberties (freedom from). This viewpoint applies to many American vs non-American discussions (firearms, education, healthcare, etc), not to go too far OT.

Like Original Earl has said, I have never felt a fear for my life here in Canada. Only once have I ever felt uneasy walking through downtown Vancouver (including the bad parts of the Downtown East Side - the druggie area of town), and I only know of one person who's ever been mugged. Our present situation north of the border means that there's little reason to to carry a gun. The threat of personal harm simply doesn't exist to the same level as it does (or you perceive it to) south of the border. This obviously varies from location to location, but in general, there's simply less crime here. For me, the potential for irresponsible gun owners is too high to allow everyone access to firearms. Yes, this is going to sound like the bleeding heart argument, but think of all the accidental injuries and deaths related to firearms in the US. Those are all the irresponsible people who still have the same rights as some of you, the responsible gun owners, and IMO are abusing those rights.

I'm writing this from a background of having firearms in the house. I have my firearms certification and hunters card. I've shot plenty of wildlife, and with a bit of paperwork, I could easily have my PAL (Possession and Acquisition License - necessary for owning firearms and purchasing ammunition). I understand that there are recreational uses for firearms, and I'll fully support those, but in my opinion, needing a gun because others might have one is a sad situation to be in. I'm not saying that the answer is simply removing the guns (because that's just not going to fly), but instead remove the need to have one in the first place. Again, I'll go back to my original point - I haven't ever felt fear for my life here in Vancouver, even in the "scary" parts of town.

 

[TerryMathews]

It is relevant. You're probably not going to need your fire extinguisher to deal with "that guy" who's pulled out his fire extinguisher in a confrontation. It's kinda hard to carry under your jacket.

The fundamental difference between American and "non-American" (for lack of a better term) views on gun ownership and rights is the individual vs collective rights. Americans generally value individual liberies (freedom to), while "non-Americans" value collective liberties (freedom from). This viewpoint applies to many American vs non-American discussions (firearms, education, healthcare, etc), not to go too far OT.

Like Original Earl has said, I have never felt a fear for my life here in Canada. Only once have I ever felt uneasy walking through downtown Vancouver (including the bad parts of the Downtown East Side - the druggie area of town), and I only know of one person who's ever been mugged. Our present situation north of the border means that there's little reason to to carry a gun. The threat of personal harm simply doesn't exist to the same level as it does (or you perceive it to) south of the border. This obviously varies from location to location, but in general, there's simply less crime here. For me, the potential for irresponsible gun owners is too high to allow everyone access to firearms. Yes, this is going to sound like the bleeding heart argument, but think of all the accidental injuries and deaths related to firearms in the US. Those are all the irresponsible people who still have the same rights as some of you, the responsible gun owners, and IMO are abusing those rights.

I'm writing this from a background of having firearms in the house. I have my firearms certification and hunters card. I've shot plenty of wildlife, and with a bit of paperwork, I could easily have my PAL (Possession and Acquisition License - necessary for owning firearms and purchasing ammunition). I understand that there are recreational uses for firearms, and I'll fully support those, but in my opinion, needing a gun because others might have one is a sad situation to be in. I'm not saying that the answer is simply removing the guns (because that's just not going to fly), but instead remove the need to have one in the first place. Again, I'll go back to my original point - I haven't ever felt fear for my life here in Vancouver, even in the "scary" parts of town.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how analogies work.

To the rest of your post, you freely admit the situation in Canada is different than here. Yet you expect life to work here like it does there?

 

[Orignal Earl]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how analogies work.

To the rest of your post, you freely admit the situation in Canada is different than here. Yet you expect life to work here like it does there?

When I compare Somolia to the US, I am trying to get you to look and think about what you are saying.
We all hear the stories of 20 murders in Detroit on the weekend, and think OMG what a shithole..how can any sane person live there
Then I turn around and yak to buddy who has lived there the last 20 years, and doesn't fear for his life at all
He has never witnessed any violence outside of a hockey rink

I think people tend to make the world a lot smaller and horrible when all they do is focus on the bad news

The bad places are never where we live for most of us, it's always the next town over

 

[TerryMathews]

When I compare Somolia to the US, I am trying to get you to look and think about what you are saying.
We all hear the stories of 20 murders in Detroit on the weekend, and think OMG what a shithole..how can any sane person live there
Then I turn around and yak to buddy who has lived there the last 20 years, and doesn't fear for his life at all
He has never witnessed any violence outside of a hockey rink

I think people tend to make the world a lot smaller and horrible when all they do is focus on the bad news

The bad places are never where we live for most of us, it's always the next town over

I linked you a story (that you refused to read...) that happened in my back yard. Last week.

Its great that you live in a place where love thy neighbor works. I live in a place where gangbangers train their pit bulls to maul a woman to death because they dont like her.

I fail to see how she would be worse off if she was concealing a firearm.

 

[Zxian]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how analogies work.

To the rest of your post, you freely admit the situation in Canada is different than here. Yet you expect life to work here like it does there?

I do understand how analogies work. You're comparing preparation against accidents (such as fires) to protection from people. Individuals who irresponsibly carry firearms are not accidents - they're decisions. It might not be your decision, per se, but it's someone's.

I never suggested that the US works the same as Canada. I clearly said in my post that I think the best solution to reduce gun violence and accidents is to reduce the perception of need for one. You feel that you need one because you might find yourself in a confrontation. Why is that confrontation even a possibility? What is the root cause?

The part that's difficult to discuss with American gun owners (and yes, I'm generalizing a bit) is that many fail to see guns as weapons when comparing them to other methods of "preparation". Fire extinguishers are preparation against accidental fires. Floatation devices are protection from accidental drowning. Airbags are protection from accidental collisions. Guns are apparently protection against guns. See the difference?

 

[TerryMathews]

Guns are apparently protection against guns. See the difference?

They are protection against more than guns.

The only thing I can assume is that those of you who have this faith in gun control dont read anything that disagrees with your preconceived notions.

 

[Zxian]

They are protection against more than guns.

The only thing I can assume is that those of you who have this faith in gun control dont read anything that disagrees with your preconceived notions.

Can you give me a reasonable day-to-day example of how guns protect you in an urban environment from something that isn't another violent human being? You said yourself that you can envision a scenario where you need it for your personal protection (I'm assuming from an individual). All of the other forms of protection or prevention that people often mention in comparison are accidental in nature and not because of someone's malicious intent.

Like I said, I'm all for gun ownership for recreational purposes, but I find it depressing that people in a country like America feel the need to carry for personal protection. It shows a fundamental lacking in the systems and programs that exist elsewhere to prevent this need (but then again, most of those systems and programs are more left-wing and "big evil government" than many Americans are willing to swallow). There are examples of drastic measures taken in other countries to curb gun violence, but America seems reluctant to even consider anything reasonable. I think it's too ingrained in American culture to change over the short term.

 

[TerryMathews]

Can you give me a reasonable day-to-day example of how guns protect you in an urban environment from something that isn't another violent human being? You said yourself that you can envision a scenario where you need it for your personal protection (I'm assuming from an individual). All of the other forms of protection or prevention that people often mention in comparison are accidental in nature and not because of someone's malicious intent.

Like I said, I'm all for gun ownership for recreational purposes, but I find it depressing that people in a country like America feel the need to carry for personal protection. It shows a fundamental lacking in the systems and programs that exist elsewhere to prevent this need (but then again, most of those systems and programs are more left-wing and "big evil government" than many Americans are willing to swallow). There are examples of drastic measures taken in other countries to curb gun violence, but America seems reluctant to even consider anything reasonable. I think it's too ingrained in American culture to change over the short term.

Second time this thread ive linked it. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014...-by-dogs-was-animal-lover/UPI-49131391967191/